GUNS IN THE NEWS - June 23, 2004

[CO Liberal]

Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.

3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.

4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.

6 - The person adding a news story to the "GITN" thread is allowed (and encouraged) to comment on that story, indicating their position on the topic being discussed. These comments can appear either at the beginning or end of the post; if possible, place comments in a different typeface so readers can separate the comments from the story. Others who wish to comment on a posted story can do so by replying to that story; this allows other readers to follow the comments by scrolling through the subthread.

7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any message that appears to be a personal attack against another DU-er or a violation of any other DU rule will be reported to the moderators.

8 - If you object to these guidelines (or the basic concept of the "Guns In The News" thread), do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[CO Liberal]

1. 14-Year-Old Is Charged With Second Slaying In Ohio

Gee, I wonder if this kid subscribes to that wonder youth magazine put out by the Nuts Ruining America... - Wayne

* * * * *

14-Year-Old Is Charged With Second Slaying In Ohio

POSTED: 9:32 am EDT June 23, 2004

CINCINNATI -- A 14-year-old boy awaiting trial for murder has been charged with a second slaying.

The teenager, who was arrested this month, was charged Tuesday in a May 17 shooting death. He was charged earlier in a May 13 murder.

"It's unbelievable. It's a sad commentary on the state of our community," Hamilton County Prosecutor Mike Allen said.

The victims, George Vance, 27, and David Hutchinson, 20, also had been robbed, Allen said.

<more>

http://www.wftv.com/newsofthestrange/3450748/detail.html

[Romulus]

17. how many baseball-bat muderers were in little league?!? (eom)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CO Liberal]

2. UPDATE - Myrtle Beach man arrested in shooting (SC)

Continuing a story posted yesterday. - Wayne

PS to Mods - I know we normally limit these to four paragraphs, but I included five to include what I considered to be vital information.

* * * * *

Myrtle Beach man arrested in shooting

MYRTLE BEACH — A Myrtle Beach man has been arrested for the fatal shooting of a Loris man last weekend.

William Danyell Finkley, 21, was arrested shortly after midnight Monday morning and charged with the Saturday morning shooting of Tyrone Gore, 30.

Finkley had been arrested for murder in the death of his girlfriend, Vanessa Nelson, 18, in March 2002. Finkley was out on $50,000 bail in Nelson’s death when Gore was killed, police said.

Finkley’s attorney, Morgan Martin, argued in 2002 that Gore did not have a violent past and did not have the money to flee Myrtle Beach.

“It is very disturbing how he is able to kill someone and be out, just because his lawyer said he doesn’t have a violent history,” said Kamandi Montgomery, Gore’s brother. “I could have my brother, and his two kids could have their father.”

<more>

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/local/8988948.htm

[CO Liberal]

3. Witness details clinic shooting (CA)

AS far as I'm concerned, the only thing worse than a militant pro-lifer is a militant pro-lifer with a gun. - Wayne

* * * * *

Witness details clinic shooting

Jeffrey FitzHenry ordered to trial in shooting that left teenager paralyzed

By Christine Mahr
The Desert Sun
June 23, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LARSON JUSTICE CENTER -- A 17-year-old girl who accompanied a teenager to a Palm Desert abortion clinic where she was shot described the shooting and the moments leading up to it Tuesday in court.

The witness, who was only identified as Linda H., testified at the preliminary hearing of Jeffrey Cameron FitzHenry.

FitzHenry, 17, is accused of trying to kill a 16-year-old girl identified as Sara S. The April 29 shooting left the girl who was shot a quadriplegic.

In the moments before the shooting, FitzHenry threatened Sara S., the witness testified. "He said she knew what her consequences would be."

<more>

http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/local/20040623020847.shtml

[CO Liberal]

4. Shooting, head-on crash, carjacking on Thomas (AZ)

Oh, yeah - Arizona has fairly lax gun laws, doesn't it? - Wayne

* * * * *

Shooting, head-on crash, carjacking on Thomas

The Arizona Republic
Jun. 23, 2004 12:00 AM

A bizarre string of events was triggered Tuesday in what police described as a road-rage shooting, head-on collision and carjacking, all on a busy west Phoenix street.

The incident began about 4:30 p.m. near the 2900 block of West Thomas Road when a worker for Cox Communications was shot in the left shoulder by another motorist.

The Cox employee had spotted the driver brandishing a weapon and was trying to phone police, said Sgt. Manuel Cota, a crime-scene supervisor. The shooter's Honda then plowed into the front of an Acura headed east, Cota said.

The shooter then hijacked an SUV after forcing the driver out, Cota said. The man was still at large late Tuesday.

<more>

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0623rage23.html

[CO Liberal]

5. Attorney challenges evidence in shooting case (PA)

Yet another on of those "law-abiding gun owners" we don't have to worry about. - Wayne

* * * * *

Attorney challenges evidence in shooting case

By: CARL HESSLER JR. , For The Times Herald 06/22/2004

COURTHOUSE - A Chester County man accused of shooting his neighbor in the abdomen at a Home Depot store challenged in court papers Tuesday the legality of several pieces of prosecutorial evidence.

<snip>

Costantini, 76, of the 1600 block of Knob Lane, in the Valley Forge section of Schuylkill Township, has pleaded not guilty to charges of attempted homicide, aggravated assault, recklessly endangering others and possessing an instrument of crime in connection with the February incident.

The charges stem from a Feb. 5 shooting at the Home Depot on West DeKalb Pike in King of Prussia, during which Douglas Lawson, Costantini's 42-year-old neighbor, was injured.

Costantini and Lawson had been embroiled in a dispute since March 2003 about an addition that Lawson wanted to build to his home. The pair crossed paths at 10 a.m. at the Home Depot, and a verbal confrontation ensued. The altercation escalated, with Costantini brandishing a semiautomatic handgun from the waistband of his pants and shooting Lawson, detectives said.

<more>

http://www.timesherald.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12058745&BRD=1672&PAG=461&dept_id=33380&rfi=6

[PopeyeII]

6. More than three million illegal and "handmade" firearms

Commentary: I remember the news from the 60's. Home made guns, zip guns were popular and common amoungst criminals. Criminals will always find a way................. I wonder if we should ban/register drill presses and lathes?



http://allafrica.com/stories/200406220337.html

Illegal Guns Firing Up Crime, Says Nqakula


Cape Argus (Cape Town)

June 22, 2004
Posted to the web June 22, 2004

Norman Joseph

More than three million illegal and handmade firearms in circulation in South Africa
are linked to serious crimes. Another two million guns are legally owned. And the
battle to contain the proliferation is constant. Since April last year more than 25 000
firearms have been confiscated and some 5 000 people arrested.

[iverglas]

8. verrrry interesting

Too bad there wasn't a breakdown of those three million "illegal and handmade firearms" into which was which. Without it, we don't know too much.

Some more interesting bits:

"We want to see who we can allow to possess firearms, and people must prove their competency," he said.

Some legal gun owners, <Safety and Security Minister Charles> Nqakula said, could not even handle their own firearms. "You are safer if you do not have a firearm in your home."

He said police had appointed a dedicated group of officers to deal with applications "so that we can have control of the possession of firearms".

Nqakula said he would give more detail about the firearms control legislation during his budget speech today.

He said illegal firearms were mainly used in murders and in domestic violence cases.

Many illegal firearms were either stolen from legal owners, or were lost by their owners.

They ended up being used in hijackings, murders, armed robberies and rapes.

Damn. Firearms control, initiated by the majority Black African government in a majority Black African state.

Shouldn't somebody tell those people that firearms control is racist??

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

40. my that was cute

You're racist, you seem to have a problem w/black

rifles.

Too bad I don't know what it was supposedly supposed to mean.


So long, it's been good to know you
So long, it's been good to know you
So long, it's been good to know you
There's a mighty big war that's got to be won
And we'll get back together again.

Or not.

Just my little spontaneous tribute to Woody Guthrie.

[PopeyeII]

7. Proper training key if youths use guns

They're not toys. Education not legislation!

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/news/local/8977002.htm

Air gun safety tips:

Always keep barrel of the gun pointed in a safe direction.

Treat every gun as if it was loaded.

Only load or cock a gun when you are ready to shoot.

Check your target and beyond it to make sure nobody will be struck.

Anyone shooting or near a shooter should wear protective eyewear.

[CO Liberal]

9. Even Better

Keep kids and guns as far apart as possible.

[Retired AF Dem]

10. Not a great idea

then you end up with 17yr olds shooting themselves in the head since they never were taught basic gun safety rules.

[CO Liberal]

11. No

That only happens if they're handed loaded handguns by assholes.

[Retired AF Dem]

13. I'm sure that many more kids have not shot themselves with loaded

handguns given to them by assholes. Either one they werent idiots or 2.they knew basic gun safety rules.

[CO Liberal]

14. Kids and Guns is a Recipe for Tragedy

It's better to keep them separated, IMHO.

[Retired AF Dem]

15. So it is better not to teach kids about anything

safe sex, drug use, cigarettes, alcohol, defensive driving, basic gun safety. It all goes hand in hand. Going trough life with one's head in the sand does not lead to a safer life.

[CO Liberal]

16. And Going Through Life Thinking Guns Are The Answer to Everything.....

...is just plain stupid, IMHO.

[RoeBear]

20. Yeah...

..that's what gun eduacation is all about. They just drill it into kids heads that guns are the answer to all problems. Love life sucks? Buy a gun. Car broke down? Buy a gun.

How about this? Don't go through life thinking that guns are the cause of all problems. Mmmkay?

[Retired AF Dem]

23. I don't recall ever saying that

Life is dangerous, none of us will get out of it alive, the best thing to do is learn how to be safe with all the dangerous hazards we will meet everyday.

[CO Liberal]

24. And In Many Cases....

...the way to be safest is to avoid the dangerous hazards.

Like guns.

[Retired AF Dem]

26. That is not possible

some people need to learn defensive driving. That is cold and I apologize for it, but it is a fact of life.

[FatSlob]

27. An inanimate object is a hazard?

Get real.

[CO Liberal]

28. Damn Right an Inanimate Object Can Be a Hazard

For example...

o An unfenced swimming pool can be a drowning hazard.

o A balcony with a loose railing can be a falling hazard.

o And an improperly used gun can be a shooting hazard.

[FatSlob]

29. Point taken.

What about a properly used gun? Is it a hazard? Mine is properly used and is a hazard to criminals. Are you opposed to making it more difficult for criminals to injure or kill me and my family?

[CO Liberal]

30. No

Are you opposed to making it more difficult for criminals to injure or kill me and my family?

That should be made more difficuly by keeping guns out of the wrong hands. That's what "reasonable gun control" is all about. Not confiscating guns - just keeping guns away from those who should not have them.

[FatSlob]

32. Edited out because COLib changed his answer.

[CO Liberal]

34. Because I Misinterpreted Your Question....

...and fixed it.

[FatSlob]

35. Good thing you caught yourself.

I thought you were nuts for a moment! What part of Colorado are you in? I'm driving through to Aspen this summer.

[CO Liberal]

37. Southern Colorado

I live in Pueblo West and work in Colorado Springs.

[FatSlob]

39. Not too close is it?

I would have loved to buy you a beer. Anybody who has gotten in as many wrecks as you, and not turn into an asshole is OK in my book.

[CO Liberal]

41. Thanks For the Offer

Unfortunately, I can't drink any more, due to the medications I'm taking for my back.

[FatSlob]

43. Damn. That sucks.

No beer?

[CO Liberal]

44. Nope.

Actually, I stopped drinking around 12 years ago. Not because I had to - just because it lost its appeal to me. Don't even miss it now.

[FatSlob]

45. The appeal is the yumminess of a fine beer.

Getting drunk is no fun, esp. in the morning!

[library_max]

50. Can you guarantee that your gun will never fall into criminal hands?

[RoeBear]

49. Or...

...electricity

[PopeyeII]

22. Read closer

Don't change the subject. The article was not about handguns, it was about safety and training.

[CO Liberal]

25. Don't Tell Me What To Do

OK????

[PopeyeII]

33. Oh??

You most certainly enjoy telling others how to run their lives.

Does anyone see it differently?

[CO Liberal]

38. I Don't Tell Anyone How to Live

I simply point out that some people out there seem to need to do something about their gun lust.

[PopeyeII]

42. I'll take care of my problem then.

I'll send you all my hardware and supplies to keep them off my mind.

[CO Liberal]

12. I've Yet to See Hardly Anything From Your Side.....

...that could even remotely be considered a "good idea".

[PopeyeII]

21. I guess we're even.

We've heard no good ideas from your point of view either.

[RoeBear]

19. Silly comment...

...and very damaging concept for our party. Kids can hunt with a shotgun or 22 when they are 12 years old in Michigan, younger in other states. You are suggesting alienating all those dads and future voters.

[CO Liberal]

31. I Think Those Dads Should Do Something More Constructive With their Kids

Anything.....

[PopeyeII]

46. Turn in your guns to the police?

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20040622%2F2320128446.htm&sc=1110

$3M in Drugs Missing From Memphis Police
By MATT GOURAS

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - Nearly $3 million in drugs, $147,000 in cash and
"dozens of guns" went missing from the evidence room at the Memphis police
department, according to audit findings released Tuesday.

The state audit was prepared to help federal authorities in a case that has already
led to charges against 16 people, including two civilian employees of the
department. No police officers have been charged.

[CO Liberal]

47. Please Re-Read Guidline #4

4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

[PopeyeII]

48. Rules are for conformist.

I'm a non conformist, that's how the system gets changed.

[CO Liberal]

51. It Can Also Result in Anarchy

This has become a standard pro-gunner ploy - try to create turmoil in the Guns In The News threads, in the hope that people like me and MrBenchley will stop posting them. It hasn't worked yet, and it still won't work.

If you don't want to follow the voluntary guidelines, do yourself and everyone else a favor and stay out of the GITN threads.

[library_max]

52. You're not getting it.

The rules are for you, not for them. That way, you have to fairly post actual stories in their original words, while they can spin the stories they find to suit their own purposes. That's the benefit of being that kind of "nonconformist" - cheating.

[PopeyeII]

54. Please explain something to me then.

From the list of rules above:

"Please try to adhere to the following "voluntary" guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:"

What is the exact definition of "voluntary"?

[CO Liberal]

60. Since I'm Not a DU Administrator....

...I cannot make rules for this board. But I can establish guidelines.

When people follow the guidelines, we have some very good discussions on these GITN threads. But when someone like you starts to cause trouble, flamefests start.

Just MHO.

[PopeyeII]

55. On creating turmoil and other things posted here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=66587

It seems you reinforce your argument with vulgarity and volume rather than fact and logic.

[CO Liberal]

56. And It Seems to Me.....

...that you're not posting to advance discussions - only to start arguments.

[PopeyeII]

57. Observation

You're usually one of the first to loose his temper and resort to vulgarity.

[iverglas]

58. I think you're confused

to CO Liberal:
You're usually one of the first to loose his temper and resort to vulgarity.

Eh? Perhaps you're thinking of me?

I mean, I have never in fact lost my temper while reading/writing on an internet discussion board. (What kind of loon would actually do that? How could anybody possibly tell, anyway?) But I'm fond of a good vulgarity or two, 'tis true.

CO Liberal, on the other hand, why he's just blissed out most of the time, it seems to me.

[CO Liberal]

59. I Think He's Confused As Well

I think he's confusing me with MrBenchley. While we share similar beliefs regarding guns, Bench uses language that's a tad saltier than mine.

However, I do not hesitate to call an asshole an asshole.....

[slackmaster]

53. Worcester Man Sentenced on Federal Gun Charges - MA

I like this story. It's already illegal for certain classes of people to possess a firearm, then by all means that law ought to be strictly enforced before we talk about imposing any additional restrictions on gun ownership or use. The Gun Control Act of 1968 is good law and enforcement should be a high priority.

WORCESTER, Mass., June 22 /PRNewswire/ -- A Worcester man was sentenced late yesterday in federal court on federal firearms charges. United States Attorney Michael J. Sullivan and William J. Hoover, Special Agent in Charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in New England, announced that WILLIAM BARBOZA, age 21, formerly of 76 Franklin Street, Worcester, Massachusetts, was sentenced by U.S. District Judge
Nathaniel M. Gorton to 3 years and 1 month in prison, to be followed by 3 years of supervised release, for being a felon in possession of a firearm, and making a false statement in connection with the acquisition of a firearm and ammunition.

At an earlier plea hearing, the prosecutor told the Court that, had the case proceeded to trial, the Government's evidence would have proven that on September 17, 2002, BARBOZA, a convicted felon, went to the Boston Gun Range, located in Worcester, for the purpose of honing his shooting skills for potential future use. The Boston Gun Range is a commercial gun range and licensed dealer of firearms and ammunition. In order to obtain possession of a firearm and ammunition, BARBOZA falsely stated to employees of the gun range
that he had never been convicted of a crime punishable by law for more than one year. As a result of his false statement, BARBOZA was able to purchase ammunition, obtain possession of a Glock 9mm pistol and practice shooting the Glock at the range.

BARBOZA had previously been convicted for distribution of heroin. Federal law prohibits individuals previously convicted of a federal or state felony from possessing a firearm or ammunition.

For complete article please see:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/06-22-2004/0002198093&EDATE=

[library_max]

61. I'm with you. I also like that aspect of the story.

I opened the link and read the whole story. I wasn't able to find anything that explained exactly how they caught this guy - how they identified him (eventually) as a felon and someone who had no right to possess a gun.

That's my concern, that there's no good mechanism for enforcing such laws. The sentence that chilled me was this one: "As a result of his false statement, BARBOZA was able to purchase ammunition, obtain possession of a Glock 9mm pistol and practice shooting the Glock at the range."

[JayS]

62. There's that pesky...

...NRA program again. :)




MASSACHUSETTS PHONE FAX
Michael J. Sullivan, USA*
1 Courthouse Way, John Joseph Moakley Courthouse, Boston 02210
Web Site | Press Releases
[phone] [phone]
1550 Main Street, U.S. Courthouse, Room 310, Springfield 01103 [phone] [phone]
Donohue Federal Building, 595 Main Street, Room 206, Worcester 01608 [phone] [phone]

[JayS]

63. Right again...

[JayS]

64. Cough