GUNS IN THE NEWS--August 5, 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
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[MrBenchley]

1. NRA Rank and File Not Toeing [GOP] Party Line

"Washington, D.C. - Yesterday in Greenberg, Ohio Thomas R. Michalow, a member of the National Rifle Association who helped organize a group of sportsmen for Kerry had an important message for the NRA.
"We're tired of the NRA telling us to vote for guys who send our jobs overseas," Michalow noted that when gun owners lose their job, often the first thing they must do is sell their guns to make ends meet.
"You can't eat your gun," Michalow said. "

http://www.democrats.org/news/200408020004.html

[CO Liberal]

6. I've Always Said My Problem Is With the NRA Leadership

Not the rank-and-file members. Unless they blindly do whatever their asshole leaders (such as LaPierre and Nugent) tell them to do.

[iverglas]

9. okay, here y'all go -- My Mum Meets the NRAer

Last month, my southern-Ontario mother (in her early 70s) visited my Montreal brother. Her first day there was, of course, the hottest and humidest of the year so far. They decided to take a 2-hour cruise/tour around the island.

They were early, so they got the water-side seats at a table for 4 on the upper deck. But it got crowded, so when my mum saw a retired-looking couple looking for seats, she stood up to move beside my brother, and offered them that side of the table, and they thanked her very much.

My mum sat down, and found herself looking at a grey-haired white woman in an NRA ballcap. She groaned, to herself. But she's a polite Canadian, and she has Republican American Cousins so she's used to the breed, and she knew that my lefter-than-thou brother can be a polite Canadian when called for and probably wouldn't need kicking under the table. So they passed the time chatting amiably, with my brother answering questions about Montreal for the couple (who turned out to own a ranch in California) and volunteering info about the sights that the guide didn't cover. (The couple was impressed that the guide's patter was in not only English and French, but also Spanish.)

Of course, my bro also played them a bit, like when he remarked, in a neighbourly fashion, how well their ex-President had looked on TV, and how well his book was selling ... to which the man hissed and said that he (Clinton) wasn't getting any of his money. My brother just acted like the knowledgeable and committed Canadian he is, making no direct comment on anything in particular, and by the end of the tour, everybody was on very friendly terms, and also had no doubt where everybody else stood on the issues of the day.

So anyhow, when my mum fishished recounting the tale to me, she said something like "whew, the NRA, can you imagine", and I said "well, you know, I guess some of the members are just regular folks, some of them joined a long time ago" ... and she said --



"Yes, I guess not everybody in the NRA just wants to shoot other people."



Hahaha. That's quite the image they've got themselves, I'd say. ;)

[MrBenchley]

10. You will notice that in 2000

the NRA couldn't actually come out and endorse Dumbya, because so many voters think the group is so disgraceful...so they had to hide their support as much as they could.

This time around they're going through the same fiction...while practically foaming at the mouth against Kerry....

[RoeBear]

13. Honest question...

...did Canadians generally like Clinton? I'm sure they like him alot more than Bush, but at the time he was President was he respected up North?

[iverglas]

17. aaaaargh

Not you. Netscape. And the Clinton Presidential Center or some damned site, which just crashed it. My warm feelings for Bill Clinton just dropped a notch. And I have to write my post again.

did Canadians generally like Clinton? I'm sure they like him alot more than Bush, but at the time he was President was he respected up North?

Absolutely. He was regarded as normal, and smart (we tend to put a decent bit of weight on smart, or at least to have low tolerance thresholds for stupid), and generally close to Canadian social and political values.

He was perceived as being far closer to Canadian values than something like a Reagan or Bush Sr., of course. Where the despised Brian Mulroney was both as un-Canadian as they come and a suck-up pal of Reagan's, Chrétien and Clinton were genuine friends, golf buddies, I believe. Chrétien is absolutely no slouch in the brains dept., and even decently "liberal" in the politics dept., so this does show relatively good taste on Clinton's part.

Now, us over more on the left than a Liberal up here were far from impressed by crap like his "welfare reform", and his shilly-shallying on gay men & lesbians in the military. But then I've never voted for any of my own PMs, either. You take what you can get. I'd take Chrétien over Mulroney and Clinton over Bush, and by a long shot in both cases.

Clinton would not have "forgotten" to thank us for what we did on 9/11 and the days after, or used some lame mad-cow excuse to punish us for not doing what we were told re Iraq, or thought that killing a few of our soldiers could be shrugged off without a notice. Clinton was respectful of, and knowledgeable about, yr biggest trading partner and best ally. Us. Part of his decent respect for and knowledge of the rest of the world in general, but he did seem to acknowledge and believe in that special relationship.

We wouldn't take quite that "European" approach to his sexual antics in office, which I personally found disgusting and despicable and which affected my regard for him as a leader (but probably not as much as welfare reform did). We're North American feminists up here, and we don't consider such antics to be charming boyish peccadilloes; and we're not jaded about corruption (which is what that behaviour was) on the part of the powerful. But we don't go into a fundie flap about it, either.

Anyhow, I'd found a reference to a speech of Clinton's in Canada, on a site I wanted a better alternative to, but the official site crashed me, so here's the secondary one:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/oct1999/can-o12.shtml

At the opening of the United States' new Ottawa embassy last Friday, Clinton voiced support for a "strong, united and democratic Canada." Then, in an address to a Canadian government-sponsored symposium on federalism held at Mont Tremblant, Quebec, the US president touted the Canadian federal state as an example to the world: "For two centuries you have shown the world how people of different cultures can live together in peace, prosperity and mutual respect, in a country where human differences are democratically expressed, not forcefully repressed."

Clinton's speech, which closed the International Conference on Federalism, was widely interpreted as a strong rebuff to Quebec's ruling provincial party, the Parti Québécois (PQ), which had sought to use the conference to make the case for Quebec independence. Calling for national minorities thinking of independence to ask “serious questions,” Clinton delivered an unmistakable message to Quebec.

Before pursuing secession, said Clinton, a people should ask, "Is there an abuse of human rights? Is there a way people can get along if they come from different heritages? Are minority rights as well as majority rights respected?... How are we going to cooperate with our neighbors; is it going to be better or worse if we are independent or if we have a federalist system?"

Those are the words of a knowledgeable and interested person. What's not to like? ;) (Mind you, that embassy is a monstrosity and I won't say what a lot of people hereabouts think should be done to it.)

I wanted to read that speech; if you're brave, here's the link:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/oct1999/can-o12.shtml

This seems to be another one, but I'm going to post first and click later:
http://clinton4.nara.gov/WH/New/html/19991008_2.html

Clinton is a founding member of the Club of Madrid, which is also a project of our ex-PM Kim Campbell, and that too speaks well of him:
http://www.clubmadrid.org
Many ex-politicians seem to do better things in their afterlives.

Now, keep in mind that I live with one of Clinton's biggest fans, who regards the "bridge to the 21st century" speech as one of the greatest pieces of oratory of all time.

Trying to find some source for a survey or something of Canadian's opinion of Clinton, to compare to USAmericans' opinions, such as this:

http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSClinton/sep13_poll.html

Is your opinion of Bill Clinton favorable or not favorable? Favorable 39 percent, unfavorable 47 percent -- CBS.

but to no avail. There's really no way that Canadian opinion would have reflected USAmerican opinion at the time, though.

If you haven't read this about Canadians' opinion of Bush --
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics/article.jsp?content=20040209_74911_74911
http://www.macleans.ca/switchboard/article.jsp?content=20040206_094416_5736
-- enjoy. (There are some pretty funny poll responses at that second link.)

[RoeBear]

18. Normal is...

...a good start. Maybe we can get back to normal after November.

[MrBenchley]

2. Vote your job first, Building Trades members urged

Sounds like the "right wing gun nuts worst nightmare" isn't "liberals with guns," but rational argument...

"EVELETH — In this fall’s elections, union members need to make one thing their priority – their jobs.
That’s the message Building Trades delegates heard repeatedly last week at their annual state convention.
Right-wing politicians “want you to believe it’s more important to have a gun in your hand that a paycheck in your pocket,” said state Rep. Mike Nelson, a union Carpenter. “They want to divide us against each other, pick us off into little groups.”
When sizing up the issues and candidates – whether for the White House, the U.S. House or the Minnesota House – union members instead need to ask: “Does it affect my job? My family? My health care? My pension?” Tomassoni said. “It’s about your job. That’s what people need to start thinking about.” "

http://www.workdayminnesota.org/view_article.php?id=1c33a903c00ca10bc35b3925e8e13f93

[MrBenchley]

3. Mother Here Charged In Shooting Of Daughter (TN)

Another family made safer with guns...

"The mother of a 9-year-old girl who was shot at her residence on Sunday night was charged on Monday with felony reckless endangerment.
Amy Jean Davis, 31, of 110 Tob Cooter Lane, was charged by Sheriff’s Detective Sgt. Jeff Morgan in connection with the wounding of Mary Ann “Emmaline” Brooks, according to a warrant on file at the Sheriff's Department this morning.
On Monday, County Sheriff Steve Burns said investigating officers believe that Mary Ann “Emmaline” Brooks was struck by one of several shots allegedly fired by Amy Davis from a .25-caliber handgun during an argument with a man.
The bullet that struck the child apparently penetrated a wall and hit her in the side as she lay on her bed watching television shortly before 11 p.m. Sunday. "

http://www.greene.xtn.net/index.php?table=news&template=news.view.subscriber&newsid=113473

[library_max]

20. Hey, now, let's be fair.

I'm sure the same thing would have happened if Mrs. Davis had been waving a knife around.

[MrBenchley]

4. Man killed in Summerton shooting (SC)

"Kelvin Keith Wells, 20, was killed Tuesday afternoon by a man he had been looking for earlier in the day, Chief Deputy Joe Bradham said.
The incident began when Wells and another man went looking for 31-year-old Charles Marrow, Bradham said.
Marrow wasn't home, but when he found out the men were looking for him, he grabbed a gun and went looking for the pair, Bradham said.
They ran into each other on the street and began to argue. Wells shot out the tire on Marrow's car, then Marrow shot Wells several times, Bradham said."

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040804/APN/408040773

[MrBenchley]

5. Police say fire at gun shop set intentionally, victim identified (MI)

"A fire that destroyed a gun shop in Inkster was set intentionally, police said Wednesday.
The body of Clyde Alexander, 54, a co-owner of the family gun shop, was found inside the burned shop Tuesday, said Cmdr. Gregory Hill of the Inkster Police.
Investigators now are digging through the rubble for store records to see if any guns are missing, Hill said.
The fire was set in the office part of the building, according to preliminary findings, but investigators have not yet determined what substance was used as accelerator. "

http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20999_20040804.htm

[MrBenchley]

7. Police: Fight Over Scooter May Have Led To Shooting (FL)

"WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- West Palm Beach police are now saying that the fatal shooting of a 16-year-old girl now looks like it resulted from an argument over a scooter.
Two young men, 18-year-old Charles Williams and 17-year-old James Randall, are being held without bail in the Palm Beach County Jail on a charge of first-degree murder and three counts of aggravated battery each.
Relatives of Brooks who heard the latest details after the second suspect's arrest struggled to understand how a teen quarrel left her dying in the street.
The victim and a group of friends and relatives hanging out on the corner wanted to a ride, but were told no when they asked. An argument followed and then shortly afterward, the shooting."

http://www.thewpbfchannel.com/news/3619593/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

8. Investigation of gunshot on highway at a 'standstill' (OK)

registration required
"McALESTER, Okla. - Authorities investigating whether a bullet that shattered two windows on a motorist's minivan was stray gunfire or a planned sniper shot are at a "standstill," Pittsburg County Undersheriff Richard Sexton said Wednesday.
Doug Rendleman of Bluffton, Mo., was driving his GMC Safari minivan south on U.S. Highway 69 in McAlester on July 29 when the bullet shattered his front passenger window then the driver's window.
Rendleman, who suffered several small cuts, stopped his car on the side of the road before calling police.
Sexton said investigators had not yet determined if the gunfire was simply a stray bullet or a planned attack similar to the sniper who fired at Ohio motorists for several months."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/9321163.htm

[MrBenchley]

11. Former travel show host injured in Florida cemetery shooting

"SARASOTA, Fla. A longtime T-V travel show host is in intensive care at a hospital in St. Petersburg, Florida, after being shot near a cemetery where he was visiting his wife's grave.
Officials say Gunther Less has a gunshot wound to the arm. He was the former host and producer of the show "Journey to Adventure."
Police say Less encountered a groundskeeper and the two men got into the former host's car. That's where the 83-year-old was shot.
Police say the groundskeeper then got out of the car and killed himself."

http://www.whbf.com/Global/story.asp?S=2135497

[MrBenchley]

12. 2nd teen dies after double shooting (KY)

"Thomas Woodrum, 18, died early Thursday from injuries sustained in a Wednesday morning shooting that also killed David Nolan, 17, of Lexington.
Police said they are investigating Nolan’s death as a suicide. The two were found at Nolan’s house on Sutton Place.
Woodrum’s death is being investigated as a homicide, according to the Fayette County coroner’s office. Woodrum of Lexington died of a gunshot wound at 12:40 a.m. at University of Kentucky Chandler Medical Center, the coroner said."

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/9327481.htm

By the way, I wonder which far right wing bunch of goons that includes Ted Nugent and Grover Norquist publishes a gun magazine for kids?

[MrBenchley]

14. 17-year-old girl shot to death in Perrine bedroom (FL)

registration required
"A 17-year-old Maryland girl who was living with her grandmother and aunt in the Perrine area was shot to death early this morning by a gunman who fired at her repeatedly through a bedroom window, Miami-Dade police said.
The victim was identified as Lindsey Graham. She had been living with her grandmother, Marilyn Graham, while she attended Palmetto Senior High last year, a family friend told The Herald. Lindsey was going to rejoin her mother in Maryland for the upcoming school year, the friend said."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/9327525.htm

[MrBenchley]

15. Police Charge Teen With Accidental Shooting Of Girl

"An 18-year-old man who accidentally shot a gun inside a house, striking a girl, faces charges.
Howard County police have charged Benjamin Mark Allen, of Woodbine, Md., with reckless endangerment and discharge of a gun in connection with the July 6 shooting of Katie Weyer.
On July 6 at approximately 4:28 p.m., police responded to the 800 block of Iron Rail Court after receiving a call of a shooting. Police discovered the victim in a first-floor bathroom who appeared to have a gunshot wound to the upper-right chest area."

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/3620748/detail.html

[library_max]

21. Here again, you'd get the exact same outcome with a knife. /nt

[MrBenchley]

16. Police Investigate Three Shootings Across Charlotte

"CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Police are investigating three separate shootings that happened across Charlotte Thursday morning.
Police haven't made any arrests and haven't said if any of the shootings are connected."

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/3618926/detail.html

[MrBenchley]

19. Judge: No Separate Trials For Randallstown Shootings (MD)

"TOWSON, Md. -- The two men and a teenager charged in the May 7 shootings at Randallstown High School will stand trial together.
A judge Wednesday rejected a request by one of the defendants for a separate trial. Anthony Jackson, 21, of Owings Mills, will be tried alongside Tyrone Brown, 23, of Baltimore, and Matthew McCullough, 17, of Randallstown. All three are charged with attempted murder, assault and conspiracy."

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/3618719/detail.html