A particularly disgusting letter to the editor...

[RoeBear]

http://www.cleveland.com/letters/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1091549700199350.xml

"I'm sure the newspaper has received a great deal of hate mail from gun advocates, but, <snip> So be assured that I represent many thousands of Ohioans who are not only disturbed by the passage of the bill but also by the law's secrecy provision."

Assuming facts not in evidence

"Victims of domestic violence and stalking, and others who have been threatened with violence, need to know whether the person pursuing them is permitted to carry a concealed weapon.

If the stalker/abuser has a gun how would a CCW permit change any thing?

"All citizens have the right to decide whether they want to be around people carrying loaded guns. I, for one, do not."

Oh, I know, let's make them wear 6 sided stars so we know who the people we don't like are.

"Citizens have the right to know whether permits are being given to prohibited persons and whether permit holders are committing crimes. It's not true that all permit holders are law-abiding citizens. In October 2000, the Los Angeles Times reported that since Texas' concealed-weapons law took effect in January 1996, the state had licensed more than 400 people with prior convictions. And from 1996 to 1999, Texas permit holders were arrested for weapons-related offenses at a rate 66 percent higher than that of the general population of the state, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety."

If any of that is true then shame on the public agencies for not doing their job.

[MrBenchley]

1. What's disgusting about it, roe?

It's perfectly sensible.

And shame on the gun lobby who pushed such a short sighted and dangerous measure through.

[RoeBear]

2. Would you want your privacy violated like that?

If you owned something of value that other people might want to steal
would you want the newspaper to publish your name and address?

[MrBenchley]

3. Too too funny...

Those guns sure are some hot shit deterrant to crime, aren't they...

Not only do you want to tote a piece, you want the rest of us to cover you when you do....

[RoeBear]

4. Can I put your address in the paper?

What kind of valuables would you like me to list with it?

Is it possible that the paper might cause the death of a citizen by publishing their name?

[RoeBear]

6. The sound of silence

Hello darkness, my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again,
Because a vision softly creeping,
Left its seeds while I was sleeping,
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence.

[MrBenchley]

12. In my little town

Twitching like a finger
On the trigger of a gun
Leaving nothing but the dead and dying
Back in my little town

[RoeBear]

14. Since I have your attention...

...which of the following is true: it's ok to violate the privacy rights of gunowners OR it's ok to violate the privacy rights of anyone.

Please respond quickly people are dieing while you make up your mind.

[MrBenchley]

15. Since you have my attention

the public has a right to know what sort of nutcase gets a pistol permit.

[RoeBear]

16. I agree...

...if nutcases are getting permits then the public should be informed that the government agency in charge of permits is not doing it's job properly.

BTW- what is your definition of a nutcase?

[MrBenchley]

18. How about somebody who can't figure out

the American Daily is right wing horseshit?

You might recall the guy who was leading the charge for the idiotic law in Ohio was considered a dangerous loon by his neighbors, who thought he shouln't have any sort of gun, concealed or otherwise.

[RoeBear]

20. Link...

...please.

[MrBenchley]

25. Anything to keep you from spouting song lyrics again...

"Anti-gun protester Jacob Hand of Walnut Hills, who taunted marchers with his "Super Soaker" water gun and carried a sign that stated, "Parking violators will be shot," complained that Ferrier got angry with him for taking a public parking spot in front of Ferrier's house.
"I'd rather not have people like him packing heat," said Hand. "Guns don't make me feel safer. They make me uncomfortable. These people are violating my right to feel comfortable."
Nick Nienaber, who lives across the street from Ferrier, carried a sign that stated, "No more guns, no matter who's concealing them."
"I'm here to make clear that I don't feel people should be allowed to carry concealed guns," he said. "Those who want to do it just want to feel tough. My big fear is that people are going to start pulling these guns and shooting each other." "

http://www.cincypost.com/2003/09/29/guns092903.html

While we're on the subject of gun loons in Ohio...

"In reality, I'd say that most residents of Northside, myself among them, were appalled that Ferrier would invite people with guns to walk through a family neighborhood less than a week after a little boy was shot and killed by a friend just up the road in Mount Airy."

http://www.ofcc.net/printarticle1428.html

"How sad that Vernon Ferrier decided to fuel paranoia and put our community in danger with his "gun walk.'' No matter what message he is trying to send, inviting his estimated "dozens'' of gun-toting friends to converge on a family neighborhood is appalling.
And it's especially tragic in light of what happened last week just up the road, where a 7-year-old was shot and killed by his 8-year-old friend. "

http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1G1:1083..

[MrBenchley]

11. Gee, roe...

I'm not claiming I need a little iron friend to make me safer than anybody else...

[RoeBear]

5. Maybe they could...

..include a little map and the persons work schedule too.

[MrSandman]

7. Hey Karen,

If it's concealed, how does knowing permit status tell you a person is carrying a loaded firearm.(little redundancy) You gonna go around askin people you know can be legally armed, "Hey, are you carrying any loaded guns?"

"All citizens have the right to decide whether they want to be around people carrying loaded guns. I, for one, do not."

[library_max]

8. You're right, it is disgusting.

Using courtroom jargon to retort to an opinion letter? Disgusting.
Failing to see that issuing gun permits permits people to carry guns? Disgusting.
Referencing the Holocaust to depict the plight of poor, abused gun owners? Really disgusting.

Oh, wait, was I reading the letter or your comments? Oops, never mind. The letter was fine. It must have been something else that was disgusting.

[RoeBear]

9. So it's ok for the letter writer to...

...just make shit up?

[library_max]

10. What shit did she make up?

Her opinion? Yes, it's okay for her to just make up her opinion, just the same as you and everybody else just make up your opinions.

[RoeBear]

13. For example:

"I'm sure the newspaper has received a great deal of hate mail from gun advocates" & "So be assured that I represent many thousands of Ohioans who are not only disturbed by the passage of the bill but also by the law's secrecy provision."

Just because the two above ideas are her opinion doesn't make them true.

If I have the opinion that everyone wants to see the AWB expire does that make it true? Or would I be making shit up?

[iverglas]

17. and what has this

got to do with that??

You quote the letter writer:

"I'm sure the newspaper has received a great deal of hate mail from gun advocates"

and

"So be assured that I represent many thousands of Ohioans who are not only disturbed by the passage of the bill but also by the law's secrecy provision."

and you say:

Just because the two above ideas are her opinion doesn't make them true.

What are you talking about?

The second, to take the easiest first, isn't what anyone would normally call "opinion". It's an assertion of fact. Are you actualy saying it's false?? There are *not* many thousands of Ohioans who are disturbed by the two things mentioned??

Hell, in a population of over 11 million, you could probably find many thousands who believe Saddam Hussein attacked the US on Sept. 11.

The second is also more or less an assertion of fact, although it could be said to contain an opinion.

The *assertion* would be that the newspaper has received a great deal of mail from gun advocates about "publishing the list of concealed- weapons permit holders", that being the bit that immediately preceded the statement you quoted, and what it was about. Do you imagine that it hasn't?? Do you imagine that the mail in question was not in many cases rather hostile?

The *opinion* would be that the mail in question is "hate mail". And that really is just one of those matter-of-opinion things, isn't it? One person's justiably strongly-worded missive is another person's hate mail. And doesn't anybody reading a statement about something that is a matter of opinion generally just think "Oh, that's an opinion", and like it or lump it?

What on earth is your problem here? And like I said --

If I have the opinion that everyone wants to see the AWB expire does that make it true? Or would I be making shit up?

-- what on earth does this have to do with that?? Of course you would be making shit up. What are you suggesting that this letter-writer made up?

[library_max]

19. There are about 11.5 million people living in Ohio.

So a pretty tiny percentage, even of adults, would still be "many thousands of Ohioans." I don't think that's much of a stretch. As for the hate mail, note the key phrase, "I'm sure." If she had just said "The newspaper has received a great deal of hate mail from gun advocates" and they hadn't, then yeah, that'd be making shit up. Saying "I'm sure" is a statement of opinion, not fact. By the way, do you have any information one way or another about what kind of mail the newspaper has been receiving on the subject? Or are you just making shit up?

Since scientific nationwide polls have set the percentage of eligible voters who support the AWB at 78%, then yeah, if you said that "everyone wants to see the AWB expire" you would be making shit up. If you said "I'm sure everyone will be happier when the AWB expires," that would be an opinion - an opinion easily refuted by the aforementioned poll, but at least not making shit up.

[RoeBear]

21. I guess I'll have to agree with you...

...since it is possible that a "pretty tiny percentage" of Ohioans
feel like her we can probably write them off as a 'fringe' group.

[library_max]

23. Anything's possible.

It could also be an overwhelming majority. She doesn't provide any figures, and neither do you.

[skippythwndrdog]

31. The only rub with those "scientific" polls

I've seen several. I'm referring to only those that I have seen. Not one of them explains exactly what the AWB actually does and does not do. Not one of them accurately defines "assault weapon". We've seen on this board that most Americans haven't the slightest clue about the actual ban. It has a scary name, therefore what it bans must be scary, therefore, I'm for it. Give it a scary name and most elected officials will vote for it because Joe Uninformed Voter sees only the scary name.

Once again, the control freaks are pandering to the vast and vocal minority by using deception to advance their agenda. The polls I've seen help.

No links here. If you want to show me a poll that educates the respondents about the content, feel free. I may even change my mind. It's possible.

[library_max]

32. Except that that's not the point.

Posters keep saying that supporting the AWB is political suicide. In fact, most prospective voters support the AWB. Whether or not they understand it is irrelevant to the question of whether it is politically fatal for Kerry and Edwards and the Democratic Platform to also support it.

[gatlingforme]

22. Letter to the editors are great!! I love reading the BS people say

when they want to state their opinion on something. It's fun to read. whether you agree or not, opinion pieces are hilarious. I think what is more important than what the reader said, but what she was responding to. The newspaper printed these peoples personal info (which is public record) but why did they do that???? to prove a point that people have a right to know who is carrying a gun????? hmmm I hardly think the newspaper gives a rats ass about that!!!! They just want to sell and that was a good story to sell. bottom line is dollars and they made some printing those names.

[library_max]

24. I particularly enjoy it

when they can't manage sentence structure, and overuse question marks and exclamation points.

[gatlingforme]

26. Good point!!!!!!! Thanks for the unnecessary dig. If you don't like

to read my posts because they are not up to par with your grammar expertise, as some posts will be at times I assume, then don't read them.

[library_max]

27. You know, I wouldn't have done such a thing

if you weren't taking essentially the same kinds of potshots at the letter writer. If it's okay with you for her to write what she wants however she wants, then it's okay with me for you to write what you want however you want. Deal?

[gatlingforme]

28. My post was an opinion in response to a "Letter to the Editor"

Usually when a person writes a letter to the editor it is to state their opinion, as I have done at times too, and I enjoy reading letters to the editor in part because I commend people for participating on issues. I find some of them funny and some BS while other letters are really good, but they are opinions to be debated. That's the point of letter to the editor. IMHO -- I am very happy you gave me the option of making a deal with you though. LOL no hard feelings here anyway.

[library_max]

29. Fair enough, then.

I guess I thought BS meant, well, something bad. No hard feelings here either, and sorry for the shots.

[gatlingforme]

30. I should not have said BS - sounded kind of nasty - which I am not

I like to think. LOL