The AW definition thread.

[FatSlob]

Here is my proposal.

For the purposes of Gungeon threads, an Assault Rifle shall mean a magazine fed rifle or carbine that has one of the following additional features:

1. "pistol" grip
2. bayonet/bipod lug.
3. Stock adjustable for length (commonly referred to as "collapsible"
4. A flash reducer (commonly referred to as a "flash hider")
5. A threaded barrel (barrel threads are like screw threads which allow accessories to be screwed onto the end of the barrel).

For a rifle or carbine that appears similar to one of the above, but does not fit the definition of an assault rifle or carbine, we shall call it a "Post-ban rifle" or "post-ban carbine".

Fully automatic weapons shall not be considered assault rifles for gungeon threads, but may be referenced as a "machine gun" or a "full-auto" gun/rifle/etc.

M16 shall refer to the full auto/select fire rifles and carbines of the United States or foreign militaries.

AR15 shall refer to semi-automatic civilian-legal versions of the M16.

Pre-ban shall mean an banned assault weapon that is legal due to grandfathering.

Any other suggestions?

[MrBenchley]

1. Hot cha cha....

My proposal is that anybody trying to pretend nobody else knows what an assautl weapon is at this point should be banished....

[Hef]

22. yeah yeah yeah

If the ignorant can't even get the terminology right, and understand the differences between weapons and their features, how the hell can they even present a decent arguement?

I don't mind that some people are anti-gun, and others are pro-gun. I respect your right to see things differently than I do. But if anti-gun Joe doesn't know a muzzle from a missile there's no way he can voice an educated opinion.

I won't bash anybody for not knowing the difference between an AK-47, AK-74, SAR-1, SAR-2, or a WASR-10. I will bash them if they start throwing around terms like "semiautomatic" and "automatic" as if they were interchangeable, or "assault RIFLE" (specific term) and "assault WEAPON" (Diane Feinstein's made-up bullshit term).

If you know your weapons and hate them, good for you. It will make for a better debate. Otherwise, sit back, STFU, and learn something.

[Wickerman]

2. looks good

I'd like to see that kicked to the top for a good long time - woudl save a lot of keyboard wear and tear around here.

All I would add is that only crazed, RW, end-timer's would ever want one and you certainly don't NEED an assault weapon. But, on second thought that would be in bad taste. :evilgrin:

[-..__...]

24. I agree with that.

"I'd like to see that kicked to the top for a good long time - would save a lot of keyboard wear and tear around here."

Certainly it's within your power or sphere of influence? ;)

"All I would add is that only crazed, RW, end-timer's would ever want one and you certainly don't NEED an assault weapon."

Well, now you've gone ahead and ruined it :-( .

I'm not "crazed" (different, maybe), nor am I "RW" or an "end-timer" (and given the benefit of a doubt, neither are any of the other "Pro Gun Democrats" posting here).

The "needs" argument is circular and only adds more fuel to the fire.

Yeah, I know you added a :evilgrin: to your post, but it could easily be taken the wrong way.

[OpSomBlood]

3. Assault weapon = semi-auto, assault rifle = select fire.

That's my only distinction.

[LibLabUK]

4. Ofcourse..

Then you have to define "semi-auto" and "select fire".

How about composing a j/ps glossary, and stickyfying it to the top of the list of threads?

[OpSomBlood]

5. Not a bad idea at all.

However, come to think of it...in less than a month the term "assault weapon" will no longer have any federal legal meaning. So I will go back to calling them what they are, semi-automatic rifles.

[FatSlob]

6. I intentionally didn't do that to reduce confusion.

Even I would get it mixed up every now and then. For understandability purposes for the masses, we should use full-auto or machine gun when the distinction needs to be made.

[turnkey]

7. Might add rifle calibers vs. pistol calibers!

[FatSlob]

8. I would, if they were part of the legal definition.

For our purposes, I don't think that rifle/pistol caliber makes a difference.

[FeebMaster]

9. I can't do it.

I simply can't refer to a semi-auto rifle as an assault rifle. Do you know what the NRA will do to me? I could lose my job.

[MrSandman]

23. Remember the Minders...n/t

[FatSlob]

10. REVISION I (edited)

For the purposes of Gungeon threads, an Assault WEAPON shall mean a magazine fed rifle or carbine that has one of the following additional features:

1. "pistol" grip
2. bayonet/bipod lug.
3. Stock adjustable for length (commonly referred to as "collapsible"
4. A flash reducer (commonly referred to as a "flash hider")
5. A threaded barrel (barrel threads are like screw threads which allow accessories to be screwed onto the end of the barrel).

For a rifle or carbine that appears similar to one of the above, but does not fit the definition of an assault weapon, we shall call it a "Post-ban rifle" or "post-ban carbine".

Fully automatic weapons shall not be considered assault WEAPONS for gungeon threads, but may be referenced as a "machine gun" or a "full-auto" gun/rifle/etc.

M16 shall refer to the full auto/select fire rifles and carbines of the United States or foreign militaries.

AR15 shall refer to semi-automatic civilian-legal versions of the M16.

Pre-ban shall mean an banned assault weapon that is legal due to grandfathering.

Assault rifles means the select fire rifles and carbines mentioned above. To avoid confusion, the term "military" or "full-auto" or "machine gun" shall be used

Any other suggestions?

[FeebMaster]

11. Better.

But I'd change this sentence:


For a rifle or carbine that appears similar to one of the above, but does not fit the definition of an assault rifle or carbine, we shall call it a "Post-ban rifle" or "post-ban carbine".

to

For a rifle or carbine that appears similar to one of the above, but does not fit the definition of an assault Weapon or carbine, we shall call it a "Post-ban rifle" or "post-ban carbine".

or maybe just take out the carbine parts altogether

For a rifle that appears similar to one of the above, but does not fit the definition of an assault Weapon, we shall call it a "Post-ban rifle" or "post-ban weapon".


I don't think people currently calling the SKS an assault rifle are going to stop doing it, though.

[enfield collector]

12. agreed.

For a rifle that appears similar to one of the above, but does not fit the definition of an assault Weapon, we shall call it a "Post-ban rifle" or "post-ban weapon".


I don't think people currently calling the SKS an assault rifle are going to stop doing it, though.



you're right, as far as they're concerned it all just gun porn anyway.

[FatSlob]

13. Done, in revision I

[turnkey]

14. Agreed

"I don't think people currently calling the SKS an assault rifle are going to stop doing it, though."

There really is no mechanical difference between the SKS and other traditionally stocked semi-automatic battle rifles (or hunting rifles for that matter).

[mosin]

15. Objections

I have a few objections.

I agree with OpSomBlood. I object to mixing up the "assault rifle" and "assault weapon" terminology.

Also, an "assault weapon," by definition, has a "detachable magazine", not simply a "magazine."

Finally, an "assault weapon" has two of the listed features, not one.

Otherwise, I think acknowledging the current -- for the next 26 days, 8 hours, 41 minutes -- federal definition of an "assault weapon" is good.

[turnkey]

16. You need to incorperate the Tec-9 type weapons. n/t

[mosin]

17. True

You're right, we're focusing only on the semi-automatic rifle portion of the "assault weapon" definition. There are other alternative/parallel definitions of "assault weapon" that encompass "assault pistols" and "assault shotguns."

[FatSlob]

34. Aren't the shotguns mentioned already regulated by the NFA?

[FeebMaster]

35. Only the Street Sweeper and Striker 12

which are mentioned my name and were also declared destructive devices sometime in 1994. Shotguns have their own list of evil features:

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of -
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii)a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.


As you can see bayonet lugs aren't on the list. I think everyone with a semi-auto shotgun should put a bayonet on it.

[-..__...]

25. I agree..

Somewhat.

"Finally, an "assault weapon" has two of the listed features, not one".

The Federal ban states "two or more" features... which is different from "more than two". I post that because even in the many gun forums I read some people don't understand that. There are quite a few otherwise knowledgeable people that think a "detachable magazine" counts as a "banned feature".

"One" feature does not an "assault weapon" make (under current guidelines).

"an Assault Rifle shall mean a magazine fed rifle or carbine that has one of the following additional features:"

One feature is allowed by law (in almost every circumstance, the trade-off is the pistol grip that facilitates "spray firing form the hip".

:eyes:

Hell, even us gun people can get confused at times over this AWB thing. Imagine how the know-nothing sheeple must be confused by it?

:D

[mosin]

26. I'm not at all confused...

I never stated "more than two" features. I said "two of the listed features," which implies "two or more," since having three necessarily requires having "two."

[FeebMaster]

27. What on earth are we going to talk about

when the damn thing sunsets?

[mosin]

28. Maybe...

Destructive devices...
Short-barreled rifles...
Machine guns...
Any Other Weapons (AOW)...
18 U.S.C. 922(r), 27 CFR Sec. 178.39, and counting foreign-made parts...

The list of silly federal gun control issues is endless. :)

[MrSandman]

29. A way to ban Sniper weapons...

http://www.fact-index.com/2/20/2003_west_virginia_sniper.html

Who needs 1.0 MOA groups?

[mosin]

31. I don't see how...

you could craft a ban based on accuracy. It's too variable, depending on ammunition selection, humidity, temperature, and countless other factors.

I suppose one could ban the excessively accurate bolt-action rifles as a group. After all, no one needs to hit a quarter at 200 yards. If you can shoot a deer with a bow and arrow, you can shoot it with a rifle at 50 yards. Hunters will just have to do with the generally less accurate semi-automatic rifles....

But wait, don't AR-15-style rifles dominate long-range shooting competitions? We'll have to ban those too.

And scopes, as well.

Or, maybe we should ban rifling. Rifling is unnecessary for short-range shooting. It was created solely to make it easier to kill people. Smoothbore longarms should meet everyone's sporting needs. After all, no one needs rifling to shoot sporting clays.

[MrSandman]

33. I didn't see how...

A ban could be crafted on appearances.

Ban rifling and jacketed bullets/sabots. Clean the things every 10 rounds.

[-..__...]

32. That's a good question!

I suppose there's always good ol' "gun porn" to discuss...

Show me yours and I'll show you mine.

[-..__...]

30. Sory for the confusion.

:)

[slackmaster]

18. When I was a kid there was a bully in our neighborhood

He used to carry around a piece of broomstick with small nails sticking out of it.

He assaulted several other children with it before the big sister of one of them beat the crap out of him and took his stick away.

I've always thought of that stick as an assault weapon, because it was used to assault people.

[TX-RAT]

19. Sounds like the big sister, was the assault weapon.

I've always thought of that stick as an assault weapon
Depends on how many nails its got in it. Was it a preban stick with nails?

[slackmaster]

20. It was a pre-ban chick, not sure about the stick

She's a lawyer somewhere in the Northeast now. Went to Radcliffe IIRC.

[TX-RAT]

21. A pre-ban chick lawyer

That scares the hell out of me.