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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 07:03 PM
Original message
Pot grower faces murder charges for firefighter deaths
PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A house blaze that killed two firefighters started in a tangle of wires and lamps that were installed to grow marijuana in a basement closet, authorities said.

The man who police say was responsible for the drug operation was charged with third-degree murder.

Fire Capt. John Taylor, 53, and firefighter Rey Rubio, 42, died Friday when they were trapped by quick-moving flames while trying to find the source of the fire.

more...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/08/21/firefighters.killed.ap/
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Um, wouldn't manslaughter be more appropriate?
If anything?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Involuntary manslaughter perhaps
2504. Involuntary manslaughter.
(a) General rule.-A person is guilty of involuntary manslaughter when as a direct result of the doing of an unlawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner, or the doing of a lawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner, he causes the death of another person.

(b) Grading.-Involuntary manslaughter is a misdemeanor of the first degree. Where the victim is under 12 years of age and is in the care, custody or control of the person who caused the death, involuntary manslaughter is a felony of the second degree.


I believe a charge of third degree murder (in PA) would require premeditation.

http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/18.Cp.25.html
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Now you are defending...
Edited on Mon Aug-23-04 09:51 PM by MrSandman
those who are breaking the drug laws of our nation?

Let's convict and worry about the nature of the law later. I mean, he's only a dopehead.<sarcasm off>
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vivalarev Donating Member (503 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. And?....
Im a pothead myself, but this guy deserves to be charged. Im only a few miles from where this happened. It is truly a shame.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. He was running an illegal business..
and it sounds as if he didn't use an electrition to help with wiring, and he didn't even try to do it properly on his own.

I don't have any sympathy for him.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. So if firefighters die...
at someones house and the home owner had done some "do it yourself," work they should be charged with murder aswell?

Or do you just have a problem with people sell drugs and arent part of a major corporation?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I guess I look at it..
the same way I would look a person who started the fire by copying a stunt he saw on 'Jackass'.

If it was a corporation that tried to cut corners by illegally wiring their offices, I would feel the same.

Maybe 3rd degree murder us too harsh. I'm not familiar enough with the law to say. I do think his negligence contributed to these deaths, and the families deserve some amount of justice.
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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. they were firefighters
who failed in their job. sorry to be so blunt. firemen train by going into fires set on purpose! nowhere in the story does it say the wiring was done illegaly, everything electircal you need to grow can be bought legally. the man could just have well been growing orchids in his closet as frar as the firemens deaths are concerned. and the "dried out" wood from growing is bullshit, the nature of growing pot indoors creates a very HUMID environment! if he dried out the wood, he wasn't growing very much pot, out of ignorance.

i guess the guy would be better of buying dime sacks off the street so he can get framed by police for a much worse crime, or shot by a pissed off dealer, than trying to be self sufficient and NOT support the illegal drug trade, which the police profit from, huh? one more criminal off the streets.
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gatlingforme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. I do not like the smell of this DA. It's very sad that these firefighters
died... very sad, but to charge a perp with third degree murder and involutary manslaughter is eeeeerie. Third degree murder requires malice but not intent to hurt and involuntaty manslaughter is basically negligence and being stupid. Those are contradictory to begin with.

She also has a very nefarious background of being a little too ideological....in her actions as DA..

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/case/prelease.asp?id=226

To sell a forfeiture prop for 1.00 to a religious org. is --- in my humble opinion wrong. She could have sold that prop. at a much higher level to whomever and keep the procedes to add to the drug fund in her own region.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Another example of the unintended consequences
Of that failed experiment called the War on Drugs where the cure is horrifyingly worse than the disease.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
8. I think its bullshit.
They are only charging him because he sells drugs.

If those firefighters died at the house of an old lady who plugged too many appliances into an extension cord there would be no charges.
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gatlingforme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I agree, this DA has an agenda.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. The firefighters are victims of the "war on drugs"
Edited on Tue Aug-24-04 07:26 AM by Wcross
I hate that they died. This would never have happened if not for our "war on drugs". If mary-jo-wanna wasn't criminalized the grower would have been using the biggest grow light- the sun.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Is it too twisted to say the anti-marijuana laws killed the firefighters?
Can we charge Nancy Reagan with 3rd degree murder?
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Were the growers trying to change the laws?
Edited on Tue Aug-24-04 11:20 PM by MrSandman
Or were they in reckless disregard of others?

I think the WOD is an abysmal failure that started at least 10 years before Nancy.

on edit: I don't believe premeditation was present....n/t
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Some more about this...
"PHILADELPHIA -- Hundreds of people paid their final respects Thursday to the second of two Philadelphia firefighters who died in the line of duty last Friday night.
A viewing and funeral Mass was held Thursday for Rey Rubio, 42, at Incarnation Roman Catholic Church in North Philadelphia. Led by Mayor John Street, many city officials joined firefighters from as far away as Ottawa, Canada, to say goodbye to Rubio.
"Rey was a fun guy. He always had a smile on his face. It was good to have Rey around. He was a good guy. I miss him a lot. It breaks my heart I won't see him again," said Capt. Eric Fleming, of the Philadelphia Fire Department.

On Wednesday, firefighters from all along the East Coast and Canada came to in Huntington Valley, Pa., to pay their respects to fallen firefighter Capt. John Taylor.
"He had something to say that was helpful towards our mission all the time," said Acting Commander Lloyd Ayers of the Philadelphia Fire Department. "Focused on the mission, focused on the members, focused on his job and his role and that's a very important thing for our dangerous type of occupations."
After the services at St. Albert the Great Roman Catholic Church, the 32-year-old veteran, hailed by many as a great man, was taken to his final resting place.
His engine company, who were with Taylor when he died, escorted his coffin to his grave.
His battalion company also stood in a missing man formation for a fallen firefighter who risked his life trying to save a friend.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/3681325/detail.html

"Fire officials said that Rubio may have become trapped in the haphazard wiring for lighting that was being used to grow marijuana plants. They said Taylor may have stayed behind to help Rubio.
Yesterday, Adrian Rubio said that he was angry that his brother died because somebody was growing drugs. He said his brother was a driven firefighter who joined the department out of a desire to help others.
Those who gathered at retired firefighter Dennis Magrann's North Philadelphia home yesterday to share stories about Taylor said the way the two firefighters of Engine Company 28 in Port Richmond died made it more difficult to handle their deaths.
"They lost their lives over pretty much nothing," Bowman said."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/9471255.htm

"Philadelphia District Attorney Lynne Abraham called suspect Daniel Brough "reckless," "foolish" and "greedy" for his role in the deaths, and said he should have known that the growing array posed a fire hazard.
"This is unacceptable criminal conduct," she said.
CBS 3's Tamsen Fadal has learned the men died of asphyxiation. Both of their oxygen tanks were reportedly empty. Neither man’s body was badly burned.
Sources tell Fadal officials suspect the victims became tangled in the maze of wires rigged to grow the marijuana plants."

http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_234143401.html
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