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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 04:18 PM
Original message
Double Barreled Double Standards
Edited on Tue Aug-24-04 04:27 PM by CO Liberal
A story from last year, that I have to re-post from time to time to show what a useless piece of shit John Lott/Mary Rosh truly is. - Wayne

* * * * *

Double Barreled Double Standards

For years, John Lott has provided a vital scholarly basis to the pro-gun movement. But now his research and his integrity are drawing heavy fire.

By Chris Mooney
October 13, 2003


If economist John R. Lott didn't exist, pro-gun advocates would have had to invent him. Probably the most visible scholarly figure in the U.S. gun debate, Lott's densely statistical work has given an immense boost to the arguments of the National Rifle Association. Lott's 1998 book More Guns, Less Crime -- which extolled the virtues of firearms for self-defense and has sold some 100,000 copies in two editions, quite an accomplishment for an academic book -- has served as a Bible for proponents of "right to carry" laws (also known as "shall issue" laws), which make it easier for citizens to carry concealed weapons. Were Lott to be discredited, an entire branch of pro-gun advocacy could lose its chief social scientific basis.

That may be happening. Earlier this year, Lott found himself facing serious criticism of his professional ethics. Pressed by critics, he failed to produce evidence of the existence of a survey -- which supposedly found that "98 percent of the time that people use guns defensively, they merely have to brandish a weapon to break off an attack" -- that he claimed to have conducted in the second edition of "More Guns, Less Crime". Lott then made matters even worse by posing as a former student, "Mary Rosh," and using the alias to attack his critics and defend his work online. When an Internet blogger exposed the ruse, the scientific community was outraged. Lott had created a "false identity for a scholar," charged Science editor-in-chief Donald Kennedy. "In most circles, this goes down as fraud."

Lott's recent baggage makes him an impeachable witness in the push to pass state-level right to carry laws, and raises questions about his broader body of work. Kennedy and others have even likened Lott to Michael Bellesiles, the Emory University historian who could not produce the data at the heart of his award-winning 2000 book "Arming America", which had seemed to undermine the notion that there was widespread gun ownership and usage in colonial America. But while Bellesiles resigned after a university panel challenged his credibility, thus far Lott has escaped a similar fate. An academic rolling stone, Lott has held research positions at the University of Chicago and Yale law schools, but currently works at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a Washington think tank much smiled upon by the Bush administration. AEI will not say whether it will investigate its in-house guns expert; by e-mail, AEI president Christopher DeMuth declined to comment on the possibility.

Lott's defenders rightly point out that the missing survey -- which was completely lost in a computer crash, Lott says -- isn't central to the argument of "More Guns, Less Crime". But as Harvard economist David Hemenway wrote in a recent critique of Lott's latest book, "The Bias Against Guns", one must have "faith in Lott's integrity" before accepting his statistical results. That is because in the dauntingly complex subfield of econometrics, statistical manipulation is a constant concern. In a recent attempt to rescue his beleaguered "More Guns, Less Crime" hypothesis from criticism, Lott has been caught massaging his data to favor his argument. In subsequent exchanges with Mother Jones, he changed his story several times about a key data table that was misleadingly labeled -- and then surreptitiously amended -- on his website. Nevertheless, most pro-gun scholars and political conservatives have yet to call Lott to account.

<more>

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/10/we_590_01.html
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well that was disappointing.
I was hoping for a thread on double barreled shotguns.
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turnkey Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes!...I was expecting a nice Fox Sterling. n/t
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skippythwndrdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-28-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. OR a Greener n/t
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gatlingforme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. LOL, my eyes lit up when I saw the post.... LOL
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Phantom_5C1 Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Damn, me too.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Don't cry boys....
Here's a picture of Dianne Feinstein....you can pretend she wants to grab your gun while you finger your little triggers....

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LibLabUK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Classy.
"That will make one heck of a target next time I'm at the range."

Err... you sure you're on the right message boards?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I've Noticed Something....
At least 50 percent of the deleted messages on all of DU are here on the J/PS board....
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's true
And at least half of the deleted messages on J/PS are posted by the same individual.

:nuke:
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yep - "Name Removed"
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. The problem a lying shitheel like Lott has
is that he has trouble remembering what he lied about last time, since he pulls all his "science" out of his ass.....


Here he is in April:
"What about the nightmare scenario that a Republican manufacturer will secretly program the computers in advance to alter the election? Suppose that such a tampering scheme were to occur. Such tampering would easily be revealed as the precinct election workers check the machines for accuracy with sample votes both before and after the election."

http://cgi.cse.unsw.edu.au/~lambert/cgi-bin/johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/VotingConspiracies.html

And here the disgraceful fuckwit is in August...
"According to American Enterprise Institute resident scholar John Lott, an expert interviewed by Mary O’Grady of the Wall Street Journal, "You can easily write a program that tells the voting machine to record something different in its memory than what it prints out on the receipt that is to be dropped in the ballot box.""

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200408210512
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. If I included a made up graph in a research paper
central to my thesis or not, I'd be on the recieving end of a nice shiny firing before too long...
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Lott Doesn't Have To Worry About That
His cushy professor's chair is bought and paid for by gun money.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. Where are the double barrels.
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. *sigh*. let's all go shoot at pictures of gun grabbers with our big shiny
guns. we can talk about progressive values while we do it, too. oh wait- i've never seen progressive values espoused in the gunjeon. never mind.
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Yeah.
i've never seen progressive values espoused in the gunjeon. never mind.

Especially when the gun control supporters were pimping John McCain as Kerry's VP.
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UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. i havent been here long enough to do that
BUT i was against it from the get-go.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Did they give up on that, finally???
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. No one has said it openly since Edwards was announced. (nt)
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. So are you claiming...
that ending the war on drugs isnt progressive?

I also guess that you think that only the wealthy and well connected should be allowed acess to certain things that the rest of us shouldnt. Yeah thats real progressive right there. :eyes:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Gee, jack...
Who the hell thinks that wanting to get high is "progressive"?

And aprt from muttering about "End the War on Drugs," I've never seen any of our trigger-happy chums express any proposal anywhere on how to deal with the problem...beyond letting people flounder around for themselves.

"I also guess that you think that only the wealthy and well connected should be allowed acess to certain things that the rest of us shouldnt."
<sarcasm>Yeah, that's why the Assault Weapons Ban contains that pass for Skull and Bones members</sarcasm>. Geeze, this faux populism is the least convincing part of you guys' tired acts...
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. well apparently you think....
the things that our government does such as kicking down peoples doors and confiscating thier property just because the person might have something do with a naturally growing plant is progressive huh. :eyes:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Gee, jack....
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime....

Still waiting to hear what's progressive about wanting to get high and breaking the law...

But then you'll notice all of these half-assed Libertarian ideas aren't worth a plate of piss...
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. There is a lot that can be said for legalising drugs
from a non-libertarian POV. If I have the time in the next few days to do some semi-serious research I might even try to start a thread on it.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yeah, but most of those proposals
involve actual plans and details on how to deal with the human dimensions of the problem, not just aimless moaning and empty posturing....

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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Thats a might progressive statement....
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime....

Then why do so many right wingers use it? :eyes:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Gee, Jack...
It's a lot more progressive than the right wing talking points you've been pushing...
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I doubt that.
Edited on Fri Aug-27-04 01:59 AM by Jack_DeLeon
Thinking its okay for the government to lock people away and sieze thier property just because they own a certain type of plant is about as right wing as you can get.

But apparently thats the kind of thing that you are pimping, not I.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-27-04 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Well, you go ahead and doubt...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. More From Lott/Rosh...and a clear double standard
"On his blog Lott reports that he was recently asked by a reporter whether President Bush was evil or just stupid. If a reporter asks a question like that it raises serious questions about her objectivity. How can a reporter with such a negative opinion of the President write unbiased news articles? Seems like a clear case of media bias.
Oops, sorry, I made a mistake it the previous paragraph. The reporter actually asked Lott whether Jimmy Carter was evil or just stupid. Fortunately, the rest of my paragraph is still valid. Lott doesn’t tell us who the biased reporter was, but the one that wrote the Wall Street Journal that quoted Lott and presumably discussed Carter with him was Mary Anastasia O’Grady. "

http://cgi.cse.unsw.edu.au/~lambert/cgi-bin/blog/2004/08#carter
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