Should 2nd Amendment Rights be restored to Felons

[Wickerman]

Poll question: Should 2nd Amendment Rights be restored to Felons

post debt to society? Lets make it easy - end of parole.

This was discussed months ago, but I wonder where we stand in a poll and with this crop of DUers, since so many names have changed...

:)


on edit - I went to take a leak and thought about my poll and realized I typed probation rather than parole - changed.

[MrBenchley]

1. They should be able to join the National Guard

but not become officers...

[happyslug]

38. When I was in Felons were in the National Guard AND given M16s

In fact one of the duties of the full time personal in my unit (The person who stayed at the armory every day) was to go to the various jails and Medium security prisons in the area and pull the Convicted Felons from the Jail and Prisons to serve their two weeks.

Yes, the National Guard PULLED out CONVICTED felons from JAILS AND PRISONS, and than gave them a FULLY AUTOMATIC M-16 Rifle. We did this in the 1980s and there has been NO Change in the law since that time so it is still going on. If any one of these Felons wanted to escape all their had to do was wait to serve their two weeks wait for the unit to go to the field and just hike out. Just behind Ft Indian-town Gap was the Appalachian Trail. No one would of thought of looking for them there. Ft A.P. Hill is located just outside the Washington Metro area, easy to get to and back from.

Thus to escape WITH an AUTOMATIC weapon would have been easy, all of them did not. Thus just because someone has been convicted of a felony should not deny him the right to own a rifle or Shotgun and to a limited degree a Pistol. Now someone sent to a maximum Security Prison would be a different matter (Through it tends to be WHY they were sent to a Maximum Security prison, it it was to fill up the prison than treat like a Minimal Security Prison but if for good cause treated differently).

This shows the stupidly of many of our gun laws, laws that restrict without doing any good have to be abolished while laws THAT DO PREVENT CRIME must be kept on the books. As I have pointed out other times PISTOLS are the main form of weapons used in Crimes and as such must be more restricted in ownership than rifles or Shotguns. On the other hand Rifles and Shotguns are used in crime less than knives or even clubs. Our law should reflect that sad fact instead of whether someone sold beer during prohibition (Remember selling beer during prohibition was a FELONY and as such grounds to be denied the right to own a weapon even through selling the same beer today is legal).

Yes I know I avoided the REAL problem with Gun Control, what is a "Reasonable" Gun Control? Instant Checks for Rifles and Shotguns appear to be good enough (More restriction would do less good than instant checks for people who buys knives). On the other hand Pistols must be subject to greater restrictions given their use in crime, the real issue is HOW MUCH MORE RESTRICTION?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Those convicted of non-violent or drug related felonies should be restored

[napi21]

3. Yes, after they have completed their sentence.

I don't believe I've heard either party say that they weren't in favor of trying to make ex-felons a productive member of our society. IF that's true, they should have all their constitutional rights restored. For those who say there is rehabilitation, you need not worry. The unchanged ex-felon soon becoms a felon again, and looses those rights all over again.

[rock]

9. You beat me to it

I was gonna say, that'll make it difficault to keep them in jail.

[TX-RAT]

4. Depends on the crime.

I've really got a problem with giving felons convicted of violent crimes, full rights.

[UpsideDownFlag]

5. are you ASKING for a flamefest?

lol.

[Wickerman]

6. no, I think J/PS can seriously discuss something besides guns

edit - but of course I had to make it contextual to draw anyone's attention to the topic.

:7

[FrontPorchPhilosophr]

8. Yes, But.....

Only in the case of non-violent felonies.....

In MOST states, the already exist procedures for the former felon to "return to the fold" and have their "right to vote" for example, restored.

Such procedures are NOT automatic.

A former felon CAN legally (Federal Law) acquire a "long gun" (shotgun/rifle) after completion of his/her sentence, as such are used for "taking game" for food purposes.

State laws vary.

Felons CANNOT re-acquire the right to own a handgun, even with a Presidential pardon.

Works for me. If you committed a violent felony I don't want you owning ANY gun, but given the overwhelming urge to social engineering in some parts, I can live with it as it is....

:hippie:

[DoNotRefill]

14. Ummm....

care to provide evidence of your assertion that felons can own long guns and pardoned felons can't own handguns?

[slackmaster]

15. Read Section 925(c)

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/925.html

I could be mistaken but I believe someone who has received a Presidential pardon is completely off the hook and has all rights restored, as if the conviction never occurred.

My grandfather got a Presidential pardon in 1918 after being sent to prison on a life sentence for refusing to participate in World War I. It's kind of a long story. Short version is President Wilson pardoned 42 young men who had claimed conscientious objector status on religious grounds but had failed to convince the draft board of the validity of their claims.

He owned several firearms. They were all acquired before 1968 so the Gun Control Act was not in effect, but I believe he had all his rights restored. He voted.

[Sandpiper]

7. Depends

On the type of felony committed.

If you used a gun in perpetration of your felony, hell no.

[Gothmog]

10. No individual right under Second Amendment

There is no individual right to bear arms under the Second Amendment. There is nothing to restore to these felons.

[mosin]

20. Uh-oh

Are you trying to turn a peaceful thread into a flame-fest? :)

I don't know about you, but I certainly have an individual right to keep and bear arms for defense and security, with or without the Second Amendment.

[Fescue4u]

11. In some cases yes. That and the right to vote

I could support a process that says 5 years after serving out a felony sentence, you could apply for reinstatement of voting and firearm rights.

Then it would be reviewed by board of some sort and either approved or not.

I wouldnt support an "auto-restore" process though.

[TX-RAT]

13. I could support that.

[Romulus]

12. yes, with exception

I think there should be a system (like the now defunded and defunct ATF hearing procedure) that would allow a convicted person to petition to have their rights restored.

This means proving to an administrative body that they are not a danger to society. Things like the nature of the crime and the number of years they have been law-abiding would factor into the body's decision.

An example of the perfect candidate would be the MD 2000 "Citizen of the Year" who lost his security guard license, his gun permit, and his business. This guy had plead guilty in the late '60's to "assault" after getting into a scuffled with someone who called him a "baby killer" after coming back from Vietnam. 60-day suspended sentence was all he got.

No one knew he was a "convicted felon" until his name got noticed by the MSP when he got the award. He got the award for his work with juvenile anti-gang/anti-drug programs in Baltimore.

[DavidMS]

32. No, but with exceptions...

I think It should be possible for rehabilitated fellons to be fully reintergrated into soceity (firemarms ownership and all), but wnat a little research to find out how long it takes post release for a very high number of them (adjusted for the crime, etc) to be concidered excedingly unlikely to be convicted again.

And possibiy with some system of petitoning (as Romulus sugested).

[FatSlob]

16. No, with the exception...

that this only apply to violent felons. In other words, non-violent felons should be able to have rights restored.

[gatlingforme]

31. I can't think of what crime would be an exception to this? I mean if

a person who diregards the law and becomes a convicted felon, what would make them less of safety concern when they were out? a felony drug conviction is not a violent crime, but the crime itself is egregious enough to be considered a felony. What would stop that person from using a gun the next time if he has already decided to pursue a felonious act previously. ?

I think all felons should be able to vote.

[FatSlob]

37. Non violent felonies might qualify, if the judge agrees.

Felons should be barred the vote except upon petition to the court.

[jtb33]

17. No, they shouldn't, except...

in the case of non-violent felons - like Martha Stewart.

[FeebMaster]

18. Yes. No exceptions. (nt)

[Columbia]

23. Ditto

If a former felon can not be trusted with firearms, why should they be trusted living free in society (where they can always acquire a firearm, whether legal or not)?

[mosin]

19. Yes, except...

for those convicted of felonies of violence.

So, the way the poll was worded, I voted "No, except...."

[Wickerman]

21. So, a lot of folks think without exception that rights should be restored

unless, of course, you are a 17 year old kid who commits the crime and has managed to stay out of trouble since.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=87800&mesg_id=87800

Interesting how opinions shift dependent on whom we discuss. To many, Amy is still a dangerous felon and one to scorn- yet many of those same accusers are willing to let unnamed and unknown ex-felons, presumably adult when charged, a complete and total restoration of 2nd Amendment rights.

Its always fun...

[Columbia]

22. Right restoration

Was there someone who voted yes in this poll and advocated that Amy Fisher should not have her rights restored?

[MrBenchley]

24. Oh, I think if Amy had wanted to buy an assault weapon

there'd be "pro gun democrats" screaming that she was being crucified for her sins....

She committed the unforgivable sin...she expressed support for a law that 80% of the voters and pretty much every liberal group and person in America, including John Kerry, agrees with. Can't let her get away with that!

[Speak no evil]

34. Would you trust a convicted pedophile to look after you kids

Would you trust a convicted pedophile to look after you kids if he served out his full sentence for rape?

A felon who was convicted for initiating acts of violence, no matter what the weapon, should not be allowed to own guns on release from prison, with one exceptions: If the conviction was overturned because the person was falsely imprisoned, full rights should be restored.

I say "initiating acts of violence" because if a person without a history of violence was attacked and their reasonable defensive actions were held against them by an unfriendly jury, they should have full rights restored too.

I think the default position should be NO guns for ex-cons, but that it should be determined on release for every individual because no two cases are alike.

If a person with a rap sheet can demonstrate that they are trustworthy by staying out of trouble over a period of perhaps 10 years after their release, I think their full rights could be restored, even if they were turned down on release from prison.

[Endangered Specie]

25. NO. without exception.

Lifetime ban from any firearm for any felon.

[pala1]

35. For Any Felon???

The problem is, there are really only two 'classes' of crimes---misdemeanors (from misdeeds) and felonies----and now-a-days, just about everything----including any crime involving any financial amount over $1000 is a felony. You mean to tell me Martha Stewart can't even be trusted with a shotgun?

[Endangered Specie]

26. Wow, so half the people voting would gladly restore gun right to

say...

Violent Rapists, 2nd Degree murderers, manslaughterers, attempted murderers, and oh what else... drug smugglers, robbers, armed robbers...

so long as they serve their jail and probation time,well most these guys dont get THAT long in jail.

Even better, some of these felons probably used a gun to , so how do we fix the problem? GIVE their guns back!!! woohoo! Maybe we should also give them a hitlist, make it even fucking easier.

Aint that comforting to know.

[MrBenchley]

27. Hey, the number one priority of "pro gun democrats"

seems to be boosting the profits of the gun industry. Such niceties as common sense (or what the Second Amendment actually says) don't enter into it.

[Endangered Specie]

28. Public Safety be damned eh?

[MrBenchley]

29. "Hey, they like guns...they must be swell folks...."

You'll notice our trigger happy chums save their scorn and contempt for liberals actually trying to improve the country...

[Fescue4u]

30. I think the theory is that if they truly fit to reenter society

then they should be trusted as a member of society, with all rights of society.

I think the theory is fine..in theory only, but I don't buy it in practice.

We all know that first time felons freqently become repeat felons with alarming regularity....BECAUSE they really were not fit to reenter society.

I posted above a system that I could support, but beyond that Im satisfied with keeping guns away from felons.

[MrSandman]

33. I'll bite...

No, unless there is only one offense and 7 years after completion of sentence there have been no felony or misdemeanor(because of possibility of plea bargaining) convictions a person should be eligible for restoration of all rights.

I arbitrarily chose seven years without researching. There should be some information predicting recidivism which could be used to obtain a less arbitrary number of years.

ed for qualifier...s

[RoeBear]

36. I would vote yes...

...if I thought our prison system actually rehabilitated people. But since it doesn't I will vote no.