NRA targets kerry with million dollar ads throughout the US.

[UpsideDownFlag]

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000640345


i hope they'll expose Kerry for the conniving gun grabber that he is.

-sarcasm off-

[Columbia]

1. Didn't you cover this here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x84300

And I thought we were trying to lay off the "Kerry bashing" until he wins the election. Why stir things up?

[UpsideDownFlag]

2. i'm not bashing kerry, am i?

and it doesn't look like my thread is stirring anything up, either. you're the first to post on it in about an hour. it's just that on the occasions that i frequent the Gungeon, i usually like to post examples of RKBAer anti-kerry propaganda.

[Columbia]

3. Why post anything like this at all?

Doesn't seem very constructive to me at all. And considering the disposition of similar past threads, I doubt it will last too long either.

[UpsideDownFlag]

4. why post threads advertising a berretta sub-machine gun?

i know, i know, its not technically an SMG. but you get my drift.

[Columbia]

6. Well, that one doesn't affect Kerry a bit

This one does.

[UpsideDownFlag]

7. exactly, it affects kerry by showing how the largest pro-gun org.

in the country is hell bent on clotheslining him.

[Columbia]

10. What did you think they were going to do?

[UpsideDownFlag]

5. post it because it helps to expose the reality of most pro-gun politics

and where they get their money, and who supports them.

[Columbia]

8. So you are in essence using it as a guilt by association attack

On everyone who supports gun rights on this board?

[UpsideDownFlag]

9. nope, to do such would be reminiscent

of RKBAers who lament that the party has been hijacked by pro-gun control people. i'm just trying to say that the vaaast majority of pro gun politicans, and their special interest group supporters, are repub bootlickers. if people choose to associate with them, they should be allowed to know that.

[Columbia]

11. Actually

The "vaaast" majority of pro gun politicians are from rural areas and they come in all political stripes.

Edit: missed an a

[MrSandman]

27. Does that include the Democratic cosponsors???

[MrBenchley]

13. As always....

None of our RKBAers mind the gun industry bashing Kerry and democrats....they just mind when it is pointed out here. Because of course, it's Kerry's stance that's hurting him, not millions in blood money from a corrupt industry spent on horseshit propaganda aimed at dimwits.

[MrBenchley]

12. Amazing, isn't it?

And not a peep of protest from those "millions of gun owning democrats and liberals" our trigger-happy friends keep assuring us are out there, somewhere...

Meanwhile, gun control groups have given 100% of their contributions to Democrats in 2004....as they did in 2002....

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?ind=Q12

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/guns/index.htm

[Romulus]

14. another reason why I haven't joined the NRA

If there was some way that my membership $$ would only go to the firearms safety side of the NRA-house (like the hadngun, shotgun, and rifle safety classes), I would become a member.

As long as they continue to pimp for the Republican party, and do so by dishonestly attacking Democrats (as my deconstruction of their talking points against Kerry showed), I will never join them.

Even if it means refusing to join the only local range with a 600-yd line (because they require NRA membership).

Edited to add:

The fact that the Brady Campaign gave 100% of their money to Democrats is meaningless as to whether every single Democrat out there is on the "ban-em-all wagon." http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=Q12

The overwhelming majority of "gambling interests" gave their money to Democrats; however, Democrats are NOT the "gambling party".
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=N07

"Health Professionals" gave the overwhelming majority of their money to Republicans. There is NO WAY the Republicans are the "health care party."
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=H01

[MrBenchley]

17. Gun control groups overwhelmingly support Democrats

"The fact that the Brady Campaign gave 100% of their money to Democrats is meaningless as to whether every single Democrat out there is on the "ban-em-all wagon.""
Gee, it's amazing that somebody who claims not to support the NRA sure seems comfortable aping their dishonest rhetoric....

Meanwhile, it certainly shows what a pantload this "gun rights is a bipartisan issue" crap really is, doesn't it?

Meanwhile the "gambling" issue seems to show that a lot of Native American groups give to Democrats, the party of equal rights for all....and not to Republicans, the party of racism masquerading as "gun rights."

[Romulus]

18. LOL - you crack me up, Benchy! (n/t)

[MrBenchley]

19. Yeah, it shows...

[MrBenchley]

33. A bit more on why Native Americans might be supporting Democrats

"WASHINGTON -- A Washington lobbyist and a close associate played a secret role in helping elect tribal council members of the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians, who later voted to pay them about $10 million for consulting work, the tribe’s chairman, Richard Milanovich, told a Senate hearing Wednesday.
The Palm Springs tribe hired lobbyist Jack Abramoff and Michael Scanlon, a political consultant who worked with Abramoff, to work on issues involving its gambling agreement with the state, Milanovich told the Senate Indian Affairs Committee.
The testimony was part of a Senate investigation into an alleged $66 million paid by newly rich gaming tribes to the two political operatives, who are said to have overbilled by 5,900 percent for voter lists and pressed tribes to pay for skyboxes at the Washington Redskins’ stadium.
Abramoff, a large donor to President Bush who is involved in several Republican groups, appeared before the committee but refused to answer any questions. He cited his Fifth Amendment right not to answer questions that would incriminate him.
Scanlon, a former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Texas, was not present and U.S. Marshals were seeking to serve him a subpoena, said Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell, R-Colo., the committee’s chairman.
Bernie Sprague, a Saginaw Chippewa council member, said Abramoff and Scanlon also helped elect a majority of the Saginaw Chippewa’s tribal council. After that, the Mount Pleasant, Mich.-based tribe paid more than $14 million to the pair, including $4.5 million for a Michigan voter database that could have been bought for $75,000, Sprague said.
Milanovich and senators also were troubled by e-mail between Scanlon and Abramoff that described their Indian clients as "monkeys," "morons" and "troglodytes."
"While there are a number of specifics that your investigation is revealing," Milanovich told the committee, "perhaps the saddest is the utterly callous fashion in which they mocked the interests of the clients they were actually hired to represent and displayed a willingness to engage in virtually any conduct so long as they could make money." "

http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/local/20040930004411.shtml

Say, wonder how Abramoff and Scanlon (assumingh they nab him) feel about gun rights? Wish we could ask their good pal and NRA board member Grover Norquist:

""We take care of our own," said one Reagan-era operative who began as a College Republican in the 1970s and now works as a lobbyist and adviser to corporations and entrepreneurs. "If you do your work in the trenches, then you get the chance to take care of yourself."
The College Republican group is an integral part of the GOP network, having served as an entry point and networking vantage for several generations of lobbyists and operatives. Among those who served as chairman or executive director were Atwater; Rove; Grover Norquist, an influential conservative activist in Washington; Jack Abramoff, a lobbyist at the law firm Greenberg Traurig; and Ralph Reed, who ran the Christian Coalition at the height of its prowess and now is a top southern consultant. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A11277-2004Jan12?language=printer

[UpsideDownFlag]

23. you know what? I really appreciated your thread.

it's nice to see pro-gunners acknowledge that the NRA can, in fact, do something wrong.

[Romulus]

24. thanks, JJ - I'll keep at it (n/t)

[FatSlob]

15. I'm not surprised. eom.

edited to add the eom

[Redneck Socialist]

16. Again, I'm shocked. n/t

[UpsideDownFlag]

20. i dont expect RKBAers to be shocked...but maybe to think a bit

about where all the political support for their hobby stems from.

[MrBenchley]

21. They might also think about

what else that political support stands for...

[UpsideDownFlag]

22. that's asking a bit much of them.

:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

25. Yup...fucknuts like Trent Lott are wrong on every issue

but one, according to our "pro gun democrats."

And not just Trent Lott...

Tom DeLay
Marilyn Musgrave
David Duke
the Aryan Nation
Larry Craig
John AshKKKroft
Pat Buchanan
Ann Coulter
Dick Cheney...

Only they know the "truth" about guns, according to our "pro gun democrats"....

[UpsideDownFlag]

26. indeed. time for another break in the lounge. nt

[Redneck Socialist]

28. From folks who think you should be able to by a gun with minimal fuss?

Or perhaps you're more interested in trying to smear Democrats with guilt by association.

[UpsideDownFlag]

29. no, not really.

[Redneck Socialist]

30. Let us review

You have, for our edification, twice now pointed out that the NRA does not support Kerry. Now that self same NRA, formerly an organization dedicated to marksmanship and gun safety, was some time back hijacked by a bunch of loonies and transformed into little more than a mouthpiece for the republican party.

Seeing as we’re at a place called Democratic Underground, home away from home for Democrats, liberals and other wayward progressives I expect that most folks here, perhaps even you, would agree with my depiction of the NRA. I also expect that it comes as no surprise to anyone here that they do not support Kerry.

If that is so, what possible reason could you have for posting, twice now, that a republican front organization doesn’t support the good Senator Kerry? It may be that you feel that insufficient attention has been give to the NRA’s dastardly shenanigans; perhaps you have some other motive. I don’t know but I’ll go out on a limb here and make a wild guess.

The NRA is bad. The NRA ostensibly supports the RKBA. Some folks who frequent DU, many of whom hang out here in the gungeon support the RKBA. It must logically follow then that because the NRA is bad and it supports the RKBA that all who support RKBA are bad.

Hmmm, I’m not so sure how sound that logic is, but how’d I do? I certainly don't mean to suggest that a fellow Democrat has some ulterior motive. That really would be bad.

[MrBenchley]

32. Upon further review, the play stands

"what possible reason could you have for posting, twice now, that a republican front organization doesn’t support the good Senator Kerry?"
You mean besides the fact that we have RKBAers falsely claiming that it's Kerry's principled stand and not this multi-million dollar propaganda campaign that is "alienating voters" hahahahaha? How about the fact that some RKBAers don't want anyone here to ever look at what's really lurking under that gun rights sheet?

"Some folks who frequent DU, many of whom hang out here in the gungeon support the RKBA. It must logically follow then that because the NRA is bad and it supports the RKBA that all who support RKBA are bad."
Gee, there's any number of OTHER reasons why the RKBA cause is rotten from stem to stern, starting with the FACT that it's a distortion of what the Second Amendment actually says and that it's major tenets are all based on outright lies. All that aside, it's an undeniable fact that some of the scummiest public figures around trumpet this gun rights crap at the top of their lungs.

I don't know how your logic is, but I notice some of the same people here who try to defend the RKBA started three threads over Kerry's "Chinese assault weapon," essentially parroting the right wing's propaganda on the bogus subject. I also notice that there's hardly ever a complaint by our "pro gun democrats" about what the gun lobby is up to....only complaints when that gets pointed out in public.

[MrBenchley]

31. You mean like Trent Lott, Tom deLay, Mark Souder, etc.

Such nice playmates the "pro gun democrats" have...and if you want to whimper about "guilt by association" perhaps you ought to look at whom you're associating with.