Gaza: Anyone else getting REALLY worried?

[LuckyTheDog]

The heck with the Fourth of July. Beat the rush! Get a blanket, pack a wheel of brie and a bottle of wine, and find a good spot in the high ground near Megiddo. The REAL fireworks should be starting any time now!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/30/israel.soldier/index.html

Seriously, though...

Gallows humor aside, I'm worried that we could be seeing the start of WWIII.

:scared: :nuke:

[greyl]

1. WWIII? How?

I think that's a tad alarmist.

[LuckyTheDog]

3. Maybe I am paranoid, but...

I'm just worried that either some Arab states will decide to come to the aid of the Palestinian Authority -- or that, if the don't, it'll cause the destabilization of some of those shaky Arab regimes and big-time unrest. This is some serious crap.

[winter999]

8. We've been in WWIII since 9/11/2001. History will show.

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. WWIII started. This is escalation on one of the front lines.

I couldn't believe it when I heard they'd 'arrested' Palestinian cabinet members...well, I could but. I just don't understand what Israel's jurisdiction is to arrest them. :shrug: If the Palestinian army went an 'arrested' members of the Israeli cabinet, it would be headlines of "Militant Hamas Kidnaps and Takes Hostage Israel Cabinet". I just don't get it.

[Skip Intro]

13. Good question. I don't understand either.

[Warpy]

4. We may be seeing an overreaction that isolates Israel

completely, and by extension, the US. Isolation is not a good diplomatic position to be in.

Throw in some bombing in Iran and the threat of another Bush invasion, and we will have WWIII.

We will not win it.

[Howardx]

5. doesnt seem to be much "searching" going on

are they hoping to find the captured guy with artillery and airstrikes?

[Poll_Blind]

6. It's what the historians will call the "Second Trimester of WW III".

The invasion of Iraq was what helped move the gestation along. When things started taking turn for the worse, especially when Israel went into Northern Gaza, I packed up my one-man tent, got on my bike, and just kept riding until I found a nice spot by the river. Threw down the tent, skipped some rocks, listened to the little frogs which are hopping all over like popcorn. I figured if I saw any blue flashes over the horizon I'd've all the news I need.

I fell asleep with my head poking out of the tent, lost in thoughts of all those far-away stars and our significance or insignificance among them.

PB

[lonestarnot]

10. Poll _Blind, you did the right thing.

[Tesha]

7. I've been worried since Nixon let Israel become a nuclear power.

A little pre-emption back then might have saved us WW-III soon.

Tesha

[Turbineguy]

9. Palestine is a broken state

if the Israelis stop tormenting them, they'll kill eachother. Arafat destroyed the place. It will take decades to fix. At the end of the day, they have to co-exist with Israel.

[donsu]

14. they are broke because america and Israel broke them

and now we are starving them

[Howardx]

15. cue up the "anti semetic" name calling

you dared to criticize israel

[Poll_Blind]

21. They're backlogged but they WILL get around to this thread. n/t

PB

[Tom Joad]

30. Broken what? Just FYI, Palestine is under occupation.

39 years, and still people have missed the news.

[Drops_not_Dope]

11. Hey Lucky.....

Israel has 8000 bunker buster bombs, (reported on FOX news 2 years ago) Gaza is isolated and without a Jew to keep it land locked, and the decider doesn't seem too interested in a peace process or recognizing Palestine's right to exist. What's to worry about? We'll glide into Armageddon without even noticing. Then all the fundies can live happily-ever-after.

[LuckyTheDog]

12. Can we have the Rapture now?

I can't wait for the Rapture. Then maybe the rest of us will be able to get some work done. :evilgrin:

[hogwyld]

16. Israell will cease to exist within my lifetime

ONce the Arab nations have the bomb, Israel's going to pay for it's arrogance. :nuke:

[Poll_Blind]

20. Nah, I can't believe they'd nuke Israel which would assure their...

...own annihilation. However, I certainly imagine it would force conservative Israeli political leaders to use a little more thought when using (or more appropriately, misusing) their top-shelf U.S. weaponry in the region.

PB

[hogwyld]

23. Let's see, 6 million or so jews...

and close to a billion arabs surrounding them. Besides, if say Iran gives some terrorists a few nuke devices to smuggle in, who is Isreal going to retaliate agains? Besides, at it's narrowest point, Israel is only about 10 miles across or so between the west bank and gaza, effectively cutting the country in 2.

[Poll_Blind]

26. They would nuke at least Iran, and probably Syria. n/t

PB

[Tom Joad]

31. What sick nonesense.

Very violent, very sick, hogwyld. I don't know what your agenda is, but the words are sick.

[cali]

35. I think it's time

someone pointed out that your remarks really are anti-semitic, and I don't particularly like seeing them here. Most posters in this forum, even those who strongly dislike Israel, are not anti-semitic, and I've never made such a charge before, but when the shoe fits, I'm not going to be intimidated by the "you're using anti-semitism to stifle debate card" comments that may well follow this post. Your eagerness to see Israel and it's 6 million Jews obliterated has been displayed on another thread.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

25. oh yea, i always forget to only blame israel...

cause it never takes two to tango :eyes:

[Tom Joad]

34. That's right, where would a robber be without a victim?

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

36. Its amazing how people can turn something that is amazingly complicated

into a simple binary that doesn't describe anything. heck of a job :thumbsup:

[cali]

37. heh.

nuance not required. Just bring loads of righteous indignation and inflamatory language.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

38. seems to do the trick with this topic on DU

:hi:

[Tom Joad]

40. Everything is complicated. However, I think some people seem to make

some things unclear. Some do this purposely. Others are easily persuaded. I think i was in the latter category until i took the time to look at the issues. What i found it was no more complicated (or less) than the US support for death squads in Central America, its war on the people of Vietnam, its wars on Iraq.

Israel has been involved in an illegal occupation of another people's land for nearly 40 (forty) years.
It has annexed territory taken by military force (a clear violation of international law)
At this moment, the lives of thousands hang in the balance... even clean drinking water may not available in the next day or two for the people of Gaza. This is a clear war crime.

Yes, in Palestinian resistance to the occupation there has been terrible violence. Some of it against civilians, which is deplorable. However, it seems the clear solution to that is to end the root cause, that is the occupation. The Israeli government has made clear it intends to make the occupation permanent, and in the West Bank, intensify it.

Right now, we need to end the siege. While we are sitting here, people of Gaza are dying, make no mistake. They are once alive, now due to the attacks on the US-insured power plants, by US supplied F-16 fighter jets, people will die. (I suppose that can be called a binary simpleness-- people are either alive.. or dead) Not "terrorists" not "fighters", but children and old women and people in need of health care who will not be able to receive it. Or food. Children are hungry, and not receiving proper nutrition, as a direct result of Israeli military action. That is all very clear. It is not helpful for people to obfuscate while people are dying, in our name.

[cali]

32. Hmm.

And do you consider that a fitting punishment for arrogance? What does it say about any Arab nation that would use a nuke on Israel- or any other country? Surely you realize that if you nuke Israel, you nuke Palestinians and Muslims as well. Israel does have a population of approx. 1 million Palestinians.

[Poll_Blind]

17. An invitation to the Israel/Palestine forum...

HERE is a link to the Israel/Palestine forum.

NOTE: Messages posted in this forum are covered by a long series of rules and subrules in addition to the regular rules which cover transactions on Democratic Underground. HERE is a link to those rules.

Read them.

Understand them.

Love them or hate them but follow them.

Then post. It's a little investment of time and understanding which will benefit you greatly.

PB

[sabra]

22. thanks for the post... appreciate it.

[uppityperson]

27. how do you make it flash like that? It's a cool effect

[Tesha]

18. The SF Chronicle seems concerned...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/30/MNGJIJN77N1.DTL

Goal of Israel's military action is questioned
Is it to free captive soldier, teach Hamas a lesson or topple Hamas government?

Matthew Kalman, Chronicle Foreign Service

Friday, June 30, 2006

(06-30) 04:00 PDT Jerusalem -- Israeli leaders found themselves under fire from all sides Thursday as the crisis over kidnapped soldier Cpl. Gilad Shalit dragged into another day without any sign of a breakthrough.

"The purpose of our intended actions is not to punish the civilian Palestinian population, but to achieve the central aim right now -- to return our boy Gilad home," said Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Shimon Peres, the normally dovish deputy prime minister, said Israel was justified in sending troops to Gaza and staging mass arrests of Hamas politicians in the West Bank. The military operation had broader goals than just the return of the kidnapped soldier, he said.

The Palestinians "have to decide if they are a government or if they belong to a terroristic organization," said Peres. "There was a hidden hope that Hamas, once they built a government, they will change, they will improve their behavior, they will become responsible. To our great disappointment, they became part of their terroristic arm."

But across the Israeli political spectrum, critics wondered whether the military operation could succeed, or whether Olmert and his new, largely untested Kadima-led government would be unable to deliver his chief promise to voters -- a withdrawal from remote parts of the West Bank.

<more>

[Malikshah]

24. Hmmmm... Quiz for those who know their history...

Grapes of Wrath?

Peace for Galilee?

Do these ring a bell?

[pelsar]

28. more history...

war of 48 (arab goals)
war of 67 (arab goals)
war of 73......

katuahsa on n.Israel 1980s

hamas intentions......

iranian statements?

any of those ring a bell?

[Malikshah]

39. Ooooh... Sorry, but a C at best on the history quiz

War of 48...When did it really begin. Plan D anyone? When did over 200,000 refugees get created? Before or after May 15?

War of 67... Who attacked its neighbors? Who attacked its ally? What did Moshe Dayan say about the threat to Israel?

War of 73... What were the goals of Asad and Sadat? How did they attempt to achieve them? What were they willing to sacrifice?

1980s??? N. Israel-- How about Beirut and S. Lebanon. What sorts of rockets were used in these bombings (in Lebanon) Munitions???

Iranian statements? Please provide an accurate translation for said statements. Also do a comparison/contrast with statements by Dayan, Meir, Ben-Gurion, Begin, Rabin, Sharon, and others.


Let us tell the WHOLE history. Not just bits and pieces that make us feel all warmy and fuzzywuzzy inside.

Try again.

[Tom Joad]

33. The stated goal of the Olmert govt is to keep large pieces of the West

Bank, just so people know.

[katty]

19. yes, worried about this...Israel has always been the wild card

[Poll_Blind]

29. Less the wild card and more the crooked dealer, in my opinion.

The U.S. owns the casino and they both share a cut of the ill-gotten gains.

PB