UN: 70% of Palestinian youth oppose violence to resolve conflict with Israel

[Fozzledick]

Nearly 70 percent of Palestinian young adults believe the use of violence to resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not very helpful, according to a United Nations Development Program (UNDP) study released Tuesday.

Only 8 percent believe violence is an important tool, the study, based on interviews with 1,200 Palestinians over the age of 17 in the West Bank and Gaza.

The study also found out that more than 80 percent of young Palestinians are depressed, and 47 percent identify themselves as Muslim rather than Palestinian.It found that 39 percent were "extremely" depressed and 42 percent were depressed by their conditions. Depression was more marked in the Gaza Strip where 55 per cent said they were "extremely" depressed.

When asked to define their identity, 47 percent identified themselves as Muslims, 28 per cent as Palestinians, 14 percent as humans and 10 per cent as Arabs.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1075465.html

On the one hand, I take this as a hopeful sign that common sense just might prevail in spite of everything. :woohoo:


On the other hand, I can't help wondering what the official party-line denial will be: are 70-92% of Palestinian youths traitors to the Jihad Crusade Iranian agenda nationalist cause, or is the United Nations Development Program an Israeli puppet?
:popcorn:

On the third hand, what does it mean that only 14% identified themselves as "humans"? Could it be a Reptilian plot? Have they seen the fnords?:tinfoilhat:

[Idealism]

1. Perhaps they see themselves as Servants?

Or did you not think of that...

According to several posters here, the UN is biased. This means that really, all Palestinians are terrorists. Right?

[bemildred]

2. So this is good, right? Peace loving Palestinians who just want to get along. nt

[GoesTo11]

3. A mixed bag at best

80% depressed can't be that good.

[Fozzledick]

9. I can't blame them given their situation

It seems like the natural reaction, if anything I'd worry more about the other 20% being in denial.

The question is what to do about it, lash out in blind rage or realize that rebuilding begins after the violence ends.

[Fozzledick]

8. OK, you got me, I gotta agree with you this time.

Don't worry, I'll try not to make a habit of it. :evilgrin:

[MADem]

4. Maybe they can teach their parents a thing or two.

I don't blame them for being depressed. It sucks to live in that environment.

[LeftishBrit]

5. An encouraging sign...

though the unemployment statistics and reported depression are very sad.

I assume that all the people interviewed consider themselves to be humans, Palestinians, Arabs, and (in the vast majority of cases) Muslims; but they were given a choice as to their primary identity.

[Fozzledick]

10. I'm trying to preempt my own trollish inclinations...

I just know that sooner or later someone around here will accuse someone else of thinking that Palestinians aren't human, and it will be just so tempting to cite this as evidence that they don't think of themselves that way and watch them try to make sense out of it.:evilfrown:

Seriously, though, I find it encouraging that such a large percentage of those in such a rotten situation appear to have transcended the limitations of nationalism and religious sectarianism to see themselves from a broader perspective.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

6. How unfortunate that 80% of Israelis support massacre to resolve conflict.

[Fozzledick]

11. How unfortunate that you misrepresent wanting to stop being shot at as "supporting massacre"

How self-destructive that you use this as a pretext to advocate continuation and escalation of the violence.

How truly tragic that you don't comprehend that serious negotiations toward a genuine solution will only begin after the violence has ended.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

12. How tragic that you don't comprehend that Israel's land gluttony isn't a response to

violence.

That polling evidence is hard to dismiss Fozzle. Most Israelis supported that massacre of those people. Period. They saw the same dead bodies on TV that I saw.

[Fozzledick]

13. Well excuse me if I DO see Israelis' callousness to Palestinian concerns as the obvious reaction

to 60 years of genocidal war and unrelenting terrorism directed against them.

And approving the stopping of the missile attacks against them by any means necessary isn't supporting massacre no matter how hard you try to spin it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

14. If Ze'ev Jabotinsky a man who virtually founded the Israeli right

--a man unashamed and unapologetic of his racism and advocacy for the use of terror -- if even he could recognize that Zionism was above all a colonizing enterprise and that all indigenous people throughout the history of the world have resisted and would resist as long as they had a gleam of hope an alien usurpation of a land they had every natural right to consider their homeland - if he could recognize that reality way back in 1923 when the Israeli state was still a dream...I would surmise that modern 21st century liberals 60 years after the establishment of the Israeli state should be able by means of natural human empathy to conceive of that too.

"Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of foreign settlement. This is how the Arabs will behave and go on behaving so long as they possess a gleam of hope that they can prevent Palestine from becoming the Land of Israel".

--Ze'ev Jabotinsky 1923

--------

An back in 1897 following the First Zionist Conference:

"After the Basel Congress the rabbis of Vienna decided to explore Herzl's ideas and sent two representatives to Palestine. The fact-finding mission resulted in a cable from Palestine in which two rabbis wrote, "The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man."

From page 3, "The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World by Avi Shlaim.

-------------------

later David Ben Gurion David Ben-Gurion as quoted in "The Jewish Paradox" by Nahum Goldmann, former president of the World Jewish Congress:

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but 2000 years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?"

link: http://www.commondreams.org/views/112800-106.htm

---------------------------

The fact that the vast majority of younger Palestinians are now embracing nonviolent struggle - is wonderful thing. But throughout history and throughout the world today, indigenous people have always fought with whatever means were available in defense of their homelands.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. Exponential land theft and settlment is not "callousness to Palestinians."

It's against the Geneva Conventions. It has occured since day one of occupation in 1967 and it is not a form of punishment.

It's just... Zionism?

[Igel]

7. "not very helpful"

I have no idea what that means. It's like "I don't recommend that you take that course"--it can mean "I recommend that you don't take that course" or, less commonly, "It is not the case that I recommend that you take that course". You need context.

If I say something "doesn't help" or is "unhelpful" I might mean that I think it hurts. "Look, stop it, you're not helping." I could add, "you're making it worse," and often do, but that's redundant. If that's what's meant in the survey results, then it's a good thing--70% of younger Palestinians think the violence is hurting their cause, that the violence is making their cause less achievable (at least in the short term).

Now, it's a purely utilitarian, self-centered way of looking at it, but I guess beggars can't be choosers. After all, it leaves open the possibility that, given a change in conditions, violence *would* help. The problem isn't the violence, it's the lack of success. Having them say "violence is wrong" on moral or ethical grounds and not just on the grounds of "what's in it for me" would be a large improvement. But I guess a survey in those terms wouldn't be very helpful. Many would probably find it a let down in their fight against something or other.

The other way of reading the survey results is not that "doesn't help" --> "it hurts" but "doesn't help" simply implies "does not further our goals." If something doesn't further our goals (since the semantics of negation are a bit different) it might well just be neutral wrt those goals. This is less encouraging: It's merely stating that the violence doesn't get them any closer to the goal. Under this reading, it doesn't say they think the violence should be stopped, unless we know that's the only goal.

It would be nice to have the actual wording of the question. Sometimes it's a pain to have been asked for judgments involving the scope of anaphor binding, quantification, and negation or to have studied them. You just can't stop evaluating things for alternative readings after a while.

The depression numbers are, well, depressing. Perhaps learned helplessness, with the workable paths to reaching at least most of their goals judged to be worse than lack of success. Of course, we want to interpret them in the most utilitarian way possible--lack of jobs and wives and such, because that makes the solution (oddly enough) easier.