Doha Debate on BBC:'This House believes it's time for the US administration to get tough on Israel'

[Douglas Carpenter]

The Doha Debates are a unique venture in the Arab world, providing a battleground for conflicting opinions and arguments about the major political topics of the region

Coming up this weekend on the Doha Debates...

SHOWING TIMES

0710 GMT on Saturday 4th April

Repeated: 1510 and 1910 on Saturday 4th, 0010, 0710, 1510 and 1910 GMT on Sunday 5th April

for times to watch on the BBC on Saturday 4 and Sunday 5 April - this weekend:

http://www.bbcworldnews.com/Pages/Programme.aspx?id=48

for local times in your area:

http://www.bbcworldnews.com/Pages/Schedules.aspx

for written transcript of the debate:

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=102637817

'This House believes it's time for the US administration to get tough on Israel'

http://www.bbcworldnews.com/Pages/Programme.aspx?id=48

SPEAKERS

FOR THE MOTION

Michael Scheuer, former head of the CIA's Bin Laden Unit

Michael Scheuer is the former head of the CIA's Bin Laden Unit. He worked for the CIA for almost 20 years in covert action and national security issues related to Afghanistan, South Asia, and the Middle East before resigning in 2004.

Mr. Scheuer is the author of several books including 'Marching Toward Hell: America and Islam After Iraq' and 'Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terrorism'

Avraham Burg, former Speaker of the Israeli Knesset

Avraham Burg was a leading figure in Israeli politics for more than 20 years and a senior member of the Labour Party. In 1999 he became the youngest speaker of Israel's parliament, the Knesset, a position he held until 2003.

He left the parliament for several years in 1995 to become the Executive Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel. He also served as Deputy Chairman of the World Jewish Congress and Co-Chair of the World Jewish Restitution Organisation.

Mr. Burg is also the author of several books including 'The Holocaust is Over; We Must Rise from Its Ashes,' and 'God is Back' which he examines the need for the separation of religion and the state.

AGAINST THE MOTION

Dr. Dore Gold, former Israeli Ambassador and Foreign Policy Adviser

Ambassador Dore Gold is President of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs and a former Israeli adviser and diplomat. He was the Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations from 1997 to 1999 and served as an adviser to two former prime ministers, Benjamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon.

Dr. Gold has been involved in several peace initiatives including the 1998 Wye River negotiations between Israel and the PLO and the Madrid Peace Conference. He has written numerous books and articles on the Middle East, including 'US Military Strategy in the Middle East' and 'The Fight for Jerusalem'

Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law Professor

Alan Dershowitz is a well-known lawyer and the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. Newsweek has called him "the nation's most peripatetic civil liberties lawyer and one of its most distinguished defenders of individual rights."

He is the author of 27 books including the New York Times bestseller, 'The Case for Israel,' as well as 'The Case for Peace' and 'The Case Against Israel's Enemies: Exposing Jimmy Carter and Others Who Stand in the Way of Peace'

http://www.bbcworldnews.com/Pages/Programme.aspx?id=48

link for transcript:

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=102637817

[leveymg]

1. That was a seriously rough conversation. Excerpt:

That segment was taped recently here in Washington, D.C. the focus: whether the Obama administration should ,quote, "get tough on Israel," unquote. Arguing the affirmative the debater said that the current U.S.-Israel relationship undermines national security.

Unidentified Man #1: Can America defeat a pro-Israel fifth column of U.S. citizens that corrupt U.S. politics and foreign policymaking and amount to the most lethal threat to the state of Israel? For renewed post-war ties Israel must take five actions to help destroy the fifth column that has made Israel the most arrogant, avaricious and treacherous U.S. ally.

MARTIN: Arguing the negative, the debater said it would be dangerous to break relations with America's greatest ally in the Middle East.

Unidentified Man #2: There could be no worse time to get tough with our strongest ally in the Middle East - to single out Israel as the one nation to get tough with. Getting tough on Israel is more likely to produce bloodshed than to produce peace.

MARTIN: Here to talk about the debate is Tim Sebastian, a former BBC correspondent. He founded the Doha Debates in 2004 and moderates the discussion. He's here with me now in our studio in Washington, D.C. Welcome, thanks for joining us.

Mr. TIM SEBASTIAN (Founder and Moderator, the Doha Debates): I'm pleased to be here. Thank you very much.

MARTIN: A member of our team attended the taping of the debate at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. - and spirited, clearly the word to use. I have a short clip of an exchange between Harvard University law Professor Alan Dershowitz and former speaker of the Israeli Knesset, Avraham Burg. Here it is.

Mr. AVRAHAM BURG (Former Speaker of the Knesset, Israel): So it is not getting tougher but it's an option…

Dr. ALAN DERSHOWITZ (Professor of Law, Harvard): (unintelligible) Prime Minister, what do you have? What would you prefer? Do you agree with that analogy (unintelligible)

Mr. BURG: (unintelligible) getting tougher.

Dr. DERSHOWITZ: (unintelligible) getting smart.

Mr. BURG: (unintelligible) about vocabulary. This is not (unintelligible)

Dr. DERSHOWITZ: You (unintelligible)

Mr. SEBASTIAN: Excuse me. Excuse me. You've made the point. I'm going to take a question from the gentleman over there on the left.

MARTIN: Excuse me.

Mr. SEBASTIAN: Excuse me. Yeah, rough stuff. Rough stuff.

MARTIN: Excuse me. Yeah, well…

Mr. SEBASTIAN: It's rougher than in the Gulf, really.

MARTIN: And I was going to ask you about that. I can relate to the feeling of being more referee than moderator. Is this a typical exchange in one of these debates?

Mr. SEBASTIAN: This was pretty spirited by comparison. I mean, we do have people who feel passionately about the views they espouse, but this was pretty rough stuff. And I put it down to the fact that we were talking about a sensitive issue. There are strong feelings about it and I think we hit some raw nerves there. But that's fine. At the end of the day we had a civilized discussion. People agree to disagree. They walked away. They didn't fight. They didn't throw punches afterwards. I kind of expected they might, but they didn't.

MARTIN: Seriously? Or are you just being funny?

Mr. SEBASTIAN: No. No. I…

MARTIN: You really thought that it might get…

Mr. SEBASTIAN: I thought it could get rough. We have security there just in case.

MARTIN: (unintelligible)

Mr. SEBASTIAN: But it wasn't necessary in the end.

MARTIN: How did you come up with the concept to begin with?

Mr. SEBASTIAN: I was in Qatar in 2004 and I was lucky enough to be invited to a lunch with the amir, the ruler. He explained what he was doing with the country and how he wanted to open things up a bit. He said, have you got any ideas? I said, no, but I'll go away and think about it. And I came up with the idea of town hall debates, thinking that if they really want to talk about controversial issues in a region where nobody talks about anything except under very strict censorship, then let's give it a try.

We gave it a try. We started in 2004, and the rest is history. We have aired some very, very controversial issues.

MARTIN: And just to clarify, there is no prior discussion with the government of the topics.

Mr. SEBASTIAN: There's no prior - there's no discussion of any kind with the government about topics, about what is said during the course of the debate or, interestingly enough, who is invited.

MARTIN: How do you choose your topics? And they are often ones that generate intense discussion. I'll give an example. This house believes that after Gaza, Arab unity is dead and buried. This house believes that political Islam is a threat to the West. This house believes that Gulf Arabs value profit over people. None of these are easy.

Mr. SEBASTIAN: These are not gentle subjects.

[geek tragedy]

2. Alan Dershowitz is John Yoo redux. n/t

[Howardx]

3. dershowitz was a rude asshole

color me surprised.

[shira]

4. some human rights conference when Arab leadership is too busy having a lovefest with Bashir of Sudan

Then there was the sorry spectacle involving Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, who has been indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity and war crimes in relation to the Sudanese government's alleged role in Darfur killings. The summiteers gave al-Bashir a hero's welcome in Doha, and used a final communique to side with al-Bashir and categorically reject the ICC's indictment. This came on top of al-Bashir's recent move to expel international humanitarian groups from Darfur, a move that further endangers the lives of hundreds of thousands of Sudanese, in retaliation for an ICC-issued warrant for his arrest. The Arab League effectively thumbed its nose at the U.N., which has called on Sudan to cooperate with the ICC, the same U.N. whose resolutions the Arab League demands Israel accept in its disputes with Arab states. Wasn't it the height of hypocrisy that Arab leaders would rail against the ICC for prosecuting al-Bashir, while at the same time proposing at the summit the prosecution of Israeli leaders for the recent Gaza war that left 1,300 Palestinians dead? The Arabs hardly advance their cause when they so blatantly display the double standards they never tire of accusing others of practicing.


http://mideast.blogs.time.com/2009/04/01/the-doha-spectacle/

Conclusion:
Much better to have 2 million dead Sudanese than 1400 Gazans - congrats Mr. al-Bashir, let's all kiss your ass!

:eyes: