Anti-Semitism vs. Anti-Zionism

[bluesoul]

By Uri Avnery

A Hungarian Joke: During the June 1967 war, a Hungarian meets his friend. "Why do you look so happy?" he asks. "I heard that the Israelis shot down six Soviet-made MiGs today," his friend replies.

The next day, the friend looks even more jubilant. "The Israelis downed another eight MiGs," he announces.

On the third day, the friend is crestfallen. "What happened? Didn't the Israelis down any MiGs today?" the man asks. "They did," the friend answers, "But today someone told me that the Israelis are Jews!"

This is the whole story in a nutshell.

<snip>

Source: http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery01192004.html

[Resistance]

1. Thanks for posting

The Left is lucky to have Uri Avnery on our side.

[Jim Sagle]

2. What do you mean, "our" side?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Resistance]

10. Sharon is a rw extremist killer

this is not moderation.

[Jack Rabbit]

11. Sharon is a moderate?

I believe it was Marlon Fitzwater, who served in the first Bush adminstration the role that Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan sherved in the junta, who said speaking of some Iranian politicians favored by the US who were have their moderate credentials challenged: Moderate is a relative term.

Well, it is. Relative Benny Elon, Sharon is a moderate.

Exccuse me, Lurking Dem, but I'll put that one down beside the one about Sharon being a man of peace.

[Lurking Dem]

14. Israeli moderates.

You want right wing? Bibi.

Yes, it is all relative.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. It may be relative...

...but it still doesn't make Sharon anything other than a right-winger. What yr pointing out is that some right-wingers are more to the right than others, not that Sharon isn't right-wing...

Violet...

[bluesoul]

16. Some

are extreme, and some are even more extreme. Does that mean we liberals/progressives should welcome those that are "only" less extreme RW... :eyes:

[number6]

12. :o ! LOL

"governed by Moderates at the moment."
er okie dokie

[The Stranger]

18. This post is incorrect.

There was no accusation of anyone supporting anyone. There was an explanation as to why some people consider themselves against the government of Israel.

[tinnypriv]

19. I think you ought to take your own advice

No offense.

After that, try looking up some recent Likud dicussion on "transfer" (influential people like Uzi Cohen for example).

These guys are so blatant they show off maps of Eretz Yisrael and Jordan/Palestine for the cameras.¹

If you can't be bothered to google, for your information, the GOI is currently run by a combination of the center(-right), the right, and the extreme-right.

To quote a moderate Israeli commentator, if you take out Shinui the GOI would be considered a "distained felon".²

-----

1. Photography by Amir Meiri, in Ma'ariv, 4 Jan 2004.
2. Op-ed, Niv Baram, Ma'ariv, 7 Jan 2004. This is by no means an isolated comment.

[bluesoul]

20. LOL

Tinnypriv :yourock:

[sabbat hunter]

21. right and left....

is all relative to the country. for example party A in a country might be considered left wing in the US but in that country it is considered a moderate party.

likud in israel is a right of center party (it is not extreme right as there are parties to its right (ultra nationalists and religious parties mostly).
labor party in israel is a left of center, there are parties to its left, therefore it is not an extremist party.

neither likud or labor by themselves are right or left wing. both are slightly off center, as by israeli party standards.

the major problems arise in the fact that the small extremist parties hold a lot of sway in israel in forming governments. only a small percentage is needed in order to gain seats in the knesset.

Likud has historically, and most of the time unfortunately, chosen to align itself (in order to form a government) with the extremists parties.

i think it would be best for israel's political stability, if labor and likud would join forces in a government of national unity (although i think right now even combined, with no other parties, they do not make up a majority) a third party would be necessary.

in that gov't of national unity changes in what percentage of votes are needed to elect a meber of knesset should be enacted, thereby limiting the extremists power.


thoughts?

peace
david
:hippie:

[The Stranger]

17. Israel is governed by a right wing government.

And most "Democratic Undergrounders" are of the left wing.

[madrchsod]

3. is it me?

..i can`t quite figure out what the hell he was talking about.maybe it`s to complex for monday morning

[bluesoul]

4. Reading the whole article

might help...

[seventhson]

5. It certainly is a relief...

to have someone who is an Israeli Jew put into words those things which are extremely difficult to articulate well and which often end up sounding like antiSemiticism.

I am often afraid to discuss these issues here or anywhere for fear of this accusation which chills the dialogue and ultimately, I believe, damages Israeli prospects for peace.

The right wing in Israel and here in the US are the purveyors of the BIG LIE: If you criticize us you are evil.


Without constructive criticism and dialogue, though, there can be no reconciliation and meaningful and peaceful resolutions.

As long as the BIFG LIE goes unchallenged Israelis will suffer under the leadership of tyrants and demagogues just as we suffer here in the US.

Thanks for posting this.

[Gimel]

6. Much truth

This is basically a writing of abstract reasoning. I agree with almost everything said. I do have some criticism, which I won't deal with now, as it is rather minor on the whole.

However, what I mostly agree with, is that there is a little bit of racism in every country, and even a little bit of a racist in every person. In times of crisis, that racist thinks it's safe to come out, to point a finger and make an expression. It can be political, social or an artistic expression.

By the way, the artist Dror Feiler, an ex-patriot Israeli, did not create the "Snow White and the Madness of Truth". His Swedish wife did. A small point, as he also performed music for the event to accompany the art work.


It can be argued that Mazel played into Feiler's hands, by giving his work attention it did not deserve. It can be said that Mazel behaved undiplomatically. Both are true. But we're past the point where we can pretend that the demonization of Israel will go away if we don't call attention it.

As for "diplomacy," Mazel was communicating his point in the only way possible. A formal protest would merely have been "duly registered," filtered and lost in the back channels of European diplomacy. So he chose to scream. But screaming was the only option Europe now gives Israel.

Now we are told that Mazel's response was inappropriate. But what would have been the appropriate response by Israel's representative to depicting the spilt blood of its citizens by "Snow White" as a form of art? Perhaps a strongly-worded letter to the editor?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1074423603934

Note that this "art" is not called anti-Semitic. It is anti-Israel and that, as has been pointed out is sometimes difficult to distinguish from anti-Semitism.

[Jack Rabbit]

7. Excellent work from Mr. Avnery

Well written and well reasoned.

Like Ms. Gimel, I might take issue with minor points, but on the whole the piece is laudable.

Uri Avnery is a hero and a man of peace.

[Name removed]

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