Israeli Democracy?

[Violet_Crumble]

Life for journalists wanting to enter Israel is getting harder. During my interrogation at Ben Gurion airport, Tel Aviv, I was asked if I knew any violent Palestinians. Responding in the negative I was told, "Well, we think you do, but we can accept that you don't know that you do -- but you do". The Israeli state sees all Palestinians as potential terrorists - it regularly rounds up all Arab men between 18 and 30 in many areas and interns them without charge - and so anyone who associates with them is, at best, an 'unwitting associate' of terrorists. This view now seems to be extended to politically engaged journalists such as myself.

Tired staple of writing theory as it is, to write well you need to write about what you know, and to know well what you are writing about. Through my political activism I know well the Palestinian communities that I lived in. It is ironic, however, that this time I had actually come to Israel to write about the Israeli side of the struggle -- the Israeli left and peace movement.

It is very important to diversify the representation of Israel within the peace movement and within the national media arena, because for most people, including most Palestinians, Israelis are seen only as soldiers: killers and snipers. Civil disobedience by peace and justice movements within Israel is largely invisible. Israeli peace forces such as Tay'Ush, the Arab-Jewish partnership for peace, Anarchists Against the Wall and the growing refusniks movement represent a mounting Israeli consciousness, vital to resolving the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. This is, of course, anathema to the political right within Israel, who's Final Solution for the Palestinians is the squeezing out of Palestinian communities through the division of the West Bank and the enlargement of already illegal settlements.

Israel likes to define itself as the only democracy in the Middle East. Democracy means a plurality of views, of voices and of positions; the fact that I write from a left-wing position should not render me voiceless. When what can be said, or heard, or read, is decided by those in power, it can lead to a social psychosis, a false reality; and this is not just undemocratic but also totally delusional and destructive to any society. The human rights violations committed by the Israeli army are a reality many supporters and citizens of Israel would like to ignore and would like to deny. Recently when I told a former soldier about the killing of Baha Al Bahesh, a fourteen year-old boy from Nablus, that I saw two years ago, I was told, "You dreamed it". I also saw peace activist Brian Avery have his face blown off by a .50 calibre bullet shot from an Israeli armoured personnel carrier in Jenin last year. "You're wrong, it came from the Palestinians"' was the answer. Writing about life in occupied Palestine -- investigating, witnessing and actually trying to prevent human rights violations is a form of activism, and communicating those human rights abuses to a wider audience is an essential part of my advocacy journalism.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=6119

[babylon_system]

1. Israel is a democracy like apartheid South Africa

Jews are more equal than non-Jews in the Jewish state. How Americans could possibly imagine that Israel is a democracy defies the imagination. One of the funadamental aspects of democracy is freedom from religious discrimination. Israel is based on an ideology of religious discrimination, Zionism. If Israel was a representative democracy that treated indigenous non-Jew Palestinians as equals, it would cease to be a Jewish state. To maintain its Jewish character, Israel engages in systematic discrimination and oppression of the non-Jewish population. These discriminatory policies are the root of the Israeli-palestinian conflict that has now exploded into a global war between the US/Israel and the Muslim world. Now, the Bushite Christian fundamentalists think this conflict presages the Rapture and Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Good job Israel. Armageddon is on the way.

[bemildred]

2. It's very like the USA, that's why.

A national security state with a carefully controlled
democratic veneer. Ask most Americans and they will say the
USA is democratic and that we are "free", but anyone who knows
a bit of the rest of the world knows that there are nations that
are far more exemplary of both, and that most nations have a good
deal more personal freedom, in the sense of being left alone to
"pursue happiness" than we do.

[babylon_system]

3. Israel is worse than the USA prior to the Emancipation Proclamation

or womens' suffrage movement. Fully half of the native population is disenfranchised, forced to live as refugees under military occupation, and denied basic human rights.

If Jews were forced to live under the conditions that Jews enforce on Palestinians, the world would cry out against the genocide and the US would take action to defend the victims of oppression.

Instead, the US sends Israel more weapons and aid to continue the occupation year after year, decade after decade. Yet Americans are so ignorant of their complicity with Israeli atrocities that they could still ask "Why do they hate us?" on 9/11.

[bemildred]

4. I cannot agree with worse.

Slavery was a far worse evil than what is done in the territories.
This is not intended to condone or justify anything, but one has to
defend the integrity of language or we all wind up talking gibberish.

[babylon_system]

5. You have the luxury not to live in the Occupied Territories

as a regugee under Israeli military occupation.
Not having US-supplied Apache helicopter gunships blasting your children to pieces makes it easy for you to accept Israeli atrocities and dismiss criticism as gibberish.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/israel_and_occupied_territories/index.do

[Darranar]

8. "This is not intended to condone or justify anything". n/t

[bemildred]

10. Well, apparently, some have the luxury of being ignorant

about American history.

[babylon_system]

13. History is replete with crimes against humanity

Slavery was a horror that lasted from the 1600s to 1865 in the USA - far too many years in a supposed democracy. The Nazi Holocaust was also an incredible evil chapter in history in a nation that prided itself as the pinnacle of civilization. Will you judge which case was worse?

US aid to Israel continues to fund the discrimination, oppression, torture and outright mass murder of non-Jews every day, today, yesterday and tomorrow, in a nation that pretends to share US values of democracy, human rights and equality.

Will you tell me again that current Israeli atrocities funded by your taxes and supported by both US political parties are not so bad as historic slavery?

[bemildred]

17. Less name calling is good.

Slavery is ubiquitous from the beginnings of civilization.
Do you know the origin of the name "slav" for the slavic peoples?
The American version was particularly egregious on a number of
grounds, most particularly the racist component used to justify
it. The Nazis certainly were second to none, I would even put them
ahead the of the Mongols. Still, one must consider the Japanese in
Manchuria. US values of "democracy, human rights and equality" are
largely bullshit, we talk the talk but have never walked the walk
that well, and have always had an intense streak of xenophobia.
And yes, I will re-affirm that judgement.

[babylon_system]

22. Americans who lack outrage over Israeli atrocities

should not be outraged over 9.11 either.
It's all part of the same equation.

[bemildred]

25. I was not at all outraged about 9-11.

My first impression was to be impressed, although the method
used was obvious, the discipline and organization demonstrated
were impressive. I had thought of the method myself on a couple
occasions while waiting to land. I also noticed the choice of
targets, they knew exactly what they wanted to attack, which is
one reason I am not much fearful of the terrorists, they are not
pissed at ordinary citizens; and that is also one reason why the
ruling elites went bananas, they did not expect to be targeted
themselves with such effect. Racism makes you stupid.

[Darranar]

21. "US values of democracy, human rights, and equality"...

The US government pays attention to those values even less than Israel does.

[bemildred]

9. Very amusing.

I'm "pro-Israeli" again, I see.

[babylon_system]

14. Apologist maybe

Maybe just poor choice of words. Gibberish.

[bemildred]

19. In this case, I will happily assume the mantle of Israeli apologist.

It's a novel idea, but what the heck.

[Classical_Liberal]

26. I think you misunderstand bemildred

She is hardly an apologist. It is always wise to lurk awhile before you post. She is simply objecting to hyperbole, not saying that what is going on the West Bank is not an outrage. It is an outrage, but it isn't the Holocaust yet. Nor is it the trail of tears.

[bemildred]

27. I thought it was the use of "gibberish" that set things off.

I'm a "he" BTW, but thanks for taking up the cudgel in my defense.
Your analysis is correct, the cause of justice is ill served by
simplistic black-and-white descriptions of events, good and evil
are not racial or cultural characteristics. The situation in
Palestine is pernicious and it has pernicious effects and it needs
to be remedied forthwith, but it adds little to that to demonize
anyone who merely has the misfortune to live there, Arab or Jew
alike, or to pretend that it matches up with the worst atrocities
that humans have committed, it is rather ordinary along those lines
from what I can tell.

[Darranar]

7. Well...

one important difference is that in one case, those "disenfranchised" aren't actually living in the state they're theoretically supposed to vote in, but rather in territory occupied by that particular state.

I don't think there's that much racism involved in this particular case. America is, like most other states, concerned with its own interests, and as a result doesn't much care how many Palestinians Israel kills or oppresses, as long as they serve their purpose (or appear to). Saudi Arabia has a whole bunch of blatantly anti-semitic policies, but that doesn't stop "Our Great Leader" from being their faithful friend and ally.

[babylon_system]

11. The Jewish state of Israel was built on stolen Arab land

Your weak propaganda compares Israel's blatant discriminatory policies, the country built on stolen Palestinian land disenfranchises and oppresses millions of native-born Muslims and Christian Palestinians with billions of dollars in funding and weapons from the US taxpayer, with the immigration policies of Saudi Arabia, a country with no native Jewish population that receives no aid from the US government.

How is the weather in Tel Aviv?

[Darranar]

16. The US government obviously supports anti-semitic regimes...

such as that of Saudi Arabia. It also supports Israel, which has several anti-Muslim aspects, especially in their administration of the Occupied Territories. This rather clearly demonstrates that the US government has higher priorities than concern over the racist policies of a government.

The level of direct support certainly differs. But I think this is more attributable to the military power of Israel and the importance of keeping it under US control than any real revulsion at Saudi Arabia's racist policies, especially considering that Saudi Arabia's government attains funds from oil revenue sufficient to keep themselves in power (they've been rather biddable, so as long as no one replaces them the US isn't too concerned), and is less important as a military power in the region than Israel is.

[babylon_system]

20. Israel is military power thanks to the USA

You must be naive and/or very young. What gibberish.

[Darranar]

23. Before the US began granting large amounts of aid to Israel...

Israel had other sources - France and Czechoslovakia, to name two.

Furthermore, Israel spends a huge amount on the military, I believe it has the highest amount of money spent per capita on the military in the world. All that money isn't wasted.

[bemildred]

12. I see you too are an Israeli stooge.

:hi:

[babylon_system]

15. You two should sip on some mint juleps together

while watching over the Palestinian laborers on the Jewish settlements.

[Darranar]

18. Apparentally so...

the way this is going, maybe someone will call me a war-mongering right-winger sooner or later. :)

At least it's different from the usual "America-hating anti-semitic terrorist-loving communist" stuff.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. Darranar! Yr nuthin but a...war-mongering-right-winger!!!!

Sorry. Couldn't resist ;)

You and bemildred being labelled as Israeli stooges is one of the more bizarre things I've seen happen lately...

I want to be an Israeli stooge too!!

Violet...

[number6]

6. Life for journalists...getting harder

"Life for journalists wanting to enter Israel is getting harder. During my interrogation at Ben Gurion airport, Tel Aviv, I was asked if I knew any violent Palestinians. Responding in the negative I was told, "Well, we think you do, but we can accept that you don't know that you do -- but you do". The Israeli state sees all Palestinians as potential terrorists -..."

yes I can imagine ...