Questions about Rumsfeld on 9/11

[ewagner]

Musing in my coffee mug this morning and something struck me as strange and I hope you folks can help me solve this question about Rummy on the morning of 9/11.

First, we know that the procedures for authorizing military shoot-downs of civilian airliners was changed on or about June 1, 2001. (We'll ingonore the obvious question Why the hell did anybody think it needed to be changed? ) and merrily accept the fact that Rummy himself was the big fish who had the authority to authorize shootdowns.

Second, from Paul Thompson's timelines, there is some evidence that Rummy was on the video conference with Richard Clarke from a time shortly after the second tower was hit. Yet, Rummy apparently played no role in organizing defenses or getting/seeking authorization to intercept the hijacked airliners. (Remember, at some point during that morning, the FAA thought there were as many as 11 airliners acting suspiciously.)

Third, after the Pentagon is hit, Rummy apparently leaves the video conference and goes outside to assist with the wounded and doesn't get in touch with anybody again until after 10:30: After everything is over.

So this raises some questions:

Why wasn't Rummy an active participant in organizing the defenses that day? After all, the directive placing Rummy directly in the chain of command was apparently instigated by Rummy himself.

Why did Rummy leave his post to go out and assist the wounded when he is a key player in the chain of command?

How the hell could Rummy have known that there weren't more planes and more attacks coming? How could he have left his post not knowing how many aircraft were still in the air or if the attacks were over?


I find this puzzling.

Opinions?

[rfranklin]

1. Same reason Bush sat around that classroom...

They had to let it unfold without interference. Or they were monumentally incompetent. Take your choice.

[ewagner]

2. Of all the behaviors that day

I think Rummy's is the one that bothers me most.

[izzie]

3. I read they were also having war games that day.

Why was he running around out side? Well photo-op and one likes to see what was going on. As for the others they seemed to be off in la-la land. Married to a man who rode nukes for years I find this beyond belief.

[ewagner]

5. According to most accounts

Rummy isn't informed that Cheney has confirmed the shootdown order with Dubya until AFTER he comes back in from carrying strechers.

I find this unimaginable.

The mind just boggles.

[pberq]

4. Jets were not intercepted

Can someone please point me to a link that says that SOP was changed so that Rummy had to give the shoot down order?

This still does not explain why the hijacked jets were not intercepted. I'm sure everyone has heard the Paine Stewart story, and the fact that planes that go off course are routinely intercepted by fighter jets within ten minutes.

Here's something I qouted on another thread, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1819543#1820501

from David Ray Griffin. The Boston Globe quote is from Sept. 15, 2001, called, "Facing Terror Attacks Aftermath", by Glen Johnson:

"If Flight 11 had thus been intercepted but did not respond, it would, according to standard procedures, have been shot down. Marine Corps Major Mike Snyder, a NORAD spokesman, after telling the Boston Globe that NORAD's 'fighters routinely intercept aircraft,' continued:

"When planes are intercepted, they typically are handled with graduated response. The approaching fighter may rock its wings to attract the pilot's attention, or make a pass in front of the aircraft. Eventually, it can fire tracer rounds in the airplane's path, or, under certain circumstances, down it with a missle."

[ewagner]

6. Trying to find the link

The actual text of the directive was posted up here a week or so ago and I'm trying to find the exact text....and the link.

[pberq]

7. Did Rumsfeld relly have the authority?

Below I have lifted a section of the first chapter of David Ray Griffin's The New Pearl Harbor, hoping that fair use copyright rules apply.

As he says at the end, this discussion is only about flight 11! By the time we get to Flight 175, the lack of SOP is even more glaring. Whether or not Rumsfeld had the shoot-down authority, there has been no explanation why the hijacked jets were not intercepted according to SOP.

"So, even if the FAA had waited until the plane went off course at 8:20, the plane should have been intercepted by 8:30, or 8:35 at the latest, again in plenty of time to prevent it from going into New York City.
As to what would occur upon interception, Ahmed explains by quoting the FAA manual:

Rocking wings from a position slightly above and ahead of, and normally to the left of, the intercepted aircraft.... This action conveys the message: "You have been intercepted." The commercial jet is then supposed to respond by rocking its wings to indicate compliance, upon which the interceptor performs a "slow level turn, normally to the left, on to the desired heading ." The commercial plane then responds by following the escort. ⁷

If Flight 11 had been thus intercepted but did not respond, it would, according to standard procedures, have been shot down. Marine Corps Major Mike Snyder, a NORAD spokesman, after telling the Boston Globe that NORAD's "fighters routinely intercept aircraft," continued:

When planes are intercepted, they typically are handled with graduated response. The approaching fighter may rock its wingtips to attract the pilot's attention, or make a pass in front of the aircraft. Eventually, it can fire tracer rounds in the airplane's path, or, under certain circumstances, down it with a missile. ⁸

The question raised by critics, of course, is why this did not happen in the case of Flight 11. Why was the plane not even intercepted?

Some confusion about this matter, they point out, was created by Vice President Cheney during an interview on "Meet the Press" on September 16, in which he suggested that the "question of whether or not we would intercept commercial aircraft," as well as the question of whether it would be shot down, was "a presidential-level decision." This statement, point out the critics, confuses two matters: intercepting and shooting down, and interception is a routine matter, which occurs well over a hundred times a year. ⁹ The confusion of these two matters was also aided by General Richard Myers, then Acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, ¹⁰ in testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee on September 13, in which he stated: "After the second tower was hit, I spoke to the commander of NORAD, General Eberhart. And at that point, I think the decision was at that point to start launching aircraft."" He, like Cheney, implied that fighters would be sent up to intercept flights only if ordered to by commanders at the highest level. But interception occurs routinely, as a matter of standard operating procedure, even if shooting down a plane would be, as Cheney implied, "a presidential-level decision."

Moreover, although some researchers have accepted the view that a hijacked plane could be shot down only with presidential authorization, ¹² Thierry Meyssan points out that the military regulations seem to say otherwise. According to these regulations,

In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA. The NMCC will, with the exception of requests needing an immediate response... forward requests for DoD assistance to the Secretary of Defense for approval. ¹³

Accordingly, concludes Meyssan, the regulations give the responsibility for shooting down hijacked airplanes "to the Secretary of Defense." Furthermore, as the phrase beginning "with the exception" shows, if the Secretary of Defense cannot be contacted in time, other people in the line of command would have the authority. According to a Department of Defense document cited by Meyssan:

It is possible to formulate to any element in the chain of command "Requests needing Immediate Response." These arise from imminently serious conditions where only an immediate action taken by an official of the Department of Defense or a military commander can prevent loss of lives, or mitigate human suffering and great property damage. ¹⁴

According to this reading, many people in the line of command would have had the authority to prevent the "loss of lives" and "great property damage" that occurred when AA Flight 11 slammed into the North Tower of the WTC.

One might argue, to be sure, that at that time no one would have known that the plane was going to do that. But, critics of the official account would reply, that argument—besides not explaining why Flight 11 was not at least intercepted—would not apply to the second plane to crash into the WTC."

[John Doe II]

8. Rummy as Bush as Myers had no urgence to do whatsoever

Rummy is indeed a person that should be looken at more closely.

Here so far what I found out about his strange lack of any urgency in 911.
For the Hyperlinks please check this page:
http://11september-paxamericana.chez.tiscali.fr//Scene7.htm

When the Pentagon was hit:

Donald Rumsfeld: Then I went downstairs and went outside. And around the corner and of course, there it was.
<…>
Charles Gibson, ABC NEWS: Among those helping the wounded and injured is the 69-year-old Rumsfeld himself.
(c)


Torie Clarke, Assistant Secretary of Defense: I don't know if you had heard about that there, but Secretary Rumsfeld was
one of the first people out there after it happened.


The attack happened to be “in the portion of the building on side
opposite from where Rumsfeld's office are located.”



The length of each outer wall of the Pentagon is 921 ft. <281 metres>.



Charles Gibson, ABC NEWS: The Secretary of Defense is outside the burning building, while inside the Pentagon …
Brigadier General W. Montague Winfield, US Army: For 30 minutes
we couldn't find him. And just as we began to worry, he walked into the door of the National Military Command Center.
(c)


“10:30
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld enters the National Military Command Center.”
(c)

One and a half hour after the WTC was hit the second time.
55 minutes after the Pentagon was hit.
24 minutes after Flight 93 crashed.

What telephone calls or which discussion of the defense budget
can be so important that the Secretary of Defense didn’t enter the NMCC earlier?


The morning of 911in Donald Rumsfeld’s own words:

Donald Rumsfeld: I had said at an 8:00 o'clock breakfast that sometime in the next two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve months there would be
an event that would occur in the world that would be sufficiently shocking that it would remind people again how important it is to have a strong healthy defense department that contributes to -- That underpins peace and stability in our world. And that is what underpins peace and stability. <…>
And someone walked in and handed a note that said that a plane had just hit the World Trade Center.
And we adjourned the meeting, and I went in to get my CIA briefing --
Larry King, CNN: Right next door is your office.
Donald Rumsfeld: -- right next door here, and the whole building shook
within 15 minutes.

Between the second hit and the attack on the Pentagon lay
32 minutes not
15.

Larry King, CNN: It was a jarring thing. And you ran toward the smoke?
Donald Rumsfeld: Uh huh.
Larry King, CNN: Because?
Donald Rumsfeld: Goodness. Who knows? I wanted to see what had happened. I wanted to see if people needed help. I went downstairs and helped for a bit with some people on stretchers.
Then I came back up here and started –
I realized I had to get back up here and get at it.


“Then” was 55 minutes after the Pentagon was attacked.

This is the third different account of Rumsfeld’s activity after the WTC was hit.
Did he do some phone calls,
continue to discuss the defense budget
or did he get his CIA briefing?

[medienanalyse]

9. all of them had alibis for sitting on their hands

and there is nothing "puzzling" anymore if you regard 9/11 as an inside job. See: www.medienanalyse-international.de/rumsfeld.html

with the most accurate account in the web of his behaviour in the morning of this day.

[paulthompson]

11. one thing I'd like to know...

Is just where are Rumsfeld's office and the NMCC? Are they across the hall from each other, as one account says? MA, you have a map on that page, but I don't see Rumsfeld's office on that.

[medienanalyse]

13. Rumsfelds office

The map is not mine and I am unable to draw one of my own.
But:
Rumsfelds and Wolfowitz`offices are, as the "war room" situated in the third and fourth floor close to the main entrance which looks over the potomac river and Arlington.

So the diameter is about 1380 feet to the impact point, plus two times the five rings which makes 20 outside walls and some more inside walls plus the steel beams - and all this was tested in the October 2000 Mascal simulation.

[paulthompson]

10. Rumsfeld

This is a very timely thread, because I'm working on updating some Rumsfeld stuff right now. I'm finding there are more internal contradictions to Rummy's official story than even previously reported. For instance, Cox has him predicting a future terror attack just two minutes before the Pentagon crash, but Rumsfeld says he's left that meeting fifteen minutes earlier to get a CIA briefing.

Lot of strange stuff. I'm still trying to get a hang of it. Here's some various blurbs about him on that day:

Rumsfeld: I had said at an 8:00 o'clock breakfast that sometime in the next two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve months there would be an event that would occur in the world that would be sufficiently shocking that it would remind people again how important it is to have a strong healthy defense department that contributes to -- That underpins peace and stability in our world. And that is what underpins peace and stability.

In fact we can't have healthy economies and active lives unless we live in a peaceful, stable world, and I said that to these people. And someone walked in and handed a note that said that a plane had just hit the World Trade Center. And we adjourned the meeting, and I went in to get my CIA briefing --

King: Right next door is your office.

Rumsfeld: -- right next door here, and the whole building shook within 15 minutes.

King: It was a jarring thing. And you ran toward the smoke?

Rumsfeld: Uh huh.

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/alibis/defenselink1.html



Torie Clarke: 8:45 when we realized a plane and then a second plane had hit the World Trade Center <…> immediately the crisis management process started up. A couple of us had gone into the secretary's office, Secretary Rumsfeld's office, to alert him to that, tell him that the crisis management process was starting up. He wanted
to make a few phone calls. So a few of us headed across the hallway to an area called the National Military Command Center.

He stayed in his office.




Christopher Cox, Republican Representative: At 9 a.m. EDT Tuesday, as a hijacked Boeing 767 slammed into the World Trade Center, I was in the Pentagon in the private dining room of the Secretary of Defense. Don Rumsfeld, the Secretary, and Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Secretary, and I were discussing how to win votes for the Bush defense plan that is now pending in the House and Senate.

When minutes later, the Pentagon itself was hit by a Boeing 757 loaded with civilian passengers, virtually the entire building was immediately evacuated. I escaped just minutes before the building was hit. Most of those who remained were huddled in the National Military Command Center in a basement bunker of the building. From there, America's military response is being directed even now.

Ironically, just moments before the Department of Defense was hit by a suicide hijacker, Secretary Rumsfeld was describing to me why America needs to abandon its decade-old two-major-war strategy, and focus on the real threat facing us in the 21st century: terrorism, and the unexpected.




If you look at Cox's statement, it's bizarre how Cox contradicts himself. How can he escape "just minutes" before the building is hit, yet be talking to Rumsfeld "just moments" before the building is hit? Is Cox literally the only person in the Pentagon tipped off to evacuate it before the crash? In another source, Rumsfeld's prediction to Cox is made two minutes before the hit.

[paulthompson]

12. Here's another Cox contradiction I just found

"This is what I thought was most ironic. He said, 'Let me tell ya, I've been around the block a few times. There will be another event.' And he repeated it for emphasis," Cox said. "And within minutes of saying that, his words proved tragically prophetic."

Rumsfeld was then told of the planes crashing into the World Trade Center and "he sped off, as did I," Cox said.

"I headed immediately to my car and on the way back to the Capitol I had the radio on and learned details that indeed turned my stomach," Cox said.

from:

Rep. Cox, D-Calif., Was in Pentagon Just Before Jet Crash

by Sharon Theimer
The Associated Press
September 11, 2001

So what about Rumsfeld's claim that he was still in his office when the Pentagon was hit?

Here's what the latest 9/11 Commission report has to say about him:

In most cases the chain of command in authorizing the use of force runs from the President to the Secretary of Defense and from the Secretary to the combatant commander. The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld briefly sometime after 10:00, but no one can recall any content beyond a general request to alert forces. The President and the Secretary did not discuss the use of force against hijacked airliners in this conversation.

The Secretary did not become part of the chain of command for those orders to engage until he arrived in the NMCC. At 10:39, the Vice President tried to bring the Secretary up to date as both participated in the Air Threat Conference

and:

As this exchange shows, Secretary Rumsfeld was not involved when the shoot down order was first passed on the Air Threat Conference. After the Pentagon was hit, Secretary Rumsfeld went to the parking lot to assist with rescue efforts. He arrived in the National Military Command Center shortly before 10:30. He told us he was just gaining situational awareness when he spoke with the Vice President, and that his primary concern was ensuring that the pilots had a clear understanding of their rules of engagement.

---

So Rumsfeld is supposedly just starting to figure out what's going on at 10:30! Give me a break!

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. Here's the text of Cox's statement from his website

http://cox.house.gov/html/release.cfm?id=33

Chairman Cox's Statement on the Terrorist Attack on America

At 9 a.m. EDT Tuesday, as a hijacked Boeing 767 slammed into the World Trade Center, I was in the Pentagon in the private dining room of the Secretary of Defense. Don Rumsfeld, the Secretary, and Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Secretary, and I were discussing how to win votes for the Bush defense plan that is now pending in the House and Senate.

When minutes later, the Pentagon itself was hit by a Boeing 757 loaded with civilian passengers, virtually the entire building was immediately evacuated. I escaped just minutes before the building was hit. Most of those who remained were huddled in the National Military Command Center in a basement bunker of the building. From there, America's military response is being directed even now.

Ironically, just moments before the Department of Defense was hit by a suicide hijacker, Secretary Rumsfeld was describing to me why America needs to abandon its decade-old two-major-war strategy, and focus on the real threat facing us in the 21st century: terrorism, and the unexpected.

"When I worked on the ballistic missile threat commission , there was an 'event' every few months that focused the attention of those in denial," he told me. "For example, India shocked the world when it detonated a nuclear device. Then Pakistan. Then North Korea launched a two-stage ballistic missile over Japan.

"Terrorist groups, some state-sponsored, are developing these same missile capabilities as we meet here. They are developing the chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to go with them.

"They do not have all the pieces yet, but they will. That is why Congress has got to give the President the tools he needs to move forward with a defense of America against ballistic missiles, the ultimate terrorist weapons.

"If we remain vulnerable to missile attack, a terrorist group or rogue state that demonstrates the capacity to strike the U.S. or its allies from long range could have the power to hold our entire country hostage to nuclear or other blackmail,'' he said.

"And let me tell you, I've been around the block a few times. There will be another event." He repeated it for emphasis: "There will be another event."

Within minutes of that utterance, Rumsfeld's words proved tragically prophetic.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. Here's an interview with Wolfowitz about 9-11 on the DOD site

One is, where were you on September 11th? Were you at the Pentagon when --

Wolfowitz: I was in my office. We'd just had a breakfast with some congressmen in which one of the subjects had been missile defense. And we commented to them that based on what Rumsfeld and I had both seen and worked on the Ballistic Missile Threat Commission, that we were probably in for some nasty surprises over the next ten years.

Q: Oh, my gosh.

Wolfowitz: I can't remember, then there was the sort of question of what kind of nasty surprises? I don't remember exactly which ones we came up with. The point was more just that it's in the nature of surprise that you can't predict what it's going to be.

Q: Do you remember then the impact of the plane into the Pentagon? Or had you first heard stories about New York? What was --

Wolfowitz: We were having a meeting in my office. Someone said a plane had hit the World Trade Center. Then we turned on the television and we started seeing the shots of the second plane hitting, and this is the way I remember it. It's a little fuzzy.

Q: Right.

Wolfowitz: There didn't seem to be much to do about it immediately and we went on with whatever the meeting was. Then the whole building shook. I have to confess my first reaction was an earthquake. I didn't put the two things together in my mind. Rumsfeld did instantly.

Q: Did he really?

Wolfowitz: Yeah. He went charging out and down to the site where the plane had hit, which is what I would have done if I'd had my wits about me, which may or may not have been a smart thing to do. But it was, instead the next thing we heard was that there'd been a bomb and the building had to be evacuated. Everyone started streaming out of the building in a quite orderly way. Congregated on the parade ground basically right in front of the Pentagon which would have been about the worst place to have a crowd of a couple of thousand people in that moment if we'd again had our wits about us. But we were out of the building anyway.

Q: Let me ask you then about the next couple of days. There is --

Wolfowitz: Just to complete it. We went back into the building and that was an experience I won't ever forget. There was a huge fire, there was smoke gradually filling -- not all, just the small number of us who were basically in the command group. Rumsfeld was there and General Myers who was still the Vice Chairman at that point. The Chairman was on his way back from overseas and I was there. We were in the National Military Command Center and there was this acrid smoke gradually seeping into the place. Rumsfeld simply refused to leave. He finally made me leave, which I was not happy about.

I went up to this bizarre location that was prepared to survive nuclear war.

Q: Really?

Wolfowitz: Yes.

Q: In the Pentagon.

Wolfowitz: No, no. Way out of town.

Kellems: That's why he left, was to separate them.

Q: I see.

Kellems: To provide continuity.


http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030509-depsecdef0223.html

[John Doe II]

16. $ 1.000.000 question

Here's the big question:
If on June 1, 2001 the procedure was changed and Rumsfeld's agreement was needed then can please somebody explain to mee or just give any possible reason why he evidently didn't enter the NMCC and why the hell nobody asks the question in the media or during the investigation. I agree medienanalyse. And somehow it looks to me that Rumsfeld's lack of urgency is more disturbing than Myers' and even Bush's. So anybody ready to answer?

[medienanalyse]

17. About some deviations and red herrings

Thank you for your agreement, John Doe.

1. The question about the change of procedures is important but not essential. The procedure to SCRAMBLE jets was not changed. Air policing means to keep fighter jets in QRA status (quick reaction alert), it is a NATO procedure, it is decades old and was essential in the cold war, and it was only reduced in the QUANTITY of fighters in QRA. That is 14 on 9/11.
The final decision to shoot or not was NOT POSED as a problem to Rumsfeld because the jets were not scrambled.

So this part of the procedures is irrelevant in fact, but would habe been relevantly if some lonesome fighter would have been colose to the planes (against all prders, obviously). On 9/11: no issue.

2. Andrews is the main point. This AFB has fikfgters in QRA as Jared Israel proved and as some incidents later proved too. Logic says the same: the capital city of the U.S.A., where additionally presidents of all countries come and go (and need escorts on the last miles), where AF#1 is stationed
all this says: Andrews should have scrambled jets.

3. Simulations and exercises, repair and maintain procedures and whatever do NOT interfere with the QRA status of the pairs of fighters. Not logically and not in fact. The fighters are on sentry 365 days a year and 24 hours per day, for ANY kind of problem in the air.



Conclusion: Nice to examine procedures and simulations and exercises. BUT NOT IMPORTANT ABOUT the FACTS of 9/11.

If we add CIMIC facts (an Faa official all the time present in the NMCC, 30 FAA ATCs all the time present on Andrews besides the military ATCs) we see there was NO DELAY of possible decisions.

Put Rumsfelds, wolfowitz and Bushs alibis into these facts: it is so simple to see they are the perpetrators.

[medienanalyse]

18. no answer ? Where is the inddictment and the

lawsuits against Rumsfeld, at least because of criminal negligence?

Where is the movement in the U.S.A. to force that?

Or must I conclude it is much finer for some "researchers" to talk about "mysteries", to put "questions", to be dedicated to pexels and holes and UFOs instead of being responsible to get the perpetrators?

[John Doe II]

19. I agree, medienanalyse and need a bit of help

I agree, medieananalyse.
We should mainly concentrat on the hard, clear-cut facts and ask the tough questions. And the one concerning Rumsfeld's behaviour surely is a highly important question only based on facts. So everybody who can explain me Rumsfeld's behaviour may step forward.
Just one question, medienanalyse, you've said that the June 1, 2001 change didn't imply that Rumsfeld had to give his approval for fighters to scramble. I heard the contrary, checled the original document and got a bit lost to be honest, then I found this article by the New York Observer:

"What’s more, the decades-old procedure for a quick response by the nation’s air defense had been changed in June of 2001. Now, instead of NORAD’s military commanders being able to issue the command to launch fighter jets, approval had to be sought from the civilian Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld. This change is extremely significant, because Mr. Rumsfeld claims to have been "out of the loop" nearly the entire morning of 9/11. He isn’t on the record as having given any orders that morning. In fact, he didn’t even go to the White House situation room; he had to walk to the window of his office in the Pentagon to see that the country’s military headquarters was in flames.

Mr. Rumsfeld claimed at a previous commission hearing that protection against attack inside the homeland was not his responsibility. It was, he said, "a law-enforcement issue."

Why, in that case, did he take onto himself the responsibility of approving NORAD’s deployment of fighter planes?
http://dangerouscitizen.com/Articles/1156.aspx

So can you please help me out eg to show the change in the procedure that according to you doesn't imply Rumsfeld's approval!
Thanks a lot

[John Doe II]

20. Rumsfeld's approval needed for scramble or shoot down order?

I checked out http://www.medienanalyse-international.de/rumsfeld.html
but it's still for me not clear if Rumsfeld's approval was needed for any scramble order or for the shoot down order. In both cases tough questions remain:
If his approval was needed in order to scramble fighter why the hell is there no impeachement. His lack of urgency was clearly responsible for the loss of human lifes.
If his approval was "only" needed for the shoot down order why nonetheless is there no impeachement as it would and could have been necessary to give such an order before 10:30. Moreover why did the Independent Commission only discuss the phone calls between Bush and Cheney (if there really was an order given by Bush) to clarify who and if somebody, at what time gave the order and when the pilots were informed.
Why does nobody really seem to care?
Does anybody feel save in the US with people in charge that lack any sense of urgency?

[Abe Linkman]

21. Weird "coincidence" for the bush apologists (b,l,merc,) to try and smear

Apologists for the "Wacky, But Fiendishly-Clever Cavepeople Did It" Conspiracy Theory often try to dismiss things that can't be refuted, by
saying: "it was just a coincidence". Right.

Here's a interesting observation on a very crucial coincidence...or NON-coincidence, in my opinion.


http://www.xymphora.blogspot.com/