911 Commission shifts the timeline

[k-robjoe]

911 Commission Staff Statement --June 17, 2004 :

News of an incoming aircraft (later discovered to be American 77) prompted the Secret Service to order the evacuation of the Vice President just before 9:36. The Vice President entered the underground tunnel that led to the shelter at 9:37. Once inside, Vice President Cheney and the agents paused in an area of the tunnel that had a secure phone, a bench, and a television. The Vice President asked to speak to the President, but it took time for the call to be connected. He learned in the tunnel that the Pentagon had been hit, and saw television coverage of smoke coming from the building.


This conclusion is in direct contradiction to the testimony of Sec. of Transportation Norman Mineta before the 911 Commission on May 23, 2003 Link:

Sec. Mineta: ..during the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” Well at the time, I didn’t know what all of that meant.

<...>

Secretary Mineta: I arrived at the PEOC at about 9:20 A.M. and the President was in Florida and I believe he was on his way to Louisiana at that point when the conversation that went on between the Vice President and the President and the staff that the President had with him.

Tim Roemer, Commissioner: So when you arrived at 9:20, how much longer was it before you overheard the conversation between the young man and the Vice President, saying: Does the order still stand?

Secretary Mineta: Probably about five or six minutes.

http://www.libertythink.com/2004_06_13_archives.html#108762990232427401

[k-robjoe]

1. Who to believe?

Remember that story about Cheney and the military aide saying “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” ?

Mineta said it happened as flight 77 was coming in. At close to 09:30. ( See original message. )

Now the comission says it happened at 10:10 to 10:18, and the reason they were still worried even if flight 93 had allready crashed, is because they were relying on a display that showed the projected path, and were not aware that the plane had allready crashed. Who to believe?

"At 10:02,the communicators in the shelter began receiving reports from the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft —presumably hijacked —heading toward Washington.That aircraft was United 93.The Secret Service was getting this information directly from the FAA.The FAA may have been tracking the progress of United 93 on a display that showed its projected path to Washington,not its actual radar return.Thus,the Secret Service was relying on projections and was not aware the plane was already down in Pennsylvania.217 At some time between 10:10 and 10:15,a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out.Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft.218 His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive,“in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing.”The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane.He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President.The military aide returned a few minutes later,probably between 10:12 and 10:18,and said the aircraft was 60 miles out.He again asked for authorization to engage.The Vice President again said yes."
http://vivisimo.com/search?input-form=simple&query=between+10%3A10&v%3Asources=911&v%3Aproject=911&x=45&y=15

[LizW]

2. The timeline of the 9/11 Report doesn't make any sense

if you consider Richard Clarke's account of events.

I've been looking specifically at Cheney's, Rice's and Bush's whereabouts and the phone calls made to each other during the early part of the crisis and finding stuff that just doesn't work.

1st phone call (Rice to Bush): between 8:55 and 9:00; after Bush arrived at the school and before he entered the classroom. She leaves him with the impression that they don't know anything. He speaks of it as a "terrible accident". Rice may or may not have already sent for Richard Clarke at this time. He got the message shortly before 9:03 and headed immediately for the White House. It would be important to know just when Rice thought the anti-terrorism chief should be involved.

Clarke gets in his car at 9:03 and tells one of his staffers he will be at the WH in "less than five". He's three blocks away. She calls him back when he's almost at the WH and tells him about the second hit. He parks askew in the parking lot, runs into the WH and bursts into Cheney's office. Rice is there. He tells Cheney and Rice immediately that it is an Al Qaeda attack and that it may not be over. All this time, and until 9:15, Bush is sitting in the classroom in Florida.

2nd phone call (Rice/Bush/Cheney): 9:15 or shortly after, while Bush is still at the school. They brief him, and discuss the statement he will make to the press and public.

Now, here's where it gets strange: according to Clarke's account in his book, he was in Cheney's office very quickly. He says he ran there and "burst in". He doesn't stay there very long, but leaves with Rice and they go the the Situation Room and start the video conference. Cheney and Rice do not talk to Bush while Clarke is there. Rice leaves to go to the PEOC to be with Cheney before Clarke starts the conference, which is underway, according to his book, before 9:28. But according to the 9/11 Report, Cheney didn't leave his office to go to the PEOC until 9:36, and the Report also concludes that the White House teleconference was not underway until 9:37. Clarke says he told Rice before she left the Situation Room that he needed an open line to Cheney and to her, and he sent Mike Fentzel with her to set it up.

I tend to believe Clarke's version of the timeline, at least in this instance, because he relates what he was doing to some firm times. For instance, in between Bush's public statement (9:30) and the Pentagon crash (9:37) Clarke picks up the supposedly open line to Cheney and gets a dial tone. He dials the PEOC and gets Mike Fentzel. He tells Fentzel they need an order to shoot down hostile aircraft, and they need fighter cover for Air Force One when it takes off from Florida. This makes sense, because according the the 9/11 report, Cheney wasn't in the PEOC until about 9:55. From 9:37 until 9:55 he was in the tunnel leading to the PEOC and talking to Bush on the phone. Presumably Fentzel went and found him and gave him Clarke's message immediately.

3rd phone call (Bush/Cheney): sometime after 9:37 to 9:55. Not clear who made it, but Cheney was in the tunnel leading to the PEOC, and Bush was either in the car or on Air Force One. This is the call that Cheney said "took some time to be connected." There is no record of what was discussed.

Now, here's where the Report moves the timeline: Clarke says that Mike Fentzel calls back from the PEOC and tells him that AF1 is about to take off, that fighter escort is authorized, and that the President has given the order to shoot down hostile aircraft. Clarke relays this information to both Rumsfeld and Myers, who are both on the video conference. This happens around 9:55 to 9:59, because Clarke recalls that it was after this and several other conversations (including one with the FBI where they tell him that some of the names on the passenger lists are Al Qaeda) that the first tower collapsed (9:59). The 9/11 Report glosses over this phone call between Bush and Cheney and focuses instead on the phantom 10:10-10:15 phone call that no one recorded in their notes.

4th phone call: (Bush/Cheney) 10:00-10:15 This is the call in which everyone now insists that Bush gave the shoot-down authorization. This was, of course, some minutes after 93 was already down (10:03 or 10:06).

5th phone call: (Bush/Cheney) around 10:18. Yet another call to confirm the shoot-down order.

Now, don tinfoil hats with me for just a minute here: I have never thought that 93 was shot down, because I bought that there wasn't time. I thought the reason for insisting on the phantom phone call was to cover Cheney's ass and to make clear that he didn't usurp presidential authority and issue the order. But I see a clear pattern of the Report trying to push the shoot down authorization later than it might have actually occurred, AND making every effort to break any apparent chain of communication between those giving the order and those responsible for carrying it out. The Report says of the White House video conference, "We do not know who from Defense participated, but we know that in the first hour none of the personnel involved in managing the crisis did." Well, what exactly does Donald Rumsfeld do? He was there. He was on the conference when it started, according to Clarke, he was on it when the Pentagon was hit at 9:37, and for some time afterward, even moving to a different studio so he could stay on the conference when smoke started to fill the room he was in. Richard Myers was also on the conference, filling in for Hugh Shelton who was out of the country.

The 9/11 Report seeks to diminish the significance of the White House video conference, but these were the Principals. If they weren't the ones managing the crisis, who was?

What would be the purpose in shifting the timeline to make the shoot-down order come later?

And why cut Rumsfeld and Myers out of the equation, when they were right there, talking to the WH Situation Room during the whole crisis?

I realize that one possible explaination is that the whole thing was just FUBAR, a Keystone cops thing where everyone was running around with no idea who was supposed to do what or how to do it. But that is not pleasant to contemplate. I would actually rather think that we shot 93 down, although then I would have to wonder why the Commission would go to such great lengths to try to cover that up.

[k-robjoe]

3. Link

The commission says Cheney was evacuated just before 9:36. (Quote 1). ABC news quotes David Bohrer, saying it was just after 9 a.m. (Quote 2) (What ABC news/ David Bohrer says fits with Norman Minetas testimony.)

1) "911 Commission Staff Statement --June 17, 2004 :
News of an incoming aircraft (later discovered to be American 77) prompted the Secret Service to order the evacuation of the Vice President just before 9:36. The Vice President entered the underground tunnel that led to the shelter at 9:37."

2) "Just after 9 a.m. ET on Sept. 11, 2001, Vice President Dick Cheney was in his West Wing office when two or three agents came in and told him "Sir, you have to come with us," according to David Bohrer, a White House photographer who was there.
One of the agents "put his hand on the back of my belt, grabbed me by the shoulder and sort of propelled me down the hallway," Cheney said." http://abcnews.go.com/onair/DailyNews/sept11_moments_2.html

The ABC news clearly operates with the same timeline as Mineta does. Here is Mineta recalling speaking to Monte Belger (This is before 09:30) :

"Someone came in and said, 'Mr. Vice President, there's a plane out 50 miles,'" Mineta said.
Mineta conferred with Federal Aviation Administration Deputy Chief Monte Belger. "I said … 'Monte, what do you have?'" Mineta said. "He said, 'Well, we're watching this target on the radar, but the transponder's been turned off, so we have no identification.'" http://abcnews.go.com/onair/DailyNews/sept11_moments_2.html

Also in this transcript ( http://billstclair.com/911timeline/2002/abcnews091102.html ), the ABC news operates with the same timeline as Mineta. I assume that they have established this timeline based on the statements from all the people they have interviewed for this program.

It seems clear that the "flight 77 countdown" did indeed happen (there was a kind of countdown with flight 93 as well, but not as dramatic, judging from the ABC interviews), and the commission has been fed lies to cover it up, and serves desperate lies about what happened from 9:00 to the Pentagon crash. Seems like what is being covered up is what happened and didn´t happen as flight 77 was coming in...

[Abe Linkman]

4. The public will always believe the "Cavemen Did It" lies.

The masses* are easily fooled and it's nearly impossible to get very many people to even consider that the Gov't has lied to them about 9/11.

* not so, the people here at DU. just ask the Official Conspiracy sales reps who post here!