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k-robjoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 01:02 PM
Original message
R. Joseph
Edited on Thu Aug-12-04 01:06 PM by k-robjoe
There is a chapter from a book by R. Joseph up at APFN.

Excerpt :

"Several of the hijackers had been identified, and placed under surveillance by U.S. intelligence agencies prior to 9/11. Four of them were even identified, as potential hijackers, by a passenger, in August, who became alarmed by their "obvious" intentions, and this information was passed on from the FAA to the FBI."
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=62537;title=APFN ( On edit : Browse down halfway, and look for R. Joseph. )

The episode that this is referring to would be this one :

"In a February 2002, television interview with Woods, that was conducted by Bill O'Reilly of Fox TV's "O'Reilly Factor," Woods stated that he was on a first class passenger, on a flight from Boston to Los Angeles before the September 11th attacks and that he sat with four passengers who have all since been identified as September 11th hijackers. Woods claimed that he was so alarmed by the strange behavior of the four men during his flight, that he told a flight attendant and a co-pilot that he feared the men were going to hijack the plane.(...)
Although Woods stated in the interview that he did not personally contact the FBI until after September 11th, he maintains that a report was indeed filed by the flight crew of his August 1st, 2001, flight and that the report went directly to the FAA regarding the suspicious behavior of the four men for further investigation. Whether the FAA did anything with that report, or passed it on to U.S.intelligence sources is not known."
http://www.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=7651

But here it says that it is not known whether the report was passed on or not. Joseph states it as a fact. Does anyone know?

Another excerpt :

" As detailed in court records, Ali Mohamed, an Egyptian-born U.S. citizen, was also a CIA spy and an FBI informant (8,9). Ali Mohamed trained Osama bin Laden's bodyguards, and was linked to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade center and the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Africa. He also helped al-Zawahiri, one of the leaders of al-Qaeda, enter the US a with a fake passport in 1995, and tour U.S. mosques, raising money later funneled to al-Qaeda. Ali Mohamed also helped plan the 1998 bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kenya. Ali Mohamed, however, was a U.S. government informant during his entire terrorist career. In fact, he was trained in the United States, at a U.S. military installation and then served as a CIA operative in Afghanistan."

Don´t know anything about his sources, the footnotes are left out at APFN. Does anyone know?
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Premise
What's the basis for R. Joeseph's characterization that the individuals are hijackers?
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Ameridansk Donating Member (996 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ali A. Mohamed is the key to understanding al-Qaeda
Edited on Thu Aug-12-04 02:20 PM by Ameridansk
I've been screamin about this guy for years, but unfortunately my old thread from 2001 about him is no longer accesible here. Doing searches for Ali A Mohamed will help.

The guy IS al-Qaeda. He was everywhere and all the while he was working for us.

An al Qaeda operative at Fort Bragg
http://www.s-t.com/daily/11-01/11-14-01/a01wn017.htm

Ali Mohamed: The Defendant Who Did Not Go to Trial
http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive_Index/Ali_Mohamed.html

A Soldier's Shadowy Trail in U.S. and in the Mideast
http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/alimo.htm

Translation: 'The How-to Book of Terrorism'
http://www.ci-ce-ct.com/article/showquestion.asp?faq=3&fldAuto=164

This is just a small bit about Mohamed. But of course, you have to look at the facts in the articles, and put them together yourself, because the authors are doing everything they can NOT to figure anything out. They probably had jobs they wanted to keep and lives they wanted to keep living.

Ali Mohamed is more important to al-Qaeda than bin Laden ever was, and he is without a doubt, "our" guy.

On edit: just wanted to add some other articles on this guy. I've put it all together here before and I'm not going to waste the time again.

BIN LADEN'S MILITARY MOLE
http://www.american-buddha.com/bin.laden.mole.htm

Al-Qaeda terrorist duped FBI, Army
http://www.diodon349.com/Attack_on_America/Attack_Stories/know_our_enemy_Ali_Mohamed.htm

In Terrorism Case, a Plea Bargain Secretly 2 Years in the Making
http://www.crimelynx.com/terror.html

Bin Laden's man in Silicon Valley
"Mohamed the American' orchestrated terrorist acts while living a quiet suburban life in Santa Clara
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/09/21/MN224103.DTL

Unfortunately, some of the most damning stuff on Mohamed was at a website called apbnews.com which is gone now. With the FOIA they scanned a lot of Mohamed's documents and you could see them for yourself.
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Just for the thrill of it, how about you laying out what you know
All those links are fine for people with the time and inclination to go thru them all.

Sometimes it seems like people substitute providing links instead of logic or a clear statement of what they want others to know.

Be a good guy (or girl), and tell us what you're trying to say here.

Thanks.
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Ameridansk Donating Member (996 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-04 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. For the slow readers and the logically challenged.
Ok, for starters we know that Ali A. Mohamed first came to the U.S. in 1981 (Reagan era) to take Paratrooper and Green Beret training. To quote from this article:

“Did Bin Laden Have His Own Green Beret?”, APBnews.com, May 21, 1999.

“U.S. Army personnel records obtained by APBnews.com show that in 1981, when he was a Captain in the Egyptian Army Mohamed graduated from the U.S. Army’s Special Forces Officers Course at Fort Bragg. Earlier that same year, he also completed airborne paratrooper training at the U.S. Army’s Infantry School at Fort Benning, Ga.”

While I can no longer find an active link for this article, this training is mentioned in several other articles I have posted links to for example:

<SNIP>

Sometime in the early 1980s . . . the Egyptian army sent Mohamed to Fort Bragg for special forces training -- common for officers from countries the United States regards as friendly. Training beside U.S. Green Berets, he learned how to command elite soldiers on difficult missions such as special reconnaissance, unconventional warfare and counterinsurgency operations. After four months, he received a diploma with a green beret on it.

<SNIP>

http://www.diodon349.com/Attack_on_America/Attack_Stories/know_our_enemy_Ali_Mohamed.htm

After returning to Egypt and being discharged from the Egyptian Army, we find out he decides he wants to work for the CIA.

<SNIP>
In mid-1984, a former Egyptian Army officer with an engaging manner and a gift for languages approached the C.I.A. in Egypt with what seemed an intriguing offer: He volunteered to be a spy.

The agency tried him out, but the Egyptian flunked. He had made contact in Germany with a branch of Hezbollah, the Middle Eastern terrorist group, and told its members that he was working with the CIA, a betrayal the agency quickly discovered.

Soon after, C.I.A. officials branded him untrustworthy and cut off further dealings with him, suspecting that he wanted to help the terrorists spy on Americans, United States officials said.

The agency discovered the next year that the former officer, Ali A. Mohamed, was trying to enter the United States, and officials put his name on a State Department "watch list" intended to prevent terrorists and other security threats from getting visas, an American official said.

When Mohamed evaded this precaution and persuaded an American Embassy official to give him a visa, the C.I.A. issued a second warning to other federal agencies that a suspect person might be traveling to the United States.

The warnings were not heeded. Mohamed emigrated to the United States and in the next decade cultivated a range of useful relationships with the American government.

He enlisted in the army and served with one of its most elite units. Then, in the early 1990's, he became an informant for the F.B.I.

<SNIP>

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/alimo.htm

This is one of the article in which we need to separate fact from conjecture. We know he volunteered to work for the CIA, he later served in the US Army as a sergeant (a demotion of sorts since he was previously a Major in the Egyptian army and already had Green Beret training), and he became a US citizen.

Did the CIA really turn him down? If they had accepted him, they would have put him on a “Watch List” as well. I think it’s safe to say a guy with his skills would be wanted as a “terrorist”. All the other facts point to him being on the US intelligence network’s good side.

For example:

<SNIP>

This Egyptian terrorist was honorably discharged in 1989 with commendations for "patriotism, valor, fidelity and professional excellence." He later became an American citizen.

<SNIP>

http://www.american-buddha.com/bin.laden.mole.htm

Now, to we are at the supposed time of birth of al-Qaeda, which is said to have begun around the time the Soviet Union pulled out of Afghanistan.

<SNIP>

Al-Qaeda, meaning "the base", was created in 1989 as Soviet forces withdrew from Afghanistan and Osama Bin Laden and his colleagues began looking for new jihads.

<SNIP>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_asia/1670089.stm

As we can see from above, Mohamed was also finished with the US Army in 1989. But he already had a jump on things because he had probably met bin Laden in 1988 :

<SNIP>

In 1988, while still on active duty, Mohamed took leave to go to Afghanistan and fight the Russians. Lt. Col. Anderson told the Chronicle this was "contrary to all Army regulations." He said he wrote reports to get Mohamed investigated, court-martialed and deported, but no action was taken.

<SNIP>

http://www.american-buddha.com/bin.laden.mole.htm

Sounds like he has friends in high places. Why would the Army let him go? What if he was captured or killed? International incident for sure.

We don’t know much about what he did immediately after his honorable discharge, but up to, and after it we have this:

<SNIP>

Near the end of his tour at Bragg, Mohamed apparently got busier in his work with terrorist groups. Documents from court cases show that he traveled on weekends to New Jersey, where he trained other Islamic fundamentalists in surveillance, weapons and explosives.

<SNIP>

Mohamed spent the next five years in the Army Reserves. For nine years after he left active duty, until his arrest in 1998, Mohamed shuttled between California, Afghanistan, Kenya, Somalia and at least a dozen other countries, the court records show.

<SNIP>

http://www.diodon349.com/Attack_on_America/Attack_Stories/know_our_enemy_Ali_Mohamed.htm

And this:

<SNIP>

In 1989, officers at Fort Bragg cast Mohamed as the star of a series of training videotapes intended to give soldiers a taste of how Islamic radicals view the world.

On one tape, he says of Israel, "From the Islamic perspective, nobody can recognize Israel has the right to live, because Israel stole an Islamic territory."

"We do not accept no peace," he adds. "No international conference. Nothing. No compromise."

That same year, Mohamed apparently began working more closely with Islamic extremists in the United States.

He disappeared from Fort Bragg on weekends, traveled to the New York area and offered military training to several militants associated with a refugee center in Brooklyn.

He often stayed with El Sayyid A. Nosair, the Egyptian immigrant convicted of killing Rabbi Meir Kahane, the founder of the Jewish Defense League, in 1990.

Prosecutors now assert that the refugee center was the principal base in the United States for bin Laden's group, Al Qaeda.

Mohamed met the local Muslims at an apartment in Jersey City, and taught them survival techniques, map reading and how to recognize tanks and other Soviet weapons, according to testimony by one of his students at Nosair's 1995 federal trial.

Mohamed left the army in November 1989, obtained his U.S. citizenship, and spent the next few years shuttling between New York, California, Afghanistan and the Middle East.

It is not known when he first met bin Laden. According to American officials, however, at some point in 1991 the Saudi exile asked him to help with a crucial task: moving his base of operations from Afghanistan to the Sudan.

American officials said this was a complex operation, involving the transfer through several countries of bin Laden and at least two dozen associates.

At the same time, Mohamed frequented mosques in the United States, and American officials now suspect that he was recruiting operatives for bin Laden.

<SNIP>

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/alimo.htm

That’s is a start for you. I’ve done this all before, and it was generally ignored, and now, the thread is not retrievable. I’ll probably add more since I haven’t mentioned how Mohamed is reported to have been far more intimately involved in all of al-Qaeda’s actions in the 1990’s than even bin Laden himself.

Actually, I've got to add things surrounding his trial for the Embassy bombings, where he pleaded guilty and never testified.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-04 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. APFN is not a valid news source
It is at best a very opinionated and biased blog. Please void its use in the future.

Lithos
FA/NS/911 Moderator
Democratic Underground
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