OCT= War

[BeFree]

The problem is the continued belief in the OCT as the truth. With the OCT standing no alternatives will ever get a fair hearing in the press or from the government. So, there are but two choices: The OCT or No OCT.

That's where we are now. As long as 'No OCT' is ignored and shunted to the dungeons, then war is forevermore.

As long as a middle ground is officially excluded, and the reason to keep it excluded is to continue the wars, then we'll get what we've got: the OCT and more war.

So, from my viewpoint attacking the OCT in every way possible is the only way to breakout. It can never be said that the OCT is to be taken as truth, because of where it comes from and because it is the biggest obstacle to the truth. It must totally fall before we can get around to a fair and reasonable investigation. People must examine the OCT and come away saying: "No F'n way. Give me something else. "

Then, and only then does peace have a chance.

[SDuderstadt]

1. More of your false dilemma bullshit, BeFree...

The "OCT" is your strawman rhetorical device so you can avoid having to actually debate since you can just retreat to "you believe the OCT" or other nonsense.

[Realityhack]

15. I wonder which part of false dilemma BeFree is incapable of understanding. n/t

[achtung_circus]

2. Your corner calls

[Ohio Joe]

3. Does that mean your on board with "no planes" and "mini nukes"?

I mean, if you have to attack the OTC in every way possible... is that where your going? Is that what you think will get to some truth?

Just for curiosities sake, how do you make a connection between finding your truth about 9/11 and eternal war? Also, how would that truth coming to light bring about world peace?

Edit to add:

Do you also believe discussion on DU of 9/11 would be better in GD rather then in a focused forum, as we have?

[Marksbrother]

4. Might be more rewarding for some folks

"Do you also believe discussion on DU of 9/11 would be better in GD rather then in a focused forum, as we have?"

[hack89]

5. Wouldn't rational attacks on the OCT be more effective? nt

[Marksbrother]

6. Define "OCT"

[achtung_circus]

8. Define "OCT"

Ask BeFree, or offer your definition. It is a term coined by the free-fall, "Bushco", no planes, death ray, CD crowd. A definition has been requested, but I haven't seen one proffered.

Can you help?

[Marksbrother]

10. Yes

It refers to the Fake 9/11 Conspiracy that was sold to the public by BUSHCO and the MSM.

[achtung_circus]

11. Could you be more specific?

All of "it"?

Parts of "it"?

If so, which part?

On Edit: spelling fart

[Marksbrother]

12. Yes.

The entire thing, in all of its goofy glory.

[achtung_circus]

13. That's clear...

what do you replace this "OCT" with?

[Marksbrother]

14. The truth.

The actual conspiracy.

[achtung_circus]

16. Are you familiar with the concept of plastic words?? nt

[anigbrowl]

17. So no planes, then? OK, I suppose it could theoretically have been winged submarines.

See where hyperbole gets you? 'The entire thing' is meaningless.

[BeFree]

7. Dobson: ... Bush Was ‘The Instrument In God’s Hand’ That Kept Us Safe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5831465&mesg_id=5831465

Posted by laststeamtrain in General Discussion
Dobson And Disgraced WH Staffer Pay Bush Tribute: He Was ‘The Instrument In God’s Hand’ That Kept Us Safe

This week, James Dobson has been using his Focus on the Family Daily Broadcast to air his 1 1/2-hour interview with Tim Goeglein, a former special assistant to President Bush. The interview — billed as an “Insider’s View of the Bush Presidency” — has actually been a 1 1/2-hour love fest to the former president. Some highlights of Goeglien’s thoughts:

– “George W. Bush kept us safe. Providence kept us safe. But George Bush was the instrument in God’s hand as the leader of the free world.”

– “Of course, this was the great blessing of our first president, George Washington — the original George W. … The greatest trait of Washington was to see things as they were and not as he wanted to see them. That was George W. Bush’s gift when it came to this war. He immediately upon being told of the attacks knew that this was war and that we were being attacked existentially by radical Islam.”

– “I am actually very confident and hopeful, that in the years ahead with the benefit of time and space, that historians will look back at those remarkable and incredibly eventful eight years and say, ‘You know, he made the right decisions about the biggest things during those eight years.’“

[LARED]

9. What a weird post

What does Dobson's opinions have to do with OCT = war?

Also in case your not paying attention, Dobson believes all Presidents are Instruments In God’s Hand.

[BeFree]

18. No way - this war

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5835419

ccharles000 Fri Jun-12-09 04:18 PM
Original message
U.S.: "There's No Way I'm Going to Deploy to Afghanistan"

MARFA, Texas, May 26 (IPS) - "It’s a matter of what I’m willing to live with," Specialist Victor Agosto of the U.S. Army, who is refusing orders to deploy to Afghanistan, explained to IPS. "I’m not willing to participate in this occupation, knowing it is completely wrong."

Agosto, who returned from a 13-month deployment to Iraq in November 2007, is based at Fort Hood in Killeen, Texas.

While in Iraq, Agosto never left his base, located in northern Iraq.

"I never had any traumatic experiences, never fired my weapon," Agosto told IPS in a phone interview. "I mostly worked in information technology, working on computers and keeping the network functioning well. But it was in Iraq that I turned against the occupations. Through my reading, and watching what was going on, I started to feel very guilty."

Agosto added, "What I did there, I know I contributed to death and human suffering. It’s hard to quantify how much I caused, but I know I contributed to it."

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=46978

[BeFree]

19. Kucinich speaks out

http://www.clevelandleader.com/comment/reply/10251


Dennis Kucinich Once Again Speaks Out Against Iraq War
Submitted by Eugmc on June 10, 2009 - 1:51pm.
Cleveland/Cuyahoga County


Cleveland Congressman Dennis Kucinich today made the following statement against the war supplemental on the House floor:
“Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, had no intention or capability of attacking United States, had nothing to do with Al-Qaida’s role in 9/11, and each and every statement made by the previous administration in support of going to war turned out to be false.

“Yet here we are. A new administration and the same old war, with an expansion of the war in Afghanistan. We cannot afford these wars. We cannot afford these wars spiritually. They are wars of aggression and they are based on lies. We cannot afford these wars financially. They add trillions to our national debt and destroy our domestic agenda. We cannot afford the human cost of these wars, the loss of lives of our beloved troops and the deaths of innocent civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. So, why do we do this? Why do we keep funding wars when they are so obviously against truth and justice and when they undermine our military? These are matters of heart and conscience, which must be explored. Our ability to bring an end to these wars will be the real test of our power.

[wildbilln864]

22. He is one of the greatest statesmen in my lifetime!

Thanks. :hi:

[BeFree]

20. Afghan villagers slain as they took cover

By John Swain

Tears streaming down her face, the Afghan woman sat in a corner of a room with no roof and broken windows, mourning 19 of her closest and dearest relatives. “They were parts of my heart,” she said.

Six weeks after American warplanes bombed her village in Farah province, on Afghanistan’s remote western border, mistakenly killing dozens of innocent women and children, the terror of the moment when the bombs fell and the ground erupted, turning one mud-walled house after another into rubble, still lives in her mind.

“I lost them all at a glance. Why am I still alive?” the 62-year-old woman asked.

The dead men, women and children, many of them her relatives, now lie in graves. The survivors still wonder why their families were wiped out by American airmen with whom they had no quarrel.

SNIP

Last year the Americans killed 90 civilians in a bombing raid on Azizabad. An investigation by Dispatches, to be broadcast on Channel 4 tomorrow, will show that the Americans carried out the raid on the basis of faulty intelligence provided by an Afghan to settle a score with a rival. He is now on death row. But the American military has still not admitted the truth.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6493665.ece

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6493665.ece

[Bolo Boffin]

21. But War != OCT n/t

[vincent_vega_lives]

23. Denial is not truth

The day truthers realize they are just updated versions of the Apollo Moon landing hoax theorists the sooner they can move on with there lives.

1. Hoaxers used their "expert' photo analysis to provide evidence for conspiracy.

2. Hoaxers had a predisposition for mistrust of the US Government.

3. Hoaxers believed their scientific incredulity constituted legitimate doubt.

[BeFree]

24. Well

The bags are packed and it is time. Off on vacation for awhile. As long as I can stand it.

Just want to say thanks to those here who are severely questioning the OCT and looking forward to reading what yall say whenever I can get online again.

Lets go get those Bush bastards!!

[number6]

25. Damn Right

OCT=War

and Police State

the Official Conspiracy Theory is George W Bushes narrative of 911

911 truth stops 911 wars !!!