WHAT??? former Bush team member says 9/11 MIHOP???

[Fleshdancer]

ON EDIT: UPI STORY. UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050613-102755-6408r.htm

A former Bush team member during his first administration is now voicing serious doubts about the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9-11. Former chief economist for the Department of Labor during President George W. Bush's first term Morgan Reynolds comments that the official story about the collapse of the WTC is "bogus" and that it is more likely that a controlled demolition destroyed the Twin Towers and adjacent Building No. 7. Reynolds, who also served as director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis in Dallas and is now professor emeritus at Texas A&M University said, "If demolition destroyed three steel skyscrapers at the World Trade Center on 9/11, then the case for an 'inside job' and a government attack on America would be compelling."

[Stephanie]

1. Wash Times = Disinfo

[Fleshdancer]

11. but they got it from UPI

is UPI a discredited news source??

[11cents]

17. UPI is also owned by the Moonies.

They bought it a few years ago.

[NYCGirl]

19. They bought it in 2000.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/47/47948.html

[Fleshdancer]

21. I didn't know that. jeez, they're buying up all of it, aren't they? n/t

[Stephanie]

28. That's why Helen Thomas quit UPI

[SmokingJacket]

18. True, but Google the guy.

He's a big time MIHOPer and apparently did work for the Bush administration.

Interesting, in any case.

on edit:

here's a link to some of his essays, not on the WashTimes site:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds-arch.html
(I believe Lew Rockwell is a libertarian... correct me if I'm wrong.)

[Junkdrawer]

50. Damn. The next attack must be getting close...

Why a disinfo program to discredit the outstanding 9/11 questions now when questions aren't currently on the radar?

[Frederik]

58. As you say, they're not on the radar

which is why I don't think this is disinfo.

There's another possibility however, for why they're printing this. Moon is known to have a penchant for blackmail.

[Frederik]

57. It's always a possibility

But I also think we are a little to quick to yell "disinfo" sometimes. His arguments are pretty much the same as those put forward by others who think the towers were demolished, so if it's disinfo then the towers weren't really demolished.

[JackRiddler]

61. This is a fairly incongruous comment to the story.

Well, no shit, Stephanie, the Wash Times is a daily disinfo rag.

Are you therefore saying that the Wash Times has fabricated the story of Morgan Reynolds?

Are you saying that Morgan Reynolds is not a former Bush regime member?

Are you saying that he lacks right-wing establishment credentials?

Are you saying he does not have a long list of publications in economic journals, as well as columns published as an editorialist in the NY Times and other mainstream organs, all achieved presumably by authority of his status as an insider and regime member?

Are you saying that this same Morgan Reynolds has not gone on record in his own words, claiming that the 9/11 Commission Report is a bedtime story, that the Towers were likely demolished, and that 9/11 was therefore an inside job?! (*)

Are you saying that the Washingtom Times made all that up?

Or are you saying that publication by the Times makes somehow all this irrelevant?

Let me see if I've understood the Catch-22 logic of the Official Conspiracy Believers.

People who say 9/11 was an inside job are lefty or righty fringe lunatics, lacking credentials and any kind of inside line.

But when actual insiders from the right-wing regime step forward and say 9/11 was an inside job, they are not to be taken seriously because they're members of the establishment.

Right.

So if Cheney confesses to orchestrating 9/11 and the Washington Times prints it, you'll tell us this doesn't matter because Cheney is a known liar, right?

(*) See a list of Reynolds articles at http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds-arch.html and especially the following two...
Commission: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/reynolds6.html
Towers: http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html

[Donailin]

66. Goddamn

just goddamn.

[Dover]

2. WHAT??? The Washington Times???

[slaveplanet]

49. watch for a retraction on this

once Rev Moon gets his payoff from Bushco...

typical WT modus operandi. Dangle some truth till the criminals capitulate and cough up some funds to keep the paper running...

[atommom]

3. I hope he doesn't go on any small planes soon.

WT isn't a very reliable source, but if he's really speaking out he needs to be careful.

[lies and propaganda]

4. wow

holy shit. I was debating LIHOP and MIHOP last night, and I personally subscribe to LIHOP. This is a pretty wild idea.

[shraby]

10. That's a UPI release if it makes any difference.

[NYCGirl]

20. UPI is also owned by Rev. Moon...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/47/47948.html

[SheepyMcSheepster]

5. whoa........eom.

[SteppingRazor]

6. It's in the Wash. Times...

I don't doubt the guy said this. But they're probably printing it to make it sound ridiculous.

[Fleshdancer]

15. It's a UPI story n/t

[geek tragedy]

27. Same shit, different pile. Both owned by Moon. eom

[faithnotgreed]

7. besides the obvious i couldnt help but notice "Dallas"

the whole thing is ..... an ongoing kick in our collective gut

when is this from? i dont want to hit the link to that paper

[AllyCat]

8. Not just Moonie Press...see this from a couple days ago:

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/27302.htm

Indy press. Anyone know anything about them?

[doublethink]

30. Your article link covers more detail. :)

Didn't script out the more incriminating questions like the Washington Post did. Thanks. :)

[Arugula Latte]

9. I wonder if this is Rove's work

Plant a wildly inaccurate story that will be discredited to distract from the real story? I'm just speculating ... that would be one explanation for why the Times, a Bush mouthpiece fishwrap, would run this.

[tallahasseedem]

14. Why not?

It certainly worked for memogate regarding Dan Rather.

[ScamUSA.Com]

70. I dont think the dan rather story was fake

nor do I think this one is... I think its right fruggin on.

For people willing to dismiss the theory as bogus, can you please explain WTC7?

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. I was thinking the same thing.

Like maybe they've come up with detailed engineering assessments that prove the two towers were, indeed, brought down by the planes, and those assessments will be examined by all the experts, putting the whole MIHOP to rest.

But ignoring the fact that no plane crashed into #7, the fires there were relatively minor - in fact, lighter than in #5 and #6, which did not collapse.

Never mind that. We've proved the story was false, so every part of the story is false.

Construction methods on #1 & #2 were completely new, and completely unlike that of #5, #6, and #7. And no building of #7's type has EVER collapsed from fire.

[bpilgrim]

12. WTC7 collapse --------------- --------------------- VIDEO

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc7.swf

peace

[QuettaKid]

55. Look at that video: look VERY,VERy,VERY closely at the

right hand side of the building....look towards the upper right hand corner. See anything? Look very closely and you can see a small series of explosions, starting from the bottom up, BEFORE the collapse. You can also see a series of them in pairs on the side of the building facing the camera. squibs. I just showed that video to a co-worker passing by my cube. I asked him what he thought it was...." oh, looks like a building falling down." I asked him if he knew which one it was.....I told him it was wtc7, across the street from the twins, came down later that day, around 5. He had never heard of it. I would wager 80% of this country either hasn't heard of it or doesn't remember it. MIHOP in a big way.

[tallahasseedem]

13. Me thinks...

he is going to encounter a very bad man (or people) on his next evening stroll. Just look what happened to that weapons inspector in London.

[ElectroPrincess]

48. I would also recommend that he avoid small plane trips /eom

[LightningFlash]

16. Looks like the fallout is just hitting....

More "deep throughts" to come? Stay away from small planes, and let the case of the real events that happened on 9/11 run free!!!

:wow:

[ProfessorGAC]

22. An Attempt To Marginalize

That's all it is. They wouldn't print it if they thought they couldn't just make the guy look like a loon. He may be, he might not be, but the Times isn't publishing this unless they have a plan to discredit.
The Professor

[kliljedahl]

46. Exactly

He's a "former chief economist", a real authority on building demolition.
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Donailin]

68. No, a real authority on Crime.

Morgan Reynolds, Ph.D. , is professor emeritus at Texas A&M University and former director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis headquartered in Dallas, TX. He served as chief economist for the US Department of Labor during 2001–2, George W. Bush's first term.

Copyright © 2005 LewRockwell.com

[RBHam]

23. Better get on board the truth train...

You don't want to be left holding Bush's bag do you?

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Yep

Maybe he's speaking out because of everything going on now. :shrug: Dzkia told me that his story came out three or four days ago.

[phaseolus]

24. No. No. Uh-uh. No fucking way.

This is one of those conspiracy theories that, if it were true, would have to have too many people involved to pull it off, and you can't get that many people to keep a secret that big -- especially a situation where even the most amoral Repug greedhead might develop a conscience.

I think Reynolds is a nut. This is bogus. And remember, he is only speculating here -- it's not like he has any facts to back up his theory.

[bpilgrim]

31. lots of DU'ers KNOW

:evilgrin:

peace

[nolabels]

40. Plato and chasing the shadows

This :P is for my favorite______________

[RBHam]

34. There are so many holes in the "official story"

You can fly four passenger jets through them.

Seriously. There HAVE been leaks, mistakes, blatant coverups, redactions, fall back stories and officials constantly caught in lies.

Instead Americans accept trials by press conference, obviously planted evidence and the leadership of a defence Secretary who has come right out and told the press they will be lied to in this endless War Of Terror...

Christ, man, how MANY times does another revelation have to kick you in the ass!

http://reopen911.org/

[phaseolus]

38. Fine, I'll grant that...

...things warrant more investigation, like Allycat says below... but "...more likely that it's a result of controlled demolition"???

That's just fucking crazy. Given that there's holes in the official story it does NOT logically follow that some crackpot theory like that one is likely to be true. You would have to believe that dozens if not hundreds of people in the loop would ALL have to be so craven and immoral that they would willingly sacrifice a few thousand innnocent lives in a stage-managed terrorist attack for the sake of winning a popularity poll & an election down the road.

And yeah, yeah -- Iraq or any other number of dumb wars that have sent Americans and others to their deaths. I know that. You don't need to remind me. But the psychological rationale behind war is TOTALLY different than the rationale behind any "hey, let's blow up the WTC" scheme.

[RBHam]

39. Research, my friend.

NEVER BEFORE has one airplane crashing into a building EVER completely demolished a building, let alone bring it down in its footprints...

If you have trouble wondering how the explosives could have been planted, let me remind you that MARVIN BUSH was put in charge of WTC Security six months before 9-11.

It's a crime family affair.

[Donailin]

69. Not only that, but just one day before, in NY, FEMA had just started

a war game excercise; "Tripod II"

"While some experts claim that airliner impact severely weakened the entire structural system, evidence is lacking. The perimeters of floors 94–98 did not appear severely weakened, much less the entire structural system. The criminal code requires that crime scene evidence be saved for forensic analysis but FEMA had it destroyed before anyone could seriously investigate it. FEMA was in position to take command because it had arrived the day before the attacks at New York’s Pier 29 to conduct a war game exercise, "Tripod II," quite a coincidence. The authorities apparently considered the rubble quite valuable: New York City officials had every debris truck tracked on GPS and had one truck driver who took an unauthorized 1 ½ hour lunch fired."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html

[shanti]

42. they ARE craven and immoral

believe that.

[Vincardog]

54. 130,000 kept the Manhattan Project Secret. It is true Bu$h MIHOP

Sorry if the truth hurts.

[Frederik]

62. I'm agnostic as to whether this is true or not

but I don't think it's impossible at all that hundreds of people are partly in the loop and keep quiet. That's usually the main objection against "conspiracy theories", but I don't think it's a very valid one. It's a matter of finding the right people, which is usually criminals who are guaranteed impunity in their criminal activity of choice if they help some people in alphabet agency XXX do some work. Of course, should they talk they would end up having an ugly accident. How many of those who smuggled cocaine for the CIA in the 80s have come forward? Exactly none, that I'm aware of.

As for the motivation behind it, it would obviously be to fundamentally change the dynamics of both internal and external politics in the United States, which it certainly did for at lest a couple of years, enough time for the US military to change the geoplitical map of the Middle East and Central Asia.

The joint chiefs of staff planned to stage terrorist events in the US and use it as a pretext to invade Cuba, in 1962. One of the suggestions was to blow up a US Navy ship with sailors on board. The plan even involved fake plane hijackings, publishing fake lists of casualties to cause outrage and so on. It was called "Operation Northwoods". I think it's a big mistake we commonly make to assume people in high places in government and the military necessarily think like us.

[AllyCat]

35. I think Reynolds' point is that it warrants more investigation.

He does not feel the Administration's explanation matches what happened.

[geek tragedy]

25. Rightwingers were the original "black helicopter"/NWO conspiracy

theorists. Many of the 911 conspiracy pushers (like Tbrnews, thetruthseeker.co.uk, American Free Press) are actually members of the fascist right.

[Frederik]

63. That's true

about the NWO/Illuminati conspiracy theories, but it has little relation to what Matthew Reynolds is saying.

[JDPriestly]

29. I have always though MIHOP

was the craziest of the crazy ideas, although I have softened a bit on the LIHOP theory. But, after reading the DSMs, I'm questioning my skepticism. If Bush thought it was perfectly legal to invade Iraq without showing an imminent threat or getting UN authorization, what else does he think is legal?

Bush is an argument for letting everyone into law school. He really needed a legal education. He does not seem to understand the concept of legal/illegal, right/wrong. This is just amazing to me. I bet if there was a way to cheat at baseball as a kid, he would have done it.

I confess. I am obsessive compulsive about following rules. I feel just horrible -- I get a sinking feeling -- pangs of guilt overtake me -- if I overlook a stop sign, turn left against an arrow or look down at my speedometer and see I'm going to fast on an empty highway. I can't even jaywalk or cross empty streets against the light without feeling absolutely horrible -- it really isn't worth it for me. I don't think everyone has to be as neurotic as I am. But, a person like Bush, who seems to have no respect for rules and reason at all, is just a mystery to me. I simply can't understand how his mind works. That is why I did not go into criminal law. I just can't understand at all how the criminal mind works, but I think maybe that is what we are dealing with here.

Does he thinks the rules just don't apply to him? Does he not understand the logic and reason behind the rules? Or does he derive some kind of strange pleasure from breaking the rules? I really don't get it.

I think that if he feels no remorse at the sight of the pictures of Iraqi parents holding their dead children in their arms, and he apparently does not, he is capable of any horrible act. Human life seems to have no value to him if it is interfering with his ambition.

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. "Legal" is immaterial to someone who is "right".

The whole PNAC crowd are so sure of the rightness of their mission that legality plays only a minor part in it -- it is only a consideration in respect to how they play it out.

Very Strausian - or Machivallian, as you will.

They are amoral sociopaths in power. There's nothing more dangerous than that.

[tavalon]

72. A legal education won't help a sociopath

figure out right from wrong. That sort of person doesn't really care about such distinctions. George Bush is a sociopath.

[EVDebs]

32. Will he testify for William Rodriguez' RICO suit vs. Bush ?????

http://www.911forthetruth.com/pages/Press%20ReleaseRod.htm

[longship]

37. MIHOP discredits LIHOP

By giving comfort to MIHOP, it makes it easier to discredit LIHOP by portraying all HOPs as lunatic fringe. This seems so much like a typical Rove "paint with a wide brush" tactic.

But there is clear evidence for LIHOP. The Aug memo, Richard Clarke, etc. Circumstantial, but substantive. Dems don't need to talk about MIHOP because there is an arguably clear case for LIHOP. Especially if MIHOP undermines the LIHOP case.

Shoot too high and you get smacked down making our whole job more difficult.

[rinsd]

43. Yup....

...and an economist discussing the likeyhoods involved in structural engineering isn't exactly winning formula.

[redqueen]

41. Heard some guy on the radio talking about the buildings "swelling up"

before they exploded... don't remember his name... wasn't listening clsoely. Kept repeating that they stopped showing video of the collapses because you could see the buildings swell before collapsing, which he said indicated they were brought down by controlled demolition.

Wonder if this is the same guy.

[Zynx]

44. Moonie paper and irrelevent "expert"

An economics for the Labor Department doesn't know anything about demolitions and would not need to know anything about this as part of a conspiracy.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slaveplanet]

52. AJ is personna non gratta

in Freepville...they can't afford to stir up the brownshirts

[ElectroPrincess]

47. Damn!

[progressoid]

51. I want to UN-nominate this thread...

The moonies publish a story about an economist's views of structural engineering and building demolition and you see this a credible???

[ElectroPrincess]

53. You make a good point ...

Face it folks, the * Administration is so far above the law, no one DARE make any serious moves to impeach them.

Because of all the Republican power, Rove can take his time at publishing DIS-information through his trusted publications and networks (think of Washington Times and FOX Cable News Outlets).

OUR history is being *reformed* before our eyes. Of course, the world KNOWS the truth, but will they be any match for Our Empire? Guess we'll have to tune in next week because the average American has NO POWER over the corporate media - we are truly helpless. Our only hope is "the happenings" in the UK to lead to justice.

Otherwise, set back and cope for "We're Screwed."

[gordianot]

56. That Moonie owned News would print this is intersting in itself.

Even if it is disinformation at some level it could show that either they are allowing themselves to be used for administration (Rovian) disinformation or it might signal a slight rift with the current administration.

No chance of ever proving this WTC scrap was sent to China.

[dalloway]

60. AGREE! We need a little more SKEPTICISM

over here.

[tinrobot]

59. Explosives AND four successfully hijacked airplanes?

Explosives alone would have easily done in the buildings, why complicate matters by adding in the uncertainty of hijacking four planes?

-- Planting explosives in a public building is difficult.

-- Successfully hijacking an airplane is also difficult, let alone four.

-- Piloting a hijacked airplane to hit a building is even more difficult.

-- Hitting the buildings with the airplanes at or near the point where the explosives were placed is incredibly difficult.

Multiply all the difficulties together and it gets awfully close to impossible for a theory involving explosives to fit the facts. I think the simplest explaination applies here - we all saw the planes hit the building. Once they hit, the collapse of the towers was inevitable.

If there is a conspiracy - it is in how those airplanes were hijacked and got to the point where they hit the buildings.

[stickdog]

78. Weird argument you have there. How would you blame it on Muslim

terra'ists without the planes?

[Nothing Without Hope]

64. Published in the Moonie Times - could this be part of move to kick

the Bush cartel out of the ruling GOP?

Do the Moonies have any known ties with John McCain, who appears to be being groomed for the 2008 presidential race?

[demodewd]

73. my two cents

Associating Bushco with at least LIHOP I believe would spell doom for the Republican Party.

[Nothing Without Hope]

74. Moon has this timeline to be savior of the world. Perhaps this could

be part of that plan, bringing down the ruling party in the US, preferably in a way that also weakens the opposition party. Power vacuum.

Because you're right, I can't see the GOP getting past being exposed as LIHOP, let alone MIHOP (as the controlled demolition would imply). And I wasn't able to find any past connections between McCain and Moon at the definitive archive of all things Moon:
http://www.iapprovethismessiah.com

[Nothing Without Hope]

65. I see that it is now possible to vote for posts in the 9/11 forum.

Thanks, admins! This is a very important change - before, there was NO way that anything about 9/11 EVER could appear on the main pages. All info was banished into the forum and was never seen outside it.

I hope they also have modified the rule by which all 9/11-related threads were moved here. Some need to be seen by a more general audience.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

75. I just tried to vote for this thread and received this message

Error: You can't recommend threads from this forum

[Nothing Without Hope]

76. Hmmmm...well, let's give this some time for the bugs in the new software

to be worked out. If after all the dsut settles it remains impossible to vote for 9/11 threads, we need to write to Skinner about it. (I already did, a couple of weeks back. No response, so I don't know the reasons for the ban.)

[Angry Girl]

67. http://www.reopen911.org READ and THINK FOR YOURSELF! n/t

[Boxerfan]

71. This has got to get some traction...

So I did a LTTE.... It's headed to the Oregonian so don't snicker,it does have an itty-bitty teensie weensie chance of getting printed-Right?

"
I know a sure way to find & prosecute those responsible for 9/11.
Only problem is they have to be impeached from office 1st!

Seems a former White House aide Morgan Reynolds (who also served as a Director for the Criminal Justice center in Dallas) has serious doubts about the events surrounding 9/11. He feels the WTC collapses were all demolitions. This is not a new theory & there are many reasons to believe this is what really occurred.

The official 9/11 report was a farce & the second report outlining the intelligence failures(that was promised to be released after the election,they were just too busy!) has never materialized for some reason. Yet daily we hear new stories of how intelligence was blocked allowing the attacks to occur.

A quick analysis of the facts also raises serious doubts. A High level Republican plan, The Project for a New American Century (P.N.A.C.) called for " a new Pearl Harbor type event" to gather public support for a war in the middle east(in search of oil reserves).

Then there are the thousands of errors committed by intelligence before 9/11 & the majority parties complete obfuscation of the 9/11 inquiries...Seems almost as if they wanted it to happen & then wanted it to go away doesn't it?

Then there's the big smoking gun. World Trade Center complex building 7. That building suffered only minor debris impact & some small fires. Yet the owner of the building called for it to be "pulled" & then it dropped in a free-fall into it's footprint. It is important to note that no steel frame skyscraper building has ever collapsed due to fire or airliner impacts(it has happened before) & that the temperatures generated by burning jet fuel is nowhere near sufficient to even minutely weaken the steel beams.And this building suffered neither impact or jet fuel fires.

To be sure Bin Laden had his hand in it. But the fact he was a CIA operative & his family given preferential treatment by being allowed to fly out of the country just after 9/11 before commercial traffic had been resumed has been verified but never addressed. If he wasn't aided by the planners of the P.N.A.C. it is surely one of the biggest strings of errors & coincidences in history"

Worth a try...

[Nothing Without Hope]

77. For the record, here are links to VIDEO AND AUDIO RECORDINGS of Griffiin's

historic Madison lecture on the Bush Admin's complicity in the 9/11 attacks. It is positively not to be missed. It is about 1 hr 20 min long. There is also a 60 min radio interview (Pacifica Radio) with him on his new book. DVD or VHS of the Madison lecture are available from CSPAN. The full text of his first book is available online. All this info is in this thread and its associated links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x39690

Don't miss the Madision lecture, and spread the word if you can. It cannot be dismissed by anyone who has seen/heard it.