What's your opinion about this photo from Portland Airport?

[Andre II]

IS this Atta in the blue shirt at Portland Airport on 911:






What's your take?

[mirandapriestly]

1. I enlarged it

and it looks like the faces have been messed with, there are blotches missing. The eyes are just a black line straight across and the lower part of the face is missing upon enlargement. Sorry I don't have the ability to reproduce that here. The ears are different and the hairline is subtly different. He also doesn't usually wear that style of shirt, fwiw.

[JackRiddler]

2. Frame enlargement

Does not raise the resolution. Try this with any low-resolution image. Enlarge it and see the detail go lost. There will be blotches missing.

I happen to know something very suspicious about this picture, but I'm working on a research piece about it.

[KJF]

4. Off-topic

I think you would be the best person to ask.

Do you know anything about aliens' passports in Germany? I mean German passports issued to aliens (specifically Lebanese, Egyptians and Emiratis). Some countries (for example the UK) have them, does Germany?

[JackRiddler]

7. Sorry I can't say directly...

Germany issues residence permits that are affixed to a page of your real passport. At least, that is the case with Americans and other Westerners, Japanese, Israelis... but perhaps not all foreign residents. There is a definite hierarchy of foreigners based on your country of origin, with rich countries at the top. In fact, in Berlin the rich countries even have a separate Auslaenderamt (Foreigner Agency) from the poor countries. So it could be that these guys had special passports, but most likely just the residence permit in their country passports.

Sorry about non-definitive. Can try to check later when I speak with Germany next.

[mirandapriestly]

8. I didn't think it raised the resolution

but at least I'd be able to see it. I can't wait to read what you know about this picture!

[KJF]

3. Yes, I think it is

And I think it's Al Omari too. However, the picture is not good enough to determine that definitively. The two guys in the picture certainly look like Atta and Alomari, but there's no way a 100% positive ID can be made based on these stills.

[Woody Box]

5. My take

I think these guys are identical to those who were recorded while pulling cash the evening before (with "Al-Omari" joking).

If however, the guy in the blue sheet is identical to the Atta guy on the official FBI picture...I don't know...

[medienanalyse]

6. A lot of opinions

1. Two times shown.

2. both times extremely short before take-off. So Atta the ingenious planner risked to miss the date for suicide nearly.

3. persons not identificavle.

4. no other persons around who could be asked "can you remember these guys"!?

5. No witnesses except the camera is remarkable. At this time in the morning it should be more people around.

6. Where is the personell ? I expect officials who control and maybe look into the handbaggage.

7. It seems to be a bright day in the MORNING - we might have a look for the shadows.

8. Why did they publish these photos and not those from the identification point ? This place is obviously the baggage control point.

9. I obtain a sequence of 4 photos. Why not more, why not a film ?

10. They were described as looking like businessmen by other passengers in the comuter plane. Here it does not look like that - more the jeans folks.

11. All in all: this photo has a purpose, and in discussions I noticed it fulfills it. It looks like being evidence for Boston, but it is Portland. Most peole mistake it that way. And it is no evidence at all.

12. My opinion (but it is conspuracy theory !) is: it was faked.

[mirandapriestly]

9. The man over by the door is in the exact same position

in both photos. Those childhood games in "Highlights Magazine" where you find what's different in the pictures are put to good use at last.
Only 2 seconds passed, but still, it doesn't look very comfortable.

[Poll_Blind]

17. Never underestimate the lethargy of civil servants.

;-)

PB

[mirandapriestly]

21. true, heh heh.nt.

[mirandapriestly]

10. Why are there two different times on the screen?

and why is the printing across the screen? Shouldn't a surveillance camera leave the view unobstructed?
Where would they put their jackets that they were supposedly wearing according to the credible airline employee? (Tuey?) I can't imagine they would stuff them into those bags, and wouldn't they wear ties if they were considered to be "dressed for business"? Also why would Atta have carried the Paradise wedding suit or whatever it was, if he was already wearing a suit? (Although that is unrelated to this a little)

On another message board I found an opinion that there was evidence that this picture was taken in daylight because of the light patterns,and it was not daylight for another half hour or so, but I am not really good at telling that kind of stuff, seems kind of hard to prove.

[diamondsndust]

11. The one thing that really jumps out at me is ......

take a look at the first picture and notice how far behind that the guy in the yellow shirt is from the guy in the blue.

now look at picture number 2: the guy in yellow is almost right behind the guy in blue, meaning he somehow traveled twice the distance as blue shirt guy in the same TWO SECONDS!!

maybe it's just me, but it makes me wonder. any guesses on the measurements of those counters and how far each guy moved in 2 seconds??

the wheels in my head keep churning this thought out!

[Jazz2006]

12. OMG

The second guy might have gone from 3 feet away to 2.5 feet away in only TWO SECONDS.

Oops, I forgot to add the !!

Riveting stuff.

Absolutely riveting.

[diamondsndust]

14. it just struck me as funny...

maybe guy #2 was running? walking quickly?? guy #1 looks to have moved about 5 or 6 feet up the counter in the 2nd pic, with guy #2 about a foot behind him..... in the first picture guy #2 looks to be about 5 or 6 feet behind him...

just my observance....

[Jazz2006]

15. diamondsndust.... it appears that there is

very little difference in the distance between them based on the inanimate objects in the photos and the relative perspectives of the photos.

It's all about angle, trajectory, distance and perspective.

If you put all of those into the equation, there appears to be little, if any, difference in distance between the two guys in the two photos.

Note that the second shot is from a different angle, distance, and trajectory than the first photo and that you can't see anything of Guy #1's lower body but you can see the whole of Guy #2's body .... if you could see them both, you would also see the floor space in between them, etc., etc. and you could judge that in conjunction with the inanimate objects in the photos to ascertain a reasonably accurate distance between them relative to that in photo #1.

But since you can't see them in the same perspective in photo 2 as in photo 1, you can still resort to the inanimate objects in the photo and make certain assumptions about distance if you understand how angle, perspective and trajectory work in ascertaining distance.

If you don't know about photo angles, perspective, and foreshortening, you can look it up on the internet to gain an understanding of it, or talk to the photographers at your local camera shop.

Or... you can take your own camera and see it for yourself. Take a few shots from different angles and perspectives and see how different the distance between objects or people "appears" to be even when you set it up yourself and know exactly how far apart things are. That will give you an idea of the very basic of the basics in seeing how photographs can be interpreted and misinterpreted.

Then, even better, for purposes of comparing it to something like these two video stills, take a series of shots from the exact same location while people move in, through and out of your camera's range, and then analyze the series of photos that result and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

Anyway, nothing turns on it, but for future reference in interpreting photographic evidence, I hope this is of use to you.

And welcome to DU

:hi:

Cheers, Jazz.

[mirandapriestly]

13. Yeah, good observation. Around a corner, no less..

and yet the other guy doesn't move at all with his elbow up like that? There is also online a set of the 4 pictures and I looked at that and Al Omari's face is different.

[medienanalyse]

16. here are more photos

At least three witnesses who are not recognizable could be asked in an investigation:
one sitting on the right side, only legs to be seen,

one passenger
and one official at the screen

[seatnineb]

18. Andre II my friend.....

Here is a different interpretation:

The guy in the yellow shirt



could be Adnan Bukhari...without the sun glasses(and dyed hair):



And the guy in the blue shirt:



...could be Ameer Bukhari(with more hair!)



After all....these were the 2 original guys who were supposed to have passed through customs at Portland before the story was changed to Atta and Alomari....and even though at this juncture(9/11/01)......Ameer Bukhari had died the year before!



Police and law enforcement sources said the two brothers suspected in the Boston hijackings were Adnan Bukhari and Ameer Abbas Bukhari, who up until recent days had lived in Vero Beach, Florida. Both of their homes have been searched, the sources said.
The two rented a car, a silver-blue Nissan Altima, from an Alamo car rental at Boston's Logan Airport and drove to an airport in Portland, Maine, where they got on US Airways Flight 5930 at 6 a.m. Tuesday headed back to Boston, the sources said.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200109/13/eng20010913...

[greenman2]

19. when the video was first broadcast...

no the net, i was able to pull it off the website
( i think CNN ?)
the first day it was up, they changed it in a few hours.
i was able to save the FIRST one , its gone now i think
except for my copy and CNN etc...


anyway, here some ohter stills.
excuse any mistakes i threw the webpage up that night,
and havent got a chance to edit it.
I have a zipfile with the whole video if anyone needs it.

Portland video closeups

Berg video and Portland video

all caputures i did here
http://hijack77.0catch.com/video_stills.html

http://911review.org/brad.com/archives/portlandvideo/


By the way, what about the DTAE on this one ?
new thread ?

[mirandapriestly]

20. Good work, thank you.

wtf is up with that date? (and the different dates on the airport video? although they don't put it after 911)

[greenman2]

22. oh, it wasnt a camera malfunction either...

just in case anyone thinks it may have been a mis-date on the camera.
it clearly says MON
monday....
so 11-10-01
neither october 11th 2001
or
november 10th 2001
falls on a monday, i checked.

so if the camera was set a month ahead, it would read SAT
saturday
November 10th was a Saturday...

[KJF]

23. The time is wrong too

Here's the original set of photos released by the FBI:

The time on the screen is "8:28:29P", but they were there are 9:15.

You can find the press release, dated 14 October 2001, here:
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/100401.htm
It says:
"9:15 pm ATTA and AL-OMARI were at Jetport Gas Station, 446 Western, Avenue, South Portland, Maine. ATTA was wearing a half dark, half light colored shirt with light colored slacks."

"MON" could well mean monitoring or something.

Maybe it's the time they played it back. Who knows?