My brother no longer wants to discuss politics

[LittleClarkie]

because I just went apeshit all over him. I was doing okay, sorta, until he started in on the Swift vet crap. He believes it. I tried to say what we all know to be true, but he kept saying I was the one who was misinformed

I asked him if we should go get his medals and throw them out. That I should throw dad's medals away when I get them back from my sister, who is having a shadowbox made for them. Hell, they're all worthless. Apparently the military can't give out a medal to save its life. Well, asked isn't the right word. Screamed it was more like what I did. That's when he said we weren't to discuss politics in the house anymore if I was going to "fly off the handle."

Who am I kidding. It wasn't going well even up to that point. He's voting for Nader, but repeating all the Bush rhetoric. Kerry will raise your taxes.

So how do you counter the comment, "Kerry is raising taxes on his wife?!" I will admit the image is comical. "Honey? Can we talk?"

Kerry's "no new taxes" comment at the debate: he did make it clear he means those who make less than 200,000, right?

And my brother believes that the war in Iraq is going well. I said, "That makes three of you."

My brother keeps asking why people are afraid of Nader. He'd honestly like a third party, as he considers both Repubs and Dems corrupt.

Trying to make up a bit, he came to me later and said "You don't see me getting all upset, do you? It doesn't matter that much." I said I thought it did, especially feeling as I do about attacking Kerry's service. Attack what he did after the war, not during.


Then I got the "Vietnam was 30 years ago," copout. Then why bring up his medals. "I can talk about anything I want," he said. "I'm just trying to tell you the truth, but you won't listen."

He wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the ass and said "I'm here!"

He can not say anything he wants around me when he's putting down the military and doesn't even see it's politically related. Not when he's not telling the truth. He doesn't like Bush, and yet is perfectly happy to repeat his lies. I kept calling him a sheeple. That didn't go over too well. In a bleating voice I kept repeating "Sounds good to meeee."

"The Democrats are destroying people too."

"What? Who?" I answered.

"Haven't you heard about the signs being ripped down and the fraud?"

That's happening on his side too, I said.

"No it's not." He says he doesn't like Democrats, and then started talking about how they aren't the same as in Kennedy's day. There aren't any conservative Dems anymore. They're all leftists.

And the Republicans aren't the same either, I countered. They've moved to the right. He said, "No, they've just gotten better." :puke:

Great. My brother and roommate, someone who hasn't had a decent job in 3 1/2 years, is a Freeper. Swell. And I may have driven his Nader vote back to Bush. Yeah, mission accomplished. :eyes:

I'll just stick to data entry over at campaign HQ. We'll all be safer for it.

[bloom]

1. If he thinks the Dems are leftists

and the Republicans are getting better - he was probably a Republican anyway and didn't want to admit it.

[LittleClarkie]

4. He's a disenchanted Republican

who doesn't quite support Bush, but can't seem to support Kerry.

He listens to conservative radio all day and apparently thinks they're telling him the truth, along with CNN, FOX and MSNBC.

It's kind of cute though. He keeps asking me if I'm okay. Yeah, yeah, fine.

[Newsjock]

2. Wow, this must be the weekend

Families talk, they start talking about politics, and the rifts open up. I had a similar thing with my parents today, and I feel for you. And I've read enough other reports to know that we're not the only ones this is happening to.

We're being torn apart at the freakin' seams, all in the name of Halliburton and PNAC, and I don't know what can fix it. Electing Kerry is a necessary first step, but I don't know many people who now think that alone will fix things.

It will be years, if not decades, before this country is back to anything resembling what it was in 2000. And I do not blame Osama bin Laden (either the fat Osama or the thin Osama, for that matter) -- I blame George W. Bush and his roving band of international criminal thugs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2474603

[mazzarro]

3. Hey - don't feel too bad. You stood your ground. Hopefully the

gist will sink in in due course.

[bushwakker]

5. Gotta move on

I have lost some friends b/c of Bush. I have no respect for anyone who votes for him. I've learned to be very low key when I talk politics. It's better not to know how other people feel sometimes.

[BayouWoman]

6. Try not to let it get you down...

I know what it's like to have stubborn Republican family members.

At least you fought the good fight. I visited the family today, and didn't even bring it up. I know my dad, sister and brother-in-law(They vote on 1 issue only--abortion) are immovable, but I think I may be able to convince my mom. But I didn't even try today. we didn't have any quiet time together, and she wasn't feeling well. But I'm still hoping to get her by herself and talk to her about the election.

All we can do is try our best. And maybe our time is better spent working on others.

[LittleClarkie]

7. I think it might be good practice

I was proud of myself at work this week. I took the concerns that came up among my Repub co-workers as the news was bad on the war and domestic fronts and they found that Cheney lied. Talked up Kerry points without mentioning Kerry. That might be the best way. Just get them thinking.

Lost ground again with the school alert though. Eh.

[zulchzulu]

8. Make sure that they know Election Day is November 3rd

Don't believe the Liberal Media. It's really November 3rd.

[mitchum]

9. On the bright side, it should be very easy to trick your brother out...

of his share of the inheritance. Since he's such a dumbass and all :)

[Catt03]

10. My sister and I cannot discuss it either

We have a formal agreement to not discuss it.

My Father was a union organizer, very much an activist and this woman is a republican. I swear....I really believe she is adopted.

[seabeyond]

11. my brother and fatehr everywhere they can will go on and on

adn i will keep mouth shut. learned spring, doesnt do any good to talk. they yell and interupt when i do start giving them the info, like rush and hannity, repug talk 101. as soon as i did speak up i get accused of being irrational and starting things. f* em. havent talked it for months with those two.

and i have lost a lot of repect for them too

[BUSHOUT]

12. Sounds like a domestic dispute.....not campaign 2004 material.

[cheshire]

13. Your Brother doesn't know Ralph Nadar very well. He needs to see this

http://www.realchange.org.
There is a factual report on his third party. Which proves RN is one of the same thing he think Pubs. and Dems are.

[LittleClarkie]

15. He doesn't even believe Nader's getting Repub money

Let alone Swift vets. Denial, denial, denial.

[cheshire]

16. He is not attempting to know the truth? Maybe you can leave a copy for him

I'm sorry but he's still your brother. He is just one guy, maybe two with roommate. Look at how many you can help to see. He will kick his own butt later as so many others have said that voted for him last time. Take a walk and don't worry we are doing fine. Hard when it's family.

[footinmouth]

14. I feel your pain

I've banned political talk at my house. I just can't stand the fighting that goes on. I'm skipping the next family in-law event as well. I just can't be in the same room with 12 Republicans all sitting there talking trash about my candidate. Minds aren't changed, regardless of what I might say, so I'll just phone in sick for next Saturday's shoutfest.

[LittleClarkie]

17. I've had one good discussion in the last two weeks

at the pub, of all places.

The Repub in question was very respectful. He asked me to give my reasons, and I asked for his for voting for Bush. We disagreed with each other, but both had at least looked at the issues. We both said we were pleased that the other was making the effort.

He was happy just to talk to someone on the supject. In the college town he lived in, he gets trounced by his progressive neighbors. In his family they already agree with him, so where's the fun.

Those people are so few and far between. Far more are ditzy beyond belief, and childish.

[Spangle]

18. I know longer fight it that way.

Let's face realitys. They don't. Alot of the stuff republican agenda is for, some republicans are clueless about. But being involved like I am, I know the dividing lines. I'm not talking about the big stuff. I'm talking about the sort of stuff that when it comes up, generaly people don't think will ever effect them. It is during those momments that I attack and I have no pitty.

Example, My Republican boss came in one day totaly upset over one of his friends being deported over these new "rules" to keep our country safe. cough, cough. The man has lived here for years, has an american wife and children. My boss was upset and wanted me to "write" and do stuff about it. I bluntly asked him why he was complaining. Then I asked, but I thought you were a Republican. Then I pointed out that all these people he wanted to write too were also republican and that they are using this "rule" for political advantage to get the "bad guy." They are NOT going to help you. This IS the republican agenda. It is YOUR agenda, why are you whining NOW?

That is what I ment "without pitty". I had no pitty for my boss. It's an agenda he choose to support.

I dont' talk politics during the "hot" campaign season. I do it during the other times in our life. When people are more likely to listen and relate to reality, not fancy speaches and BS.

When My Nephew told me he was considering becomeing a republican. I told him that was nice. But I thought he was going to college. He responded that he still was going. Then I asked him how he was expecting to pay for it. He mentioned grants, etc.. Then I reminded him that as a republican, surely he would turn away from such WEALFARE! THen I reminded him that the only welfare that republicans support is corp. welfare and he wasn't rich enough for it. All the rest, including grants for collges, republicans believe should be done away with. And accepting those grants isn't practicing what he will be preaching.

A new voter that I know, she is gay. She is voting for Bush because of the abortion issue. Same deal. She is a "christian" and is afraid of telling her parents. Do I pitty her, nope. She is chosing to support the Republican agenda and that includes what that agenda feels about gays and their rights.

For any of this to make and impact, it must be personal. WHich is why the abortion issue works so well. People take their religan personaly and love fighting for it. So much so, they are ignoring everything else. Show them the many ways the republican agenda is personaly against them. Make them think. THen leave them alone. If you agrue to much with them, they will just build brick walls. And will fight to keep up those brick walls. When they are in the fighting mode, they are not listening anyway. THey are afraid of loosing face. Don't put them in the postions of feeling like they are loosing face. Give them things to think about and leave them alone.

[MissMarple]

21. Good point. Defending an idea makes you own it all the more.

And as for the abortion issue, pro choice lets the individual choose, anti choice means just that, there are no individual, personal circumstances, the government has made the same decision for us all. Now how does a good Christian grow in strength and faith under those circumstances?

[LiberalAndProud]

27. I am so tired

of single-issue voters (gun control or abortion, take your pick)

Under the Repuke agenda, many more children will be born in order to starve to death, or die from disease without access to medical care, or be gunned down on a street corner by perfectly legal firearms ...

go figur

[LittleClarkie]

28. One guy I met didn't pick

He picked both.

While simultaneously selling a t-shirt that said "Vote Bush, because there's no limit on Democrat this year" he also argued against the Democrats because of abortion. "Thou shall not kill."

A pro-life pro-gun guy. Where to begin... where to begin.

[Cats Against Frist]

19. A Happy Story

Four months ago, my dad was totally for Smirky. He was repeating the talking points, blah, blah, blah.

My mom is and always will vote Dem, but my dad and brother both identified with the GOP (big trucks, rural, country music).

My brother and my dad are voting for Kerry. And they are enthusiastic about it. It's weird, but a lot of my conservative family is making the "switch." Why? John Edwards. My mom even asked me how she should counter the argument: "Why can't Edwards be at the top of the ticket? I don't trust John Kerry."

I said: "Tell them, for starters, the Republicans have an attack machine, out to smear him. He fought in Vietnam, he's been in the Senate for 20 years and he's rich, but he's fighting for the little guy. Tell them that if they vote this ticket in, that they might get a chance with Edwards at the top, in 2012."

And then, I said: "If all else fails, vote for Kerry, because Hillary Clinton won't be able to run in 2008!" :) (These people are GOP/Butternut Dems of the Zell Miller variety -- very socially conservative, but pro-union, anti-Iraq war (mostly), but VERY sentimental over 9-11, hate Islam and anyone foreign -- and they really don't like Hillary Clinton...but they LOVE John Edwards. Go figure.)

But my parents just bought "F-911" and they are going to watch "Unprecedented" the next time it's on the Sundance Channel. My mom thinks that the boy king is a first-class idiot -- I think it might have even been more she than myself that swayed my dad and brother. She's an interesting study -- pro-life, feminist in all other ways, racist as all get out, pro-gay marriage and adoption, xenophobic as all get out, pro-union, VERY anti-rich, anti-"fat cats," wants "Under God" in the pledge, doesn't give a squeeze about environmental issues, wants to close the borders, loves Wal-Mart, McDonald's -- oblivious to any non-American issues -- but she's a lifelong Democrat. A very confused one. :) But God bless her.

I am sorry to hear that things are bad with your family. Most all of my friends are in the same position -- one or two have a pro-Kerry mom, but a pro-Bush dad. My boyfriend has two sets of parents (divorce) -- one vehemently pro-Bush, the other FLAMIN' for Kerry (they think Cheney is the anti-Christ. (don't we all?)).

Keep your chin up. Even though my mom is voting for Kerry, we've spent almost 12 years, still at odds over racism, and I know how it feels to disagree with someone in your family, and feel really bad about it. Good luck.

[LittleClarkie]

23. Thanks. Thanks to all y'all.

My brother mentioned during the arguement that one of my earlier selling points was all shored up now. "Bush is patrolling the borders like he should now. They're being very strict."

Gee, just in time for the election. Only three years too late. How special. Yes, as a matter of fact, I do feel safer now. Meh.

[qwlauren35]

20. Sounds to me like ...

your brother made the right decision. You have different political views, you're not going to influence each other, and so you're wasting good air and disrupting family harmony.

You'll do a lot more good taking your views to the undecided. When we canvass for the campaign, we spend as little time with Bush supporters as possible. It's more productive to speak to those we can win than those we can't.

[MADem]

22. Leave a DVD of F/911

lying about the house, and perhaps while he's thumbing through the want ads looking for decent work, he'll pop it in while you are off at Campaign HQ. If that doesn't open his eyes, he is permanently blinded.

[Iris]

26. Or better yet, YOU should try to see "Outfoxed"

It talks about how Republicans and people like them try to twist the conversation up by making ridiculous statements - mostly opinions that can't be disputed because they are only opinions. Their idea is that creating a tie or a standstill in the argument is just as good as winning because they are denying the other side the "win".

[Iris]

24. Wait - Nader is an alternative to "leftists"?

Your brother is full of crap. Sorry, I know he's your brother but he sounds like one of those people who calls themselves libertarian because they somehow think it sounds "cooler" than being a Republican or a Democrat.

And he thinks this race doesn't matter? Where has he been hiding?

[AngryAmish]

25. Have nothing to do with him

Cut him out of your life completely. He not worth knowing.