Geez! Could everyone please get the explosives story straight?

[troublemaker]

These are corrections of the most common errors I am seeing in understanding the missing explosives story.

These explosives have nothing to do with nuclear weapons except that they were purchased as part of Sadaam's 1980s nuke program. CNN keeps saying they can be used to detonate a nuclear weapon. Of course they can... as can any other type of high explosive. These are not in any way nuclear materials. It's high explosive, like what's used in grenades or for commercial building demolition or in mining or a zillion other things. If reporters would simply call these explosives "plastic explosive" everyone would understand the story better.

This material disappeared a year ago, not a month ago. The only reason this is a story today is because the year-long cover-up has collapsed. The COVER UP is the story. Bush refused to cooperate with the UN on this because he didn't want voters in the US to know about the story until after the election and knew the IAEA would publish their findings about the missing material.

Don't forget that the inspectors were in Iraq before we invaded. They inventoried and sealed this material in 2003. (A lot of freeps think the material disappeared after the inspectors left in 1998, forgetting--as freeps always do--that the inspectors were allowed back into the country in 2002)

This is not material that "may be used" for something; this material HAS been used for the last year to blow up hundreds of our soldiers and thousands of Iraqis.

This material was in place when we invaded but was NEVER secured by us. The IAEA tried to do something about it but we refused to let them in because they are part of the UN. They noticed the material was being looted from commercial satellite photos and warned us AGAIN about it. Yet if one reads the NYT article their reporter saw that site still being looted LAST SUNDAY, still with no US guard of any sort.


Everyone on TV (and elsewhere) needs to read the entire NYT story as well as everything on Talking Points Memo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/international/middleeast/25bomb.html?hp&ex=1098676800&en=61cf6e1aa29b7871&ei=5094&partner=homepage

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[Carni]

1. Moron Carol Costello on CNN this AM

Kept referring to the stolen goods as "weapons" this morning...
I wanted to jump into the TV and choke her.

[Beetwasher]

2. I Think It's Important To Link Them To Nuclear Detonation

It may be a bit bombastic and somewhat of a propogandistic ploy, but it works against Bush. He let this material that can faciliate nukes get into the hands of terrorists. He can't keep us safe from Nukes. That's the implication and it works for me.

[troublemaker]

5. It works for you because you're a Kerry voter

For morons it sounds like there's a new Threat and they are likely to trust Bush to protect them from these new nuclear weapons the terrorists have.

The point of emphasis should be that this material has killed 100s of our soldiers.

Kerry wins on Iraq casualties and loses on terrorism. (It's a mistake to tie this to nuclear proliferation, even though that's a Kerry issue.)

[Beetwasher]

9. Baloney

It works for anyone. Bush allowed this to happen and he's incompetent. End of story. What's so hard to understand? I've heard no less than three people this morning comment on this story and ALL of them blamed Bush and NONE of them were hard core Kerry supporters, in fact one of them was leaning Bush.

[ClintonTyree]

3. All part of Bush's"perpetual war" program...............

if we take all of their weapons away, they won't be able to fight. Bush wanted to leave them something so they could continue the "war on terra" unabated.

[w4rma]

4. They are more than just plastic explosives. It appears that really really

high explosive explosive matieral is required to set off a nuclear bomb's radioactive core. The stuff that was stolen was of that high intensity. There was some plastic explosives that were missing, but that seems to be chickenfeed compared to the *really* *really* high explosives that were there and are now missing.

Now this "may be used" crap I agree with. If they felt like being accurate, they would say that these explosives "may HAVE BEEN used" or "LIKELY WERE used" in the many bombings that have gone on around Iraq since after the looting which Rumsfield called merely "untidy".

[troublemaker]

7. No, there's nothing special here (nuke wise)

(We didn't have these particular plastic explosives in 1945, for instance.)

High explosive in shaped charges is used for implosion detonating nukes. If you are trying to build nukes you get the best material available, which happens to be this stuff. But the material in question is not specific to nuke applications at all. It's very common in the world for applications having nothing to do with nukes.

There is no proliferation issue because this stuff is openly available to any government.

Our military keeps claiming all the IEDs are made from artillery shells, and they have probably been lying.

[LynnTheDem]

6. Safe BEFORE and UNTIL bush came along

1. These explosives were KNOWN and MONITORED and SECURED by the UN for YEARS.

2. Until bush invaded, these explosives were KNOWN and MONITORED and SECURED.

3. bush KNEW BEFORE his invasion about these KNOWN, SECURED, MONITORED explosives.

4. bush kicked out the UN weapons inspectors and invaded Iraq, leaving these KNOWN, PREVIOUSLY MONITORED AND SECURED explosives SITTING THERE.

5. bush never ordered these KNOWN, PREVIOUSLY MONITORED AND SECURED explosives be secured; bush LEFT THEM SITTING THERE for ANYONE to steal.

6. bush was WARNED MANY TIMES during the past 18 months that these explosives WERE IN FACT BEING LOOTED.

7. bush carried on DOING NOTHING to secure these explosives.

8. These PREVIOUSLY MONITORED AND SECURED explosives are now GONE and no one knows where or by whom.

These explosives were KNOWN and MONITORED and SECURED by the UN for YEARS. . .until BUSH came along.

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

8. Weren't there also nuclear materials stolen?

Weren't there rods or other material that could be used in a dirty nuke stolen from Saddam's facilities, too? I think that's where people are getting the nuclear tag attached to this.

Then again, they wouldn't need to steal any nuclear material with all of the depleted uranium all over the place.

[troublemaker]

11. Yes, cobalt and cessium were taken but not from al Qaaqaa (different story

[unfrigginreal]

10. Anyone that thinks mistakenly reporting this story as WMD's

is good for Bush, is missing the forest for the trees.

[mzmolly]

13. This is why I've always said the Dems need to seperate NUKES from WMD's

Everyone KNEW Saddam may have had "WMD's" technically speaking. What we didn't "know" was that Saddam Hussein supposedly had Nukes.

Bush claimed that Saddam had a Nuke program and he was within months of developing a "Nukular" weapon. The Righties always provide quotes from Dems saying "Saddam had WMD's" but fail to miss the crucial difference between weaponry and NUKES.

I think we made a huge mistake not differentiating this CLEARLY before.

:shrug:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. Cover-up is part of the story. Very big part.

Thanks for the cliff notes to the story. It is indeed one of the bogger aspects to the story.

[BUSHOUT]

14. I think you've gotten a few things wrong too!

It's not "plastic explosive", it's formed as a crystalized powder which is compressed into cakes/blocks.

It's classified as a "military" explosive, although yes it is used in commercial purposes also.

The IAEA sealed it because it's effective for detonating a nuke...moreso than most other explosives.

I agree it's been covered up by the WH, and they admitted as much in the story when they admitted they know it went missing sometime after the invasion.
The WH is trying to confuse the truth behind the cover up by telling us that Condi was told a month ago.

Yes,it was secured just before the invasion!
And yes, Bush was warned by the IAEA before AND after the invasion.

It's huge. The truth is outing. I just wish the media would call it what it is...pick any of these:
"high explosive"
"military explosive"
"powerful explosive"
shit, I'd even be happy if they called it "plastic explosive"!!

They've got to dispell the impression they've been giving that these were rusty old bombs and munitions.

[ThePhilosopher04]

15. It'll take a day or two for this story to hit home...

simply because of the complexity of it. While it may not be complex for DU readers, it is for the "average Joes" who get their news from sound bites and headlines.