Lemme tell you a tale of what bush has wrought just in my neighborhood

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

My next door neighbor was working for an airline I won't name when 9/11 happened. She'd been working for them for twenty years. Her husband worked in the IT industry.

You can see it coming, right?

Right after 9/11, I remember going outside and watching her weed her garden. It was a beautiful day and she was weeding and sobbing. Her husband was in Florida for a conference when it happened and was having to get back by bus. She was worried sick she'd be laid off and to make matters worse, her entire retirement account was in stock of that airlines.

Guess what happened?

She was laid off and he was laid off. Previously they made pretty decent money. I'd guess $200K combined.

They had two daughters in college at the time and one son and another daughter coming up fast.

They took out a second mortgage on their house, lived on their savings and she took unemployment (I resisted the urge to rub it in her face that she used to talk smack of people who took "handouts").

He found another job at much reduced pay and benefits and she found another job 18 months later (long after the savings and unemployment had run out) making MUCH less and has NO benefits. She also now has a one hour commute each way. In their heyday she bought a Suburban and now bitches almost daily about the cost of gas just to go to work each day.

Their oldest daughter was close to graduation so she declared herself financially independent and took out $5000 in loans in order to finish. She is now searching for a teaching job.

The second daughter dropped out. Working at a drug store now.

Their son is in his second year in college. Tuition costs blew them the hell away and they spent many an anxious day wondering how they were going to pay for it. They put his first semester's tuition and books on their MASTERCARD. He joined the ROTC and now has an Army scholarship, which means his ass belongs to the Army for SIX years after he graduates. The war scares them to death.

They despair of sending the youngest to college at all.

About six months after 9/11, with all bush and cheney and Ridge's talk of duct tape and plastic sheeting and mushroom clouds and WMDs and Saddam Hussein wanting to kill us and having his shit here in 45 minutes, it was more than she could bear. She had a nervous breakdown, convinced a terrorist attack was imminent. Her husband had to check her into a psych ward for "rest." She was placed on anti-depressants, uncovered by his medical insurance. She stopped taking them.

The foundation on their house is totally cracked, but they can't afford to fix it and their homeowner's insurance won't fix it. Their washing machine just broke. No money to replace it. Their son, while home for summer break this past summer, had a wreck on his way to his job mowing lawns. His fault. Their car insurance skyrocketed.

Anytime anyone has a cookout or a potluck dinner or anything, they are invited. She makes jokes about needing to go to the grocery store to explain why she didn't bring a dish. But we know. And we say nothing. We share what we have.

They are both voting for Bush.

Can anyone explain this to me? The three families closest to them are voting Kerry (including my family). We have talked to them in the most patient manner, pointing out their misconceptions, showing them where a bush administration has hurt, not helped their family.

To no avail. Some people must like punishment, that's all I can figure.

[jean]

1. can you access the kids? Three are voting age...on second thought

I bet the kids (if they vote) will not vote bush.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

15. The boy

is not voting for bush. He is voting libertarian, because he thinks they'll kill him if he votes Kerry (but like I told him, how would they know???) and the oldest daughter is voting for Kerry. She doesn't give a shit what they think. The second daughter is not even registered to vote and the youngest is barely 16.

Fortunately the kids seem to be better tuned in than their parents.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

2. That's what I'm finding all around me.

People who've suffered as a direct result of Bush policies, but they're going to vote for him anyway. In your neighbor's case, you said how terrified she is of terrorism and the only thing I can think of is that Bush's advertising that makes Kerry out to be a wimp where terrorists are concerned is working. It's such a shame they don't take the time to find out just how serious Kerry is about terrorism and just how complacent Bush was before 911.

[Joe Turner]

39. Precisely

"It's such a shame they don't take the time to find out just how serious Kerry is about terrorism and just how complacent Bush was before 911."

John Kerry needs to get the truth through to the American People that not only did Bush ignore warning after warning of an imminent Al Quida attack he took off almost the full month of August in 2001 after only being in office for less than 7 months. And when he got his lazy, disinterested A$$ back into the oval office he again ignored even more serious warnings of a brewing attack on America.

911 happened because of Bush's gross incompetence and laziness. This point, which Michael Moore focused on in F911 needs to be pounded home now until Election Day. Most people are unaware of the facts leading up to 911.

[LittleClarkie]

44. He is trying

but it's like these people have a news filter on. They hear only what they want to hear, and attribute anything that sounds bad for Bush as "liberal media bias."

[Joe Turner]

53. I agree but do most Americans know about Shrub's vacations?

His month long vacation prior to 911? Or that Shrub has taken more vacation time than any other president in U.S. History? All this recreation time that Bubble Boy has seen fit to take as our soldiers die and get maimed in his Iraq disaster. As our economy tanks and joblessness rises. As the budget deficit explodes. As Shrub lurches from one disaster to another.

No, I don't think this point has been effectively communicated or exploited in the campaign and it should be because it reveals the Real George W. Bush and it is not a pretty picture...as you so well know.

[NMDemDist2]

3. sigh

how sad is that?

our story is very similar, we filed bankrupcty two weeks ago. Income cut by 65% since 9/11

i was in the tourism industry and hubby was IT and out sourced

luckily we don't have kids in college, but we don't go out to eat any more, haven't seen a movie in over a year (except F9/11) Haven't bought a new pair of shoes or a shirt in 2 years

God, just writing that I had a wave of HATRED wash over me for these SOBs in the White House

[babylonsister]

4. WOW!

Go figure, eh? Do they have ANY valid reasons other than fear? I'd think economic fear would also count for something, bu I guess not. It never ceases to amaze me..

[fob]

5. You know I read that whole fucking sordid tale and hoped to high water

that this line;

They are both voting for Bush.

was NEVER going to show up. I knew better than to hope that but I'm a Democrat, that's just the way I am. Sometimes there isn't an answer to some questions, this is one of those situations.

Voting FOR bush*, geez, the size and cost of their disconnect ALONE should be enough to bankrupt them.

Have they seen F 9/11? Hold a pot-luck, invite them and give them the opportunity to throw off the shackles of shrub*ism! Put up a big white sheet and show the film for the whole damn neighborhood.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

17. I've offered to loan them my copy

and it turns out they sold their DVD player in a yard sale. Then I invited them over to watch it, they declined politely.

[CitySky]

42. just play it

when they come over to do the laundry. ;)

ok, ok, that's a little mean, I know. I feel bad for this whole sad country under *.

Just for the record, I was also laid off in Nov. 2002 and make about 10% less now. But I'm one of the lucky ones, still, by a great deal.

[Lisa]

6. Denial?

Perhaps they feel that changing their vote would be admitting that they had made a mistake, and that they are somehow at fault for their torrent of misfortune. (Some rightwing GOPers seem to think this ... that poor people are that way because they're being punished for something they did wrong. Bush himself used to go on about "lazy" people, much to the irritation of his economics prof.)

And maybe they think that these are just temporary inconveniences, and that they'll soon be back to "normal" with 200k a year thanks to Bush's promises, so they still view themselves as affluent.

p.s. Even if Democrats believe that people brought it on themselves by voting for Bush, they wouldn't say so (just as you bit back the words many times) -- but just do what they can to help those who are going through a bad spell. That unfortunate family is lucky to have you as a neighbor.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

18. Thanks

and yes, I think they are experiencing a MAJOR case of denial and cognitive dissonance.

I cannot get them to see the light.

[Lisa]

30. a friend once explained it to me this way ...

Authoritarians (like the Bushies) want to make it personal -- they'd scrap the court system, unemployment benefits, medicare, etc., if they think ONE person is "getting too much". Never mind the millions of people who are given a chance at a better life, and kept out of poverty.

But the moderates would rather feed extra mouths than run the risk of turning away the needy. They think in terms of a "social contract" -- not in terms of nickels and dimes. Like you at the potluck. If all the food is eaten and people go away contented with their dignity intact, that's fine. Authoritarians, on the other hand, would be busy counting the spoons. Seems so cold and punitive by comparison, doesn't it! (When one considers that, prior to the FDR era, a lot of charities were run by authoritarian types and the money doled out based on their assessment of character .... it added a whole new terror to poverty.)

Your neighbors may never see the light. But I noticed that you're more worried about their well-being than about winning any arguments (whereas if the situation were reversed, they might be more focused on getting you to say what they'd want you to say!). You're a good person. I wouldn't want a $200,000 income, even ten times that, if there weren't people like you in the neighborhood.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

33. Aw Lisa!

That actually made me tear up. We try to take care of each other. My philosophy is that we are here for two reasons: to make the earth a better place than when we found it and to help out our fellows.

That's it. So of course I know they are hurting and we have potluck dinners more often. I wrote a glowing recommendation for her to get a new job (and I teased her by telling her that I put "She's ok for a Republican...."), I helped their oldest daughter find financial aid when she didn't know how.

I believe in the exact opposite of the republican screw you philosophy and most all DUers do, too. Garrison Keillor sums it up quite well in his new book "Homegrown Democrat."

Thanks again, you are a sweetheart.

[atreides1]

7. Because

People like that do not have the courage to admit that they were wrong, and to them voting for anyone but Bush is an admission.

Reality means nothing, peolpe like them could watch as Bush burned down their house and they would still support him. These kinds of people are die hards, and they will never give up on Bush.

[Bark Bark Bark]

13. Aye

My father laughed in my face (such a good man) when Reagan beat Carter--then spent four solid years bitching and moaning that Reagan's policies were killing him.

Then he voted for Reagan again.

Then he spent four solid years bitching and moaning that Reagan's policies were killing him.

Then he voted for Daddy Bush.

Then he spent...well, you get the idea. Haven't spoken to the feculent redneck in years; if he's still alive, he's snarling about "cowardly rat bastards" like Kerry and the "threat" they present to the country.

"I'm a Republican, like my father and his father and his father before him."
"Ah, so it's a genetic disease, then."

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

22. ROFL

genetic disease, you said it

[expatriate]

31. this sounds familiar

My own father did similar things. According to him, he "couldn't afford" to support Carter, no matter how much information about the fact that Carter did not cause double-digit inflation was given to him. He voted Reagan. Spent four years bitching about Reaganomics and all the other stuff that went along with Ronnie - and voted for Reagan again. Then voted for Poppy Bush. Actually voted for Clinton when Bush ran the second time - not on the issues, but because he didn't like Poppy's whiny voice. And Clinton was from Arkansas, which was where he lived.

This man was once a highly educated and intelligent university professor, and voted for McGovern. Over the years he listened to talk radio, even all night, because he would go to sleep with his earplug in while the right wing loonies raved on and on. It was tragic to see him being taken over by a pod person. Between the talk radio and the martinis, his brain melted.

The folks in the original post sound like those who just can't admit when they're wrong. They probably blame all their troubles on the terrorists who hijacked the planes, and refuse to see the link to Bush and his policies and lack of action. They probably never will.

[KT2000]

8. Maybe the last straw

for them would be to acknowledge that their values need some re-examination.
Bush and the RW offer people the gift of being "the chosen, superior people." They still believe they are better than others and their problems were caused by al Queda. They don't want a more just society, they want to return to their perch of superiority.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. All right, I just tore my remaining hair out after hearing that. Even

though I already knew what the ending of that story was going to be halfway through.

Maybe those folks ought to drop in at Crawford for potluck at the shrubyas. I'm sure they would be welcome... :eyes:

[Citizen Kang]

10. They deserve their fate

I have no sympathy for people that ignorant, who vote against their self interest and for a man who is responsible for their suffering.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

24. I've decided IF bush wins

and either one of them bitches about ANYTHING financial or otherwise related to their situation as helped along by bush, I am going to tell them in no uncertain terms they VOTED FOR IT. That Kerry as President would have helped get us on the right track, but they voted for the wrong guy and I really don't want to hear it, especially because we are ALL affected by it.

I won't take that hard line of an approach unless * wins, though.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

11. Well..what reasons do they give for voting for Bush?

It could be they are more values-based voters, and economics isnt the deciding factor for them.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

20. They are into conservative social

issues, although she has seriously seen the light on the gay marriage/gay rights issue in the last three years, to the point of being quite a supporter. Her husband hasn't come that far, though his position on that has softened.

You know what her main defense is?

"Because I'm Republican and my parents were Republican and they raised me that way."

I told her this is NOT her father's Republican party anymore, demonstrated how it isn't and her reaction was that she does not care. She wants to remain "loyal" to the repuke party.

Even if it hurts her.

Even if it hurts me. The closest I got to getting her to break down was when I pointed out that the policies she votes for hurt ALL of us. She changed the subject.

He just flat-out won't discuss any of it anymore.

[never cry wolf]

36. Have you shown them the letters from prominent repugs?

There have been a raft of them lately, most posted here as well. John Eisenhower, former governors from MI and MN and a former Sen from KY I think. All lifelong repubes that are votong for Kerry this year.

Here's a link to the Eisenhower letter: http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=44657

[jean]

43. I see a small crack in their logic! Can you point out all the traditional

Republicans who are turning against bush? Tell her he's not a 'real' Republican and why.

Does she know about neocons?

Does she know the GOP didn't used to wrap itself around fundamental religion until bush came on the scene?

[tsuki]

47. I watched Arnuld on CSpan

over the week-end. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa. But it gave me a prospective. I now tell the local Repubs to listen to him. I tell them that they are voting for the Reagan Repubs, when what they are actually doing is voting for a much changed party, and not for the better, unless you actually believe God told Bush to lie to the American people about the Iraqi.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

50. Well..there are plenty of good traditional republicans out there...

..and some will be running in the 2008 primary.

In this case its time to vote the man not the party. Alot of traditional Democrats voted for Reagan becuase they thought Carter was too weak.

This time alot of traditional, long term Republicans, whos folks & grandparents where GOP, are voting for Kerry becuase Bush is just not competent enough. That doesnt make them Democrats., and they can still split their tickets and go back to voting Republican in 2008.

[nosmokes]

12. why people will continually vote against their own best

interest is a mystery to me. i'll never understand it, i guess, but i try. there's a book, *what's the matter with kansas*, by thomas frank, where he talks about how the republicans have convinced much of middle america to vote against themselves essentially based on the scare tactics of some moral positions like abortion or the death penalty.

and some people have swallowed the whole bottle of blue pills and believe all of the tripe sqWormco is selling. i was talking to a woman earlier today that hates bush but doesn't wanna vote for kerry because kerry's platform isn't "solid enough." i tried to pin her down, but that wwas the best i got, kerry just wasn't strong enough. for the love of pete, a war hero isn't strong enough.

[Doctor_J]

14. there was an article a couple weeks ago

about how one woman is voting for * because she and her hubby both took pay cuts, and thus *'s economy taught them to live more simply.

Some f these people are waaaaaaaay beyond help.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

25. OMG.

Just OMG. Speechless.

[The Wielding Truth]

38. What a deluded person. Okay she loves to be subject to King George.

I don't!

[sbj405]

16. I am constantly amazed how people can vote against their own interests.

Pose the very simple question to them "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?"

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

26. Ha!

The answer to that would be HELL NO and they couldn't deny it. But the very next thing out of their mouths would be "9/11 changed everything!" I swear * hit the jackpot that day.

[sbj405]

40. There's no denying that our economy suffered greatly from 9/11

(particularly since she worked for an airline). Even if they are willing to delude themselves into believing there was no warning, certainly the actions taken by the current administration post-9/11 have done nothing but harm your neighbors. Their children will be paying off more than their student loans for years to come.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

19. One can only hope that they don't vote at all. Sigh, Texas...

So, what, did their pastor tell them that shrubbie thumps his Bible harder than Kerry does?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

21. No actually

they are unhappy with their church because they feel it is getting "too liberal." It is the United Methodist Church, bush's supposed church and it came out against the war before it started and one of its bishops just wrote a scathing article about how bush is NOT Christian in his actions!

So they are considering leaving the United Methodist Church and finding one more conservative. Won't have any trouble around here.

[wildeyed]

23. Pray for them.

Seriously. Because nothing short of divine intervention will help them.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

28. ...

I have, actually. Especially when they were going through all this mess (still are, but when it was real bad).

I even forgot to mention something else! Her mother died of cancer about six months ago, after a VERY long extended illness. Her father is retired Air Force. Because of cuts to dependent health care for retired military her level of care was diminished in the last few months of her life. They had to FIGHT the Air Force to get to agree to pay for hospice care.

Sheesh. I wanted to point out that was due directly to bush budget cuts in that area, but....she was already a total basket case about her mom. Her mom was only 61 and her death was really horrible with a lot of pain.

[MissB]

27. I would suggest

reading George Lakoff's book "Don't think of an Elephant". Best explanation of why people vote against their interests. Short book, well worth the $10.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

29. Thanks

I'll look it up on Amazon!

I would love to be able to wrap my mind around this. It Just. Doesn't. Make. Sense. Talk about being the poster family for needing to vote Democratic, eh?

[MissB]

32. Oh I agree completely!

It's been bothering me for a better part of a year- why on earth do people vote against their interests? Even with incredibly over-whelming evidence? Why?

I thought Frank's book "What's the Matter With Kansas?" would address the question better. But it didn't (imo). I was pleasantly surprised to read Lakoff's book.

[ClassWarrior]

34. Yup. They're voting their values, not their interest.

Read "Don't Think of an Elephant," by George Lakoff, one of the most important progressive thinkers to come along in a lonnnggggg time.

24.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

41. Well then to be quite honest

their values SUCK. Because their values must be "we support war profiteering, illegal, unjust, immoral wars of choice, and making people's lives more difficult."

Seriously, those "values" totally suckity-suck-suck.

[ClassWarrior]

49. Read the book.

The amazing thing is how Lakoff NAILS the fact that we just can't CONCEIVE how they can believe what they believe, so they must be stupid. But we won't win the victories that we deserve to win until we acknowledge that - while they're totally wrong - they're anything but stupid. And we need to understand their reasoning to be able to defeat it.

24.

[Zero Division]

35. I believe it. Many Conservative Christians would be just fine with

America turning into a third-world hell hole if it meant abortion was banned and the "homosexual agenda" was defeated. Then they'd blame all of the other problems in America on us evil liberals. Frightening.

But not all of them are like that. My parents have also begun to see the light on GLBT issues, but they're still very anti-choice when it comes to abortion. Despite this they're both safely in the Kerry camp. They realize the harm that another 4 years of Bush will do on every other issue. Plus my father's always been a life-long Republican-hater, regardless of how he's felt about the Democratic positions on social issues.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

37. The funny thing is

they are NOT anti-choice and she supports LGBT rights. He's still a bit of a homophobe, but not nearly like he used to be.

They ARE both a bit racist, though they hide it around me and mine nowdays (we let them know in no uncertain terms what we thought of their prejudices).

[Zero Division]

48. That is odd. Leftover racism is hard to kill in some parts of the South.

But it's odd that they're not anti-choice and less homophobic, but still racist.

I bet they're views on just about everything would change if they didn't live in a state with so many hardcore right wingers. I grew up in a similar social environment (spent 9 years of my life in the South, 6 of them in SE Lousiana--I know about the racism that still exists and how hard it can be to be liberal in areas like that) and didn't become fully liberal until several years of living out of it.

[nonconformist]

55. Ahh, that's the kicker

Racism. I think that is a root to a lot of this stuff. People always seem to think it's the wedge issues of abortion and gay marriage, but that's not always the case. But racist and prejudiced views are what are torpedoing the fear and justification for war. It's easy to distance yourself from Iraqi civilian deaths when you don't see them as equal human beings. It's easy to get your brain around the idea of conquering the Middle East and U.S. world domination when you think your race, nationality and religion are far superior.

[The Straight Story]

45. My guess as to why

1. They see the cause of their woes as being the terrorists for carrying out the acts (analogy - murder victim's family blaming the killer and not the mayor) and the IT job lost due to the dot com boom which was mismanaged and went out of control.

2. They blame themselves for what they did not do in the good years - get a cheaper house with lower mortage, better cars (ie lower mileage and cost, lower insurance, et al) and they could have saved more by living cheaper which would help them get through the bad times.

And if you think those two things sound like a RW talking point memo - keep in mind they are RW and one could probablyt guess if that you asked them if they agreed with those two things they would agree.

[Jacobin]

46. Let them know that if Smirk is elected and they have to go file bankruptcy

that they will be shit out of luck.

If the BK bill passes in 2005, they'll have to live on the IRS standard for subsistence expenses and pay the 'excess' of their salary to their creditors for FIVE YEARS in a Chapter 13. Sorry, no Chapter 7.

Guess they'll REALLy love Smirky after that, since they obviously yearn to be serfs again.

[Strelnikov_]

51. From WW II History I Have Read, A Lot Of Germans Still Supported Hitler

at the end of the war, their country in ruins.

All I can figure is that they cannot accept they were wrong in their choice of a leader. Also, I think with a cult of personality, which Boosh has developed, the followers blame any failings on those around the leader, and not the leader himself.

[Carni]

52. I cannot muster any sympathy for these fools

My family has been through HELL since the A-hole took office

The main difference however is that I worked relentlessly to keep bush out of office in the first place.

When bush was selected I thought oh shit here we go...I had no idea however that he could affect me personally in such a radical manner in four years time.

I haven't been afforded the luxury of being able to break down and take a pill like your whiny neighbor.

Weak, stupid, deluded people like her are taking the rest of us down with them and I am REALLY sick of it!

I cannot tell you how angry those types of people make me and I notice she's right there with her hand out at the potlucks and whatever else! Arrrrggghhhh!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

54. I can't say I haven't felt the same towards her

I can't say I haven't.

Sometimes I want to shake her.

[Carni]

57. I really think this is a weakness of charachter trait with these types

They have no conviction, or courage and they want to be coddled and told what to do--that's why the BS terror line works so well on these types of people.

It's no coincidence that most of the biggest bushites are chicken hawks!

Forgive the rant but they piss me off!

[Malva Zebrina]

56. I would not waste my time on them

anyone who cannot see the deaths of thousands of their own troops, and some 20 to 30 thousands of the deaths of Iraqi innocents, including children and pregnant women all done on lies, are not worth the energy. If they see that as justified, then let them be. There is nothing you can do.

There will come a time when they will hit bottom. It is make or break at that point. Perhaps one of their children will be called to fight in a slaugter of innocents, and never ever be the same again. Whatever is ahead for them, let them handle it. It is not your problem. If they ask you for help that is different.



It is not your problem. You cannot help. You must allow them to come to it on their own, as adults who make their own decisions.

[Vox_Reason]

58. This is amazing

How can these people, who have been so negatively affected during *'s term, even remotely consider voting for him?

Is it racism? Homophobia? Xenophobia? Influence of Rovian fear tactics?

Why won't they face the reality that slaps them in the face on a daily basis right where it affects them the most?? I simply cannot comprehend their attitude--and there are millions more across this country just like them. People voting against their own interests because * "is putting those sodomites in their place", "is killing lots of ragheads", "is cutting taxes for my boss's boss's boss", etc.

God help their poor kids.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

59. HOnestly I think their reasons

are a combo of this:

1. Habit and feeling like they must vote this way because their parents did.

2. MASSIVE denial when it comes to the connection between their lives and this administration; though they have readily admitted their lives were WONDERFUL during the Clinton years, they don't give Clinton or his policies ANY credit for it.

3. While they do have FAIRLY progressive social positions, they are, basically, racist. She once told me it doesn't bother her that Iraqis are being killed because "they killed us on 9/11." Explaining to her that the Iraqis did NOTHING to us only elicits a shrug and a flippant comment about the nature of war (as if she'd know).

4. Extreme fear-mongering must work on people like this. It seems to have done a number on their heads even more they already had wrong with their....reasoning processes, shall we say.

[DeepModem Mom]

60. kick