Is there an unspoken affinity between Dean & Edwards supporters?

[Cuban_Liberal]

I've noticed in both polls and general discussion threads here that there is a much lower level of animosity between the Dean and Edwards camps than is the case between the Dean and everybody-else camps.

Am I seeing something that isn't there? I'll admit that I'd be happy if I were right, because as things stand today, Edwards is my #1 choice and Dean is my #2 choice (although I remain uncommitted).

[leyton]

1. I've heard

that Edwards and Dean themselves treated one another very pleasantly in one of the more recent Iowa debates. I only saw them interact once, where Edwards lobbed Dean an easy question. (Although I think Dean may have recently aired an attack ad... not sure if this is true.)

I have found that many Clark supporters are very kind about Edwards, haven't noticed so much about Dean either way.

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. They were nice to each other in the debate.

I don't want to open old wounds, so please don't 'start in', y'all, but I can almost hear Sen. Edwards telling Gov. Dean "Howard, I can make that Confederate flag thing work for you in the South, and here's how: first, you change the wording, but not the sentiment...".:)

[Maddy McCall]

4. only because Dean didn't consider Edwards a serious contender

as Edwards edges up in the polls, watch Dean bear his fangs, though.

[Cuban_Liberal]

6. This is primary politics.

Anyone would do the same, so won't hold that against him or anyone else.

[mitchum]

57. That's the answer right there, jchild

nothing more, nothing less

[kerry-is-my-prez]

23. The only one who's ticked Edwards off is Dean. 3 times: Confederate flag,

then remember when Dean had to send him a written letter of apology for claiming that Edwards wasn't telling the truth on Iraq. Then he also had to apologize to Edwards for saying that he was the only candidate who spoke about race - when Edwards speaks about it all the time.

[Maddy McCall]

3. There may be now, when Edwards ties or overtakes Dean in the polls

Dean supporters'fangs will come out.

[spooky3]

5. I think it's because

Edwards is #2 on a lot of people's lists. Maybe it's also because Edwards & Dean have similar positions on many issues, with probably the biggest difference being the initial war positions.

A third possible reason (and of course all of these are strictly IMHO) it's because both of them come across as believing every single thing they say and stick to their guns until shown that they are wrong, even though their styles are different. They're not alone in this obviously, but I think some people are drawn to candidates who seem sincere, and so it might make sense that people who like one would like the other.

I'm also in the Edwards #1, Dean #2, and strongly ABB camp.

[Cuban_Liberal]

8. I am also ABB.

I believe you may be right: both arte stubborn in their beliefs, until proven wrong by convincing evidence. seeing a candidate having a 'spine' is an attractive quality, to many of us.

:hi:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

25. Edwards is somewhat Conservative on the isues - so is Dean

n/t

[bearfartinthewoods]

35. how does one earn a 97 from bothe the AFL-CIO and NAACP

while being somewhat conservative.

and while i'm at it, why would a somehat conservative person be the senator that most often voted against bush?

i'm interested in hearing what positions he holds that you find somewhat conservative.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

38. Because he still thinks the IWR was ok and from the candidates graph -

He and Gep were the furthest to the right (other than Lieberman). Truthfully, out of all of the candidates he is the one I know the least about and no-one ever speaks about him much here - so I'm certainly open to the suggestion that I may have the wrong impression. Fill us in - I'm open. Right now he's my number 4 or 5 but he could move up...

[AP]

7. Dean doestn't want to attack Edwards in public. That's why he had CMB

do it in the debates.

I think it's transparent. He needs Edwards and Kerry to keep Clark from beating him in NH.

[Cuban_Liberal]

9. Things are rarely as simple or straightforward as they appear.

That's IMO, any way, but it maybe a cop's cynicism, too. :shrug:

[AP]

12. I don't think mine is the straightforwards interepretaion.

To me, the one your implying is the straightforwards, superficial one: they like each other so their support should be trasferable.

Philosophically, they might be the most polar opposites running.

I think the strategy - the truth about his - isn't straightforward, and it certainly isn't that they have an affinity.

It has to do with the Clark strategy. It has to do with Dean thinking Edwards wouldn't reach 15% in IA. And it has to do with Dean trying to soften his angry edges.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

28. Edwards personality is 180 degrees away from Deans. Clark is more similar.

n/t

[Leilani]

37. Agree completely

And if Edwards finishes well in Iowa, watch out.

I think Edwards has run an exceptionally classy campaign. He may not win, but he'll be the most popular at the end of this thing.

Clark supporter; would support Edwards enthusiastically!

[shance]

10. Dean is my first choice, Edwards my second.

I love Kucinich and Clark, but am concerned about a few things including for Clark, and his support the School of the Americas (what is THAT about?), and Kucinichs overall need for delegates and congressional endorsements. And they both opted to go with matching funds, which is to me a kiss of death in this election and something I concerned for Edwards on as well.

Overall the big picture for me has Dean and Edwards together, who I think would be a a fantastic team, good looking as all get out*** and hard as heck to beat.

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. They would LOOK GOOD on a button or poster, wouldn't they?

Both young, handsome guys. I'm not that shallow, but a LOT of Americans are. :P

[AP]

13. What would they do about taxes?

They're too different.

[Cuban_Liberal]

14. Piece of cake.

They'd compromise, I'm sure. Both of them are far too realistic about the REAL threat to this country (a 2nd Bush term) to not 'split the difference', IMO. :)

[maddezmom]

15. are you talking about one of them being a VP? n/t

[Cuban_Liberal]

16. Either/or.

A Dean/Edwards ticket, or an Edwards/Dean ticket, yes.

[AP]

17. Their philosophies are almost polar opposites. You couldn't find two

dems who disagree more.

Furthermore, if Dean picked Edwards it would be like an admission that everything he has stood for is wrong.

Dean cannot pick someone who voted for the IWR and be taken seriously now.

He has boxed himself into a corner.

If he were nom'd and asked Edwards, it would be good, but he'd only lose by a little less than he'd lose without him.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

29. Doesn't Edwards still say the war in Iraq is a good idea?

If Dean goes for Edwards - he would be showing himself to be a complete hypocrite.

[AP]

36. exactly.

Like I said, Dean has boxed himself into a corner.

[beaconess]

43. Exactly

Unlike the others, Dean has been very vociferous about everyone who took stands different from his, displaying everything just short of contempt for them It's not unusual for candidates to backpedal in their choice of running mate, but Dean made his opposition to things that John Edwards voted for a sacred gravamen of his campaign. He would be hard-pressed to explain to his faithful why he betrayed these principles for purely pragmatic political purposes.

[AP]

44. The difference between the two on race is actually very dramatic too.

Edwards has framed his ideas about race around the principle that every American should be able to achieve their fullest potential and that racism is a barrier to that. He says that the valedictorian of his class wouldn't have been there if not for AA. That's a simple, yet powerful anecdote.

Meanwhile, Dean ponders over whether race should be considered in, and I hesitate to say, "giving people a chance." I hesitate because, unlike Edwards, whose attitudes toward race are much more clear, I'm not even sure what Dean thinks about race, short of the fact that the UofM case gave him a chance to complain about Bush's use of the term "quota." If it had not given him a chance to express anger at Bush, I wonder what he would have said.

[AP]

18. With platitudes like that, by the way,

I'm going to guess that you play the good cop and not the bad cop in the interrogation room? :)

[Cuban_Liberal]

19. I'm familiar with the technique, yes.

:evilgrin:

[beaconess]

42. I can't imagine Dean and Edwards on the same ticket

particularly given Dean's criticisms of members who voted for IWR and the Patriot Act. How would he reconcile his disdain for "cockraches" with making one of them his number two, the person who would become president if anything happened to him?

[Jerseycoa]

34. Edwards and who?

But, seriously, Edwards is no sucker and won't fall for this line.

[Raya]

20. Dean Attacks Kerry, Who Fiercely OPPOSED THE WAR. But gives Edwards a Pass

I think there is a deal in the making and we have seen that Dean/Trippi is the master of those types of deals.

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. sen. Kerry didn't 'fiercly oppose the war'.

Sen. Byrd did, and Sen. Durbin did, Sen. Graham did and Congressman Kucinich did, e.g., but Sen. Kerry most definitely did not, or he would not have voted for the IWR.

[maddezmom]

22. ya think Edwards would go for something like that?

I don't...he's rising in the polls in Iowa and NH.

[Cuban_Liberal]

26. All depends on how it shakes out.

He could catch fire, and he could also fizzle out. If his campaign hits the ditch, I think he'd snap up a VP offer, yes.

[maddezmom]

30. guess it all depends

but if Edwards was watching the interview Dean did on Iowa public TV he'd really have to swallow his pride. Guess we'll have to wait and see how it all "shakes out".

[Cuban_Liberal]

31. 'Kennedy/Johnson' in 1960, e.g..

They both choked down their gorge long enough to run a winning campaign, so it can be done. :)

[AP]

45. And that might have been a mistake. Some think LBJ might

have had something to do with JFK's assassination.

And even if you don't, it's stll clear that JFK was the reason the ticket won. Anyone could have been on that ticket. In fact, it was probably the ONLY way LBJ was ever going to be president (via VP and assassination).

[Jerseycoa]

53. I missed this, what happened?

interview Dean did on Iowa public TV

[maddezmom]

56. check it out on CSPAN

from watching that you'd think Dean had no respect for Edwards. It was Iowa public tv...hope it helps.

[TLM]

27. No Kerry Fiercely OPPOSED getting UN support for Iraq....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/25/opinion/lynch/main541905.shtml

Kerry's campaign manager, Jim Jordan, snapped at Dean's insistence on getting U.N. backing (a position supported by three-quarters of Democrats and 53 percent of Independents). "Gov. Dean, in effect, seems to be giving the U.N. veto power over national security decisions of the United States. That's an extraordinary proposition, one never endorsed by any U.S. president or serious candidate for the presidency," he told the Associated Press' Ron Fournier.

[TLM]

24. Edwards and Dean are very much alike....

Both in the direction of their policy and their ideals.

Edwards supported the IWR so he takes a hit for that with a lot of folks, but he's not trying to run as a war hawk like Kerry and Clark and Lieberman. Rather Edwards, like Dean and Kucinich, is focused more on core base issues like labor.

So Edwards f-ed up but he did not dwell on it... he isn't being a jerk and acting like these other guys who voted for the war are acting.

I think a lot of Dean folks like Edwards for the VP slot.

[AP]

46. How are Dean and Edwars similar?

I really can't think of anything significant. Dean isn't even STEALING Edwards's ideas (which some of the other candidates have done).

[TLM]

47. In a lot of ways they are very similar...

Both are running different type of campaigns that are directed not only at Bush but at the flawed system and the fact our own party has let down the dem base.

Both are focusing more on the clasic base of the democratic party than the swing voters.

They both are focusing more on domestic issues than war and fear and defense.

Both are all about creating jobs by investing in infrastructure, which in turn will fuel growth and economic development.


Both have strong ideas for supporting small businesses and focusing tax resources and tax benfits on companies that keep jobs here or bring jobs to parts of america that need them.


Dean and Edwards are very much alike.

I think a Dean/Edwards ticket would be a great ticket...

[beaconess]

48. Yeah, if it weren't for Edwards votes on IWR, Patriot and NCLB,

they would be just alike.

Wait a minute, Dean has been telling us that those votes are the ones that people should use to decide whether a candidate is fit to be president, whether they truly represent the Democratic wing of the Demoacratic Party. You know, the vote that separates the cockroaches from the real Democrats.

I guess he didn't mean it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

50. They are the votes that people should consider.

Those are differences. The question was about similarities, I thought.

:shrug:

[AP]

52. The differences are too big and the similaries are imaginary.

That's the point.

[AP]

49. Disagree, strongly.

- Edwards isn't running against Bush. Edwards is making an argument that works agianst ANY Republican. In fact Edwards isn't running against anything. He's running for some very important things.

- Edwards not appealing to swing voters? He just said on CSPAN that he's meeting lots of Republicans who tell him they've re-reg'd Dem to vote for him in the caucus. That's the, uhm, definition of swing. Meanwhile Dean is polarizing left and right, and he's polarizing Dems.

- Dean focus on domestic issues? He started on health care and it got him nowhere. So Dean decided to run on Iraq. And he's going to ride on Iraq into the sunset.

- Dean is exploiting fear and anger. He calls it hope, but if he wants to know about hope, he should look at Edwards's campaign, which is run on hope.

- Need I go on? I couldn't pick two candidates more different.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

32. "I believe Saddam was a threat; Supported invasion because of WMD"

http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/John_Edwards_War_+_Peace.htm

Leadership is standing up for what you believe in. I believe Saddam was a threat; I voted for the congressional resolution.

-snip-

John Edwards on War & Peace

Q: How do you reconcile Saddam's capture with continued fear of terrorism?
EDWARDS: The trial of Saddam Hussein is going to reveal the atrocities that he's been engaged in and some of the incredible conduct that's occurred in Iraq during the time of his reign.
Source: Debate at Pace University in Lower Manhattan Sep 25, 2003


Supported Iraq invasion because of WMD threat
Edwards has not hesitated to support decisive American action, alone if necessary, to address imminent threats to our national security. He supports President Bush's efforts to address the looming danger of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. However, he sharply objects to the Bush administration's handling of our broader foreign policy, which he says projects "arrogance without purpose," instead of the "purpose without arrogance" promised in the President's inaugural address.
Source: Campaign website, johnedwards2004.com, "Key Issues" Jul 17, 2003

[arewethereyet]

33. I don't believe so

Edwards is interested in talking about Edwards. That the others prefer to attack Dean is their prerogative. This may be what you sense.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

39. People need to fill us in more about Edwards. We never hear much about him

I'd like to hear about his stance on the environment, criminal justice (was he a defense attorney or a corporate attorney?), taxes, etc.

[arewethereyet]

40. while I could answer hit & miss, check his webpage, all the details

I'm not trying to be evasive but rather complete.

I mean I know he cares about the enviromnent but as that is not a real hot button for me I'm not up on it.

He was a personal injury guy, fought against unfair medical issues but again thats not terribly complete.

Do yourself a favor, I think you'll like what you see...

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/home.asp

[kerry-is-my-prez]

51. (We need) to go beyond anger and offer a positive vision for America."

I like that!

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/home.asp
Edwards Lays Out Defense of Optimism
"We're all angry at what George W. Bush has done to our country, our values, and our way of life. We all know what we're running against-now we need to tell the American people what kind of future we're running toward."

At the Commonwealth Club in California, Senator Edwards said the only way to reach voters in 2004 is to go beyond anger and offer a positive vision for America: to not shy from a values debate, but to embrace the values that Americans hold dear.

[DaisyUCSB]

41. I don't think so, more like Edwards and Kerry

I think Dean hasn't really done much to endear himself to others when he says things like he's the only real democrat.

I still haven't ruled out supporting him, but he made the wrong move going back to the mostly negative to repair his poll slippage

Also, my boyfriend, and others I know who have or are supporting Edwards, do so in a big way because they relate to his economic struggles growing up, and they hold that against people like Dean and Bush

[Samantha]

54. I cannot answer your literal question since I am uncommitted

but I will tell you this. I have been thinking in the last few days I wish Dean and Edwards would team up. I have said all along I would not vote for any Dem who voted yes to the Iraq resolution, but I have other reasons for not wanting to support Kerry. Gephardt knocked the wind out of my sails when I saw him standing in the Rose Garden with Bush supporting the war -- I felt he really betrayed the Democratic party. I don't despise the man; I just don't respect him.

I have soften my stance against Edwards because of an inadvertent remark he uttered during one of the debates. There are those on this stage, he said, who had hopes for George Bush* after the disputed election, but I NEVER had any hope he would make a good president (words to that effect). For a moment, I thought he held as much contempt for Bush* as do I. He's moved somewhat away from his initial support of the war by saying, even as recently as today, it's clear we must change our approach.

With the Iowa caucus appearing to be heading to a dead heat and the Democratic party totally split between the Gore element and the Clinton element, the only way I see of uniting it before the general election, in order to beat Bush* in a landslide vote that cannot be stolen, is to somehow unite the anti-war with the pro-war elements of voters. Dean-Edwards would do exactly that.

The Democratic ticket with that combination would have these elements: extremely successful domestic policy experience (Dean elected five times Governor); combative, fight, fight, fight drive (Dean's nature; Edwards trial experience); Northern (Eastern) and Southern appeal; molding of the anti-war to the pro-war components of our party. Sounds like a win-win to me.

[NewHampster]

55. Yes

Most definately.