Et tu, Kerry?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

As one of your biggest supporters on this board, I'm feeling the sting of betrayal at this moment. They called you a flip-flopper, I said you weren't. Last night you said you would keep your word and make every vote count, but before all the news reports of voter fraud even HIT the airwaves, you are conceding. You DID flip flop.

People in Arizona reported being chased out of lines they had waited in for hours at poll closing time. Boatloads of untouched ballots in Ohio where people invested their UNFUCKING PAID time off will never get counted.

Please don't go on TV with some fluffy diplomatic speech. Fuck diplomacy and don't tell me you did it for the good of the country. Your banking industry buddies called you and said, "the market's up, please don't fuck with our profits." and you obliged.

The Dem party called you and said,"Look on the bright side, Dascle's gone and you can be senate leader." You counted your chickens and fucking SOLD ME OUT. My state delivered for you big time. Et tu, Kerry?

[Amaya]

1. I feel the same way

I'm gonna be sick. Just sick.

[Ms.Victory]

2. I,m really

disappointed also. This is a nightmare.

[ShaneGR]

3. Being from Ohio, I can say without a doubt in my mind.... he had no choice

The election was over. 140K was far too many to make up in a provincial ballot count. First off, they needed 90% of the provincial ballots to count. Then he needed 87% of those ballots to be cast in his name.

Wasn't going to happen. Drawing it out would have doomed us worse than we're doomed right now.

I'm as unhappy about this as you are, but it was over. We needed Cuyahoga County by 200,000 votes, and we didn't get it.

[sybylla]

55. Oh, no, he did have a choice

This wasn't about winning or losing. It was about how the god damned game was played. Bailing now means the fight against the pigs who disenfranchized voters, smiling all the while they pretended to register voters, against the bbv industry who promised Bush electoral votes, against corrupt politicians who ethnically cleansed voter rolls.

Don't come in here and tell me he had no choice. Tell me what damage would have been done by waiting 10 days for fuck's sake. The chimp's in charge. How on earth could 10 days have possibly made that any worse?

[Chili]

I think he conceded not only to save the country...

...from another 2000 debacle, but to save the party. I don't know if he can. But I think that's why he did.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. SAVE THE PARTY??? I don't think for a minute the vast majority

would have stood with him. This party has watched moderate Republicans fall in line with EXTREMIST policies. Our future is now in the hands NOT of OUR party, but of those moderate Republicans.

The ONLY way I see out is to change my party affiliation to Republican and move to Alabama along with a million other liberals.

[Paxdora]

85. What some would call extremism

is another's IDEALISM.

Think about it....have the Rethugs been at all pragmatic or bi-partisan since Clinton took office? Or have they been fighting tooth & claw (and BIG bucks) to ram their ideals (what WE call extremes) down the whole country's throat?

[tavalon]

36. Well,

he isn't thinking very well then. His party will die because of this.

[blondeatlast]

49. The PARTY failed him. Friendly PACS were wasted.

The campign was framed by the opposition.

I'm a yellow-dog, and I'm STEAMING at the DNC.

[sybylla]

57. Save the country?

How the fuck more divided could we get? How is conceding going to make it all better?

And as far as the party is concerned, with the pukes in charge of all four branches of government, there had better be some big fucking changes in the Democratic "party".

[Z_I_Peevey]

4. I have nothing but contempt for anyone

who would in any way legitimize these Nazis.

[depakid]

5. Understood- my heart's broken too

I guess I can blame it on IOWA- but that wouldn't do any good.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. God, Teena, I never really wanted to see you support my fears.

I only thought I did. :cry:

[mzmolly]

8. Kerry fought like hell for months, he realizes that we lost.

I don't hold that against him NSMA.

My heart breaks for my country, and for the world, but John Kerry is not to blame for the 3.5 million more votes Bush got.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. All of California is not yet counted. That popular vote is a fucking myth

Some of the densest areas still being counted across the nation are in Dem areas, all votes are not yet counted. When all votes are counted, Bush will not lead by 3.5 million

[ScreamingMeemie]

12. The county that houses Detroit and Dearborn (arab pop.) have not

been added to Michigan's totals yet either.

[mzmolly]

17. I think were grasping at straws. The margin is still huge.

Regardless, and I don't think fraud can explain the huge discrepancy.

I could be wrong and I'm certain conspiracy theorys will abound for years. My fear is that we'll all be fighting some great perceived conspiracy while they keep winning elections.

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. THE margin is bullshit. Kerry won Detroit with 90% of the vote, and it's

not showing up. Hello?

[Cheswick2.0]

18. the party lost because they did not effectively challenge voter

fraud and disenfranchisment. Diebold won this election and our party let them do it while they stood by almost silently.

[mzmolly]

23. I wish I thought that they could pull off a fraud this massive, I simply

don't believe it.

[Cheswick2.0]

27. the only states in which the exit polls were wrong are Fl and Oh

Diebold.

[Paxdora]

67. Are you still ASLEEP???

"John Kerry is not to blame for the 3.5 million more votes Bush got"

Bush did not GET 3.5 million votes legitimately, THEY WERE STOLEN!

Weep all you want for this country, but neither you nor this country deserves any fucking pity from me when it doesn't have the guts, the brains or the WILL to fight outright THEFT and "legalized" privatization of OUR VOTE TABULATION! As far as I'm concerned, both you and Kerry aren't worthy of the COURAGE of this nation's feisty founders.

I blame people like YOU and KERRY for letting this nation dissolve into a pool of slime!

[Misunderestimator]

9. How fucking ironic that seconds after you called to beg him not to concede

that's just what he did.

[BurtWorm]

13. Are you suggesting that he was waiting for NSMA to beg him

not to concede?! That bastid! ;)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. yeah right...he cares about what I think

[BurtWorm]

20. I feel for you, NSMA.

It's fucking hard to be a Democrat. :cry:

[democrat_patriot]

11. I am SO PISSED.

I will listen to his speech.

And I will be more pissed, as he asks us to 'heal the divisions'.

You mean like the SBVT's? The "Kerry is a communist traitor?"

Like Halliburton, Enron? WMD's? Patriot Act?

Could you not wait 1 fucking day? We worked our asses off. We ask for 1 day to count some votes. "The math wasn't there". Fuck you too.

Can you question the BBV? Votes in Wyoming that came out MORE THAN THE POPULATION?

Will you give us anything? Or will it be "America will be great nwo blah blah blah"

You are unleashing Bush with NOTHING TO LOSE.

You said you had our back. Thanks.

[wellstone_democrat]

87. Yeah, what democrat_patriot said

As far as I'm concerned you people join the other filth in this country in wanting to shoot down my son---my gay son---in the street like a dog.
I played "good of the country" in 2000. No more. Bush and his filthy followers have been unleashed and

the hell with you all. When they do to him or some other mother's son or daughter what they did to Matthew Shepard because they now have free popular support to do it----it will be on your head.

[InvisibleTouch]

15. I can't believe the attacks on Kerry! Shame on you.

Everybody loves him until he has the election stolen from him, and then it's his fault?? Then everyone's in line to stab him in the back? I'm disgusted beyond words. Some loyalty we're showing around here! Loyalty is the most important quality anyone can have, and given what I'm seeing around here, I wouldn't want to claim some of you as friends. Kerry didn't betray us. He didn't let us down. He did everything right that could possibly have been done right. How do you think he feels this morning? He needs our support and encouragement now more than ever.

Direct your anger where it belongs - at the scumbags who have infiltrated every position of power for the last 20 years, to be in place now to make a few tweaks here and there, lose a few (thousand) ballots here and there, disqualify a few (thousand) voters here and there ... you get the drift.

If we turn on each other, this really is the end of the Democratic party.

[mzmolly]

19. Agreed. And if we focus on the wrong reason why we lost, we'll be

hard pressed to win in 08.

[Cheswick2.0]

26. no it is the salvation of the democratic party

We can not win ever again if we refuse to look at the creeping facism we are losing to. Kerry needed to allow us time to fight it.

[Kahuna]

I agree. He did his best. It's impossible to fight a 4 million vote

advantage and look credible.

[Contrary1]

58. What's credibility got to do with it?

Look who has been running this country into the ground
for four years, and gets another four year lease.

Credible has never been a word that comes to mind when
I look at this administration.

[Kahuna]

28. I agree. He did his best. It's impossible to fight a 4 million vote

advantage and look credible.

[Paxdora]

68. "Looks" must be real important in your book...

I'm more interested in seeing the REAL DEAL, like exposing all the artifice and smoke& mirrors that deceive the majority of lazy-minded human beings. The so-called ADVANTAGE was pure Rethug concoction and rigging, and you ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. Republicans stand on principle and fight even if they are wrong

That'w why nationally we get our ass handed to us by them every mother fucking time.

Last night John Edwards said WE KEEP OUR WORD. This morning they are breaking that promise. Equivocate THAT for me.

[Misunderestimator]

30. When something is stolen from me, I don't just back off and say

"Keep it." The LOYALTY from us would be helping him uncover the fraud... helping him protest the crime... helping him count the votes. Loyalty for giving up so soon?

[tavalon]

39. I decline your shame

I'm angry because he didn't wait for us to mount the attack on Diebold. I'm angry because he didn't wait for the protests. It was stolen but he didn't give us the time we needed. The only thing we needed from him was to not roll. And he rolled. In record time.

Even Gore didn't roll this fast.

[Misunderestimator]

40. Hear hear

[Uzybone]

48. you can still attack diebold

you can still protest. Why does kerry conceeding affect that? Democrats like to whine too much, stop blaming Kerry. Fight on your own.

[Paxdora]

62. Damn right, he "rolled"...

but he was never any "hero" in my eyes to begin with. He was just ABB, slightly better than a bologna sandwich, the Democratic Party's "pick of the litter"! Right from the first debate, I could see he was no bulldog, no kind of nitty-gritty fighter - he had so many opportunities to go for the jugular - but I believe now that he was just as manipulated by the party "machinery" as was Bush (just a lot more articulate)!

[smirkymonkey]

76. That's it in a nutshell.

I completely agree with you. Unless he's got another trick up his sleeve, and I will give him until the inauguration to pull it off, he's going to have a hard time redeeming himself as far as I am concern.

[bloom]

45. actually he looked awfully damn happy on CNN today...eom

[Paxdora]

52. I hope it IS the end of the Democratic party!

They aren't worth a dime anymore for their assinine compromising, rolling over when nudged, and not FIGHTING LIKE HELL FOR THE IDEALS THAT CREATED THIS NATION! Pragmatic suckers, every last one of them (except for the likes of Robert Byrd & Howard Dean)!

[smirkymonkey]

75. It's not so much that we hate Kerry. And I agree that the elections

were stolen. What I feel for Kerry right now is not even a fraction of the hate and anger I feel for the right-wing in this country. I don't place the responsibility for his loss squarely on his shoulders either.

What does have me disgusted is the way in which he rolled over, how he has let so many of us down who fought for him, believed in him and supported him through it all. I will give him a few more weeks to show us what he's made of, but if he just walks away quietly I will never forgive him.

[Cheswick2.0]

16. I am sorry you finally get it.... I worked my heart out for Kerry

this last month. I thought he would keep his word. I am as sad as you are.

[Armstead2]

22. I've been a Kerry critic, but hoped I'd be proven wrong

Unfortunately, I wasn't.

I don't want to hear some "Kumbya" concession speech from Kerry or the otehr centrist Democrats. None of the "bipartisanship" crap they spouted off after 2000.

Half of the country is still mad as hell and doesn't want to take it anymore..

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. I wish we were organized enough to shut this country down

but we're not. THEY ARE.

[Sugarbleus]

37. Hoo boy, I agree with that!

Heard people calling in on C-span urging a "can't we all just get along" meme

Other DEMS called also and said we need to extend the Olive branch and reunite this country.

I, on the other hand, wrote some flaming material via their E ..just blasting away with all that unity crap.

If Bush and republicans wanted Unity, they would have stopped division among us LOOOOOOOOOOOONG before now. SCREW the that BS

I'm NOT into bi-partisanship because it always gets us Dems into deeper hot water.

Fucking politicians..I knew it all along...NONE of them can be trusted to at LEAST LISTEN to the PEOPLE's wishes.

I hope Kerry and all the punks in Congress enjoy THEIR subsidized healthcare while my subsidized healthcare gets cut off!! :nuke:

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

24. I can't and won't watch or listen to his speech.

I just won't. And can't. And I won't even LOOK at the face of that evil bastard *.

[Generator]

42. I'm with you

I'm absolutely stunned. I'm sure I've felt this way before but I'm not sure when. I'm not crying. I'm in shock. Sure, anger and depression, but mostly:WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?

As I said in my post, I awoke to a nightmare.

My mind simply doesn't believe this reality. It's so weird.

[mtnsnake]

59. I can't bear him for a second. A few days ago my battery in the tv remote

went dead when Chimpy came on, and when I went to flip the channel it wouldn't flip. I jumped off the couch and ran to the TV to flip the channel manually and knocked over my coffee table on the way, spilling my fucking TV dinner all over the floor and almost gave my cat a heart attack. ARGGHHH!!!

I haven't looked at that rat-ass face in almost a year and I don't intend to start anytime too soon.

[Bugaboo]

31. not fair

I feel that Kerry fought hard. And that he fought with his heart. I also feel he made some mistakes.

It doesn't matter because he fought for all of us.

The bottom line is that everyone underestimated the power of the social issues. People turned out to vote against gays and for the unborn. It's much more complex than "Kerry failed us". I give the man props for going through one of the most grueling physical and emotional experiences out there.

[Paxdora]

71. Kerry gave his heart when he should have used his brain...

and he didn't "fight", he just went through all the right motions, just like a programmed ham sandwich (ABB). I didn't underestimate the power of the social issues, but Kerry obviously did, else he wouldn't be rolling over now like a lap dog. The freaking Dem Party failed America by "selecting" Lurch Kerry to oppose the Bush Machine (and its Monkey Robot preznit).

You go ahead and give him "props"...I won't. I don't appreciate PROPS in any shape or form. I prefer blood & guts realism - and Kerry did his part, followed the script, and did what his handlers advised him to do. A REAL LEADER...NOT!!!

[Ripley]

32. Ouch, I hadn't even thought about the senate leader thing.

Now I'm pissed and I feel BETRAYED TOO.

[ibegurpard]

33. What do you expect him to do?

How do you think he's going to convince the millions of people in this country like my brother who think it's all just politics as usual that fascists have hijacked our government? If he doesn't believe his own brother, why is he going to believe John Kerry? 3,000,000 plus of the votes more for Bush? I don't believe it. But even if there's fraud how are you going to jolt the complacent people into questioning? We're looking at ground-up infrastructure building to be able to match the propaganda machine the fundies and Republicans have in place. It's going to take years and the deck is stacked against us.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. don't make me get pragmatic now...I'm pissed

In my heart I know you are probably right...I am just so pissed that there wasn't a wait of a couple days for ALL of the fraud and vote suppression evidence to surface.

[bloom]

53. are they announcing 15,000,000 - 20,000,000 less votes cast

than what people thought were cast yesterday because of the high voter turnout?

They also don't have the military and all of the absentee ballots. And the military people are not all that crazy with Bush* right now.

I don't think it is so much to ask that the votes be counted.

[Borgnine]

34. So this time he doesn't turn the boat around.

He just runs away while we're getting shot at in the water.

[Sugarbleus]

43. Ouch...that is a stinging indictment....but I feel the same

way. I'm going back to my bed, pull the covers over my head and stay there for a few days.

I'll be back to fight or kick repug ass when I'm refreshed.:hangover:

[seaglass]

38. I have so much respect for you NSMA and your

never-ending advocacy for JK, thanks for that.

I'm so sorry you feel this way. I don't even know how I feel right now, angry, disgusted, heartbroken. I don't know what to do.

But I still trust JK. I especially trust his thinking, that he does look at all sides before coming to a decision. There haven't been too many decisions he's made that I can't at least understand even if I don't agree with him.

I trust that he's making the right decision.

[tavalon]

41. I don't trust that he's making the right decision n/t

[Paxdora]

60. Me neither!

He's a quitter, dammit, and worse than Gore, because this contest is even more important. HE PROMISED TO WAIT UNTIL ALL VOTES WERE COUNTED!
I want to know this...WHO got to him, and how????

[seaglass]

61. Clearly you were never a supporter so your judgment

is meaningless to me.

[Paxdora]

72. Not a supporter?

I voted for him! I really hoped he would be a CHALLENGER!

So I find out he's just another "roller", and you want me to appreciate him??

Sorry...I have faith in mythology anymore...I call it like I see it!

[seaglass]

83. Right. I read your message below. n/t

[smirkymonkey]

84. I have been a staunch supporter of Kerry since the BEGINNING!

And I feel the same way! He wimped out much to soon.

[smirkymonkey]

80. Unless his life or his family's lives were threatened, there is

no excuse. However, now that I think about it, I am not so sure that is too far fetched.

He'd better have a damn good excuse for rolling so fast and so willingly.

[Paxdora]

44. I have held my tongue too long about Kerry...

from the moment he was chosen by the Democratic party to go up against the Bush regime. I've always felt he was a loser and a quitter when the chips were down, just like Gore. He, quite frankly, isn't one of us "little people" who have nothing, really, to lose. The Democratic Party can only blame itself for losing over & over again when the best it can do is put up "compromise" candidates who don't truly represent the fighting spirit of American underdogs. Kerry was never the bulldog we liberals needed!

From now on, I'm a small "d" democrat who may as well join with the Greens - at least THEY are sticking to their guns about every issue that has meaning in my life. FUCK PRAGMATISM - it's a recipe for self-defeat when real democrats get conned into thinking they should hedge their bets.

The Rethuglikkkans stick to THEIR fascistic ideals, dammit, and THAT'S why the bastards have won the hearts & minds of this country's programmed, consumerist, religious-freaked robots. Karl Rove is the man who has always understood what makes Americans tick and trot, and the thug despots were wise to listen to that master of Machiavellian principles.

The days of compromise are long gone, and the Dems are still in la-la land. I am through with Fric or Frac politics, I want CHANGE, I want democratic IDEALS to come to the forefront of this country again. I don't think this will come to pass in what's left of my lifetime.

When are progressive liberals going to quit supporting a decadent political party that has NO MORE RELEVANCE in today's angry world?

[progressivebydesign]

46. My Mom says "strawman"...

She's thinking about the Skull & Bones connection.

[Lorien]

51. Me too.

[Andy_Stephenson]

54. I never stopped thinking about it...

God save us everyone.

[Pastiche423]

65. Skull & Bones + Diebold = Disaster for We, the People

What we needed was a fighter. (Any names ring a bell?)

What we got was a conceder.

[smirkymonkey]

81. Hmm... that's something I hadn't factored in, until you just said

it. Interesting.

[G_j]

47. deep down

I really don't think Kerry shares the real outrage and anger that mobilized so many people. It was Dean who got the attention of the passionate and Kucinich who spoke the truth about the war.
Kerry does not seem to share enough of our outrage to fight to the bitter end.
But he is who the Dems picked. :shrug:

[mtnsnake]

50. Im disappointed that Kerry's pleading with Bush to do something about

the divisiveness of this country in his concessionary phone call, according to CNN.

Fuck Chimpy. Let him deal with it on his own. He created this mess and if he's our president, I don't want to be united.

Here we go again, taking the high road, when it never works with these ultra right wing fanatics.

[Syrinx]

56. fucking skull and bones

[emc]

63. wrong candidate,

wrong candidate, wrong time, wrong place----every here that before???

[SarahB]

64. Taking one for his brothers.

[grasswire]

69. ouch, that one hurts to think about

But Alan Greenspan is Skull and Bones, too.

Ouch, ouch, ouch.

No more Yalies.

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. Could not agree more!

:-(

[johan helge]

70. Kerry is a hero. Stop trashing him.

You don't know why Kerry is conceding, which options he had to choose between. And this shit about his "banking industry buddies" - it's so stupid I could cry.

[Paxdora]

74. You are very naive

and TOO "bleeding heart" to see harsh reality and face the ugly truth.

[johan helge]

77. How do you know what the ugly truth is?

Kerrys has been fighting all his life against these scumbags - much harder than you or I ever will. Trashing him - or each other - is good only for the scumbags.

[smirkymonkey]

73. I have been a die-hard Kerry supporter from the beginning and

even I have to say that I feel nothing but contempt and disgust for him right now. For so many of us who believed in him, worked for him, fought for him, convinced our unwilling friends and families to vote for him and gave him all we had, he has betrayed us all.

I don't know what to do or think right now. I am so angry I just don't feel like there is anything LEFT worth fighting for.

[Paxdora]

79. Thank you for your honesty, smirkeymonkey,

and I understand completely what you are enduring right now. My hopes were dashed as well, in spite of all my nagging doubts and criticisms about his candidacy.

I can no longer remain a member of the Democratic Party if THIS is all the fight they have left in them. They are as good as dead. Our country needs some TRUE REPRESENTATION in a vital new COALITION of Progressives. As far as I am concerned, Kerry hasn't helped our BEST interest at all by admitting defeat without a blood & guts fight to expose THE TRUTH about the Republican's criminal activities and theft of what was left of our democratic process.

[zaron]

78. That is ridiculous...

What do you want him to do. We have NO power-not the presidency, the governorship of Ohio, the congress, the judiciary-it would end the same way and all that would happen is democrats would be made to look even worse by the Rethugs and the media.

The problem is the country. Their people are motivated by crazed longing for the rapture and they are convinced that Bush is a tough-hero sheriff who-our people are divided and turn on each other as soon as the going gets tough-young people didn't come out and I haven't seen minority numbers. The Hispanic vote went to Bush.

I saw Kerry out there-he did everything he could-I am devastated for him, all the volunteers and voters and for this country. The people are the problem-not the candidate.

[Paxdora]

82. The LEAST he could have done

was to KEEP HIS WORD - HIS PROMISE - that ALL & EVERY vote would be counted! He quit before that happened, and that is NO kind of leader or fighter in my eyes. But maybe he's good enough for you. Okay, you can keep him - and the Democratic Party - for all the good it will do for you.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

86. I'm disappointed too, but I don't feel betrayed

Kerry is right about dealing with the division, unfortunately, conceding defeat in this ONE battle is a first step.
It is more than Bush could EVER bring his own loathesome self to do I am sure.
Reid will be Senate leader by the way.

on edit: I am sorry you are feeling this way. The fight will continue and Kerry has not abandoned us.

[phish420]

88. I agree, but way more mad at the people than Kerry

We shouldnt have lost the popular vote like that...just shouldnt have happened. Im pissed that there are THAT many ignorant people in this country 58,884,611 of them to be exact. 58,884,611 people that feel it is more important to tell me how to live my life than it is to take care of their own damn useless life.
58,884,611 people who think it is better a young girl get a coathanger shoved inside her in a back alley than to get a safe and legal abortion
58,884,611 people who want to turn the clock back on civil and gay rights
58,884,611 people who want to shove their bogus fucking pretentious piece of shit religion down my throat
58,884,611 people that have complete contempt for our Constitution and legal system

[RadiDem]

89. I agree 100% - JK betrayed of us progressives who supported him

[NightTrain]

90. I'm with you, sister!

I was not, however, as, um, diplomatic about things as you were. Forsooth:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1312475&mesg_id=1312475

[IndianaGreen]

91. As a long -time ideological opponent of yours on this board

there is no point in beating yourself over the head. Let's take some time off to recharge our batteries, and then let's figure out how can we work together to get our country out of the clutches of the Xtian Taliban.

[Lars39]

92. I went to bed last night @ 1:00 am thinking it was going

to be taken to the courts, that it was going to be a long, vicious fight. I wasn't happy, but I thought we had a fighting chance.

I found out differently in the chemo room when I heard his concession speech, surrounded by Repubs. I had so many hopes and dreams pinned on this election... :(