What's worse Sacrificing Dem Values Or Loosing and Getting Conservative

[Quixote1818]

Values? I don't think this is an easy question. I don't know about you but I am sick of loosing and the country going further and further to the Right and the Right getting more and more crap through legislation. To me it's not worth taking a chance! If we run a moderate we are MUCH more likely to win than if we run a Progressive who probably would not get much passed anyway with a Republican run Congress.

I think we run a moderate but still fight for our values from all other areas. DNC, 527's and other Democrats who are in the spotlight. The country is not ready to move that quickly to the left with the presidency but we can start the movement then gain momentum. It's possible that the country will be ripe for someone more Progressive after four more years with Bush but lets wait and see before we throw another New England Liberal up again. Lets think with our heads not just with our hearts.

[Lizzie Borden]

1. I'd really rather not compromise

our values. As it was, I had to hold my nose when voting for Clinton.

[greenohio]

23. Then vote green...

if you don't care about winning then why not vote green. If you want to win Quixote1818 is right... we need a DLC New Democrat from the South or Midwest.

[eleonora]

2. What makes you say they'll run a moderate if we run one?

As far right as they've gone there's no return for them. I still think a liberal is needed. But a tough liberal who will answer to accusations loudly and with strenght. Kerry didn't defend himself when he should have.

edit: typo

[ArkDem]

3. Loosing

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Why Don't We Just Be Like The Ancient Israelites

at Masada who committed collective suicide rather than submit to Roman rule...

At least we would have the stones to die for our convictions rather than post meaningless notions on a bulletin board....

[ArkDem]

22. Good idea!

Self Immolations might play better on TV.

[Guaranteed]

27. Losing. LOSING. nt

[ArkDem]

28. Sarcasm

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Hmm this iis what we have been doing

for a while now, this is the DLC logic, tell me exactly what does it have to show for it, especially NOW?

(By the way we need to get rid of the machines)

[BOSSHOG]

5. Conservatives do not offer any values I would choose to

live my life by. I have every confidence that the trend toward the right will reverse itself and we will be saved by, drumroll, bush's ignorant poor white trash base located in the south. Think about it. They will turn around and consume the beast who no longer provides them welfare and food stamps regardless of how holy he proclaims to be.

And please teammate it is "lose" not "loose." Thanks.

[stubertmcfly]

6. i would rather...

...we lost every election from now to the end of eternity than join those right wing bastards. kerry's shift to warmonger was hard enoug to stomach.

[Cheswick2.0]

7. okay, which of your rights would you like to give up?

Or is it just women, minorities, poor people and gays whoes rights you want to give away so you can win?

[Trumanway]

8. I agree on first point,...

run a moderate that will attract a larger share of the total vote.

Liberals won't give up on a moderate Dem because they know they will be heard and get a fair shake, conservative Dems will know that a mod will defend the nation and make them safe as possible in freedom.

I think the GOP will fail to respond and lose with a overly rightist candidate.

[Radical Activist]

9. How about losing elections AND losing our values

that is what the party has been doing for the past decade. We have been running moderates. We have been running people afraid to stand up for what the Democratic Party stands for and we are losing elections as a result. More of the same won't work.

[AndyTiedye]

10. What is Worst is Running A Moderate and Losing Anyway

It doesn't matter who we run.
It doesn't matter how much we pander to the right.
As long as the Reich Wing owns the news and the voting machinez
We Will "Lose" Every Election.

[Liberal Gramma]

12. We lose with either of your alternatives.

Move to the right = lose what we stand for
Stay, fight, and lose = be dominated by conservatives.

I say we stay left and fight to the death.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Literally...

We can be like the Masada Democrats...

And commit collective suicide rather than submit to Republican rule...

[greenohio]

24. If you don't care about winning then vote green...

At least give the Democrats a chance to win by moving to the center.

[Fleurs du Mal]

14. No, afraid not

You don't sacrifice values in the face of adversity. This sounds a lot like giving up civil liberties to be "safe" from the big bad terrorists.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. That's A False Dichotomy...

Say the choice in 08 is Evan Bayh or Bill Frist...


I don't even have to think twice.....

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. If the choice is Bayh or Frist, I don't have to think twice either

I go third party. I won't vote for either of those neocon shitbags.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Hmmm

Evan Bayh


pro choice


pro affirmative action


pro gay rights


Bill Frist

anti choice

anti affirmative action

anti gay rights

But when you are leaving for that grand third party that gets less than one percent of the vote don't forget to lock the door on the way out.

Happy trails pardner...

[Crunchy Frog]

16. I think that our best bet at this point

is to run a fairly progressive candidate who is widely percieved as a "moderate", cough, Wes Clark, cough.

Surveys consistently show that the majority of Americans agree more with us on the issues. I don't see how abandoning the issues is going to make us more electable. The big problem is that we have difficulty communicating our issues effectively, and that people get hung up on the liberal label and then tune out everything else.

Let's remember that the Republicans did not get where they are today by abandoning their principles and becoming moderate.

I'm not sure that we gain anything by running a conservative Democrat. The Republican machine will still portray him as a baby eating Bible burner, while the more liberal base of the party will be much more likely to become completely alienated.

I don't think that we are going to see the kind of unity in the future that we had for this election.

As for the Republicans nominating a Moderate? Not going to happen. The extreme RW has an iron grip on the party, which they are now in the process of purging of the few remaining moderates.

I believe that Frist will be the most likely nominee for '08. A radical, but one that can speak in complete, coherent sentences, and project an aura of competent leadership.

We had better have someone to run against him who offers the voters a genuine choice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Are There Any Conservative Democrats Left?

And any that would be taken seriously at the presidential level?

[JVS]

17. I think the worst situation is where we both sacrifice values and lose

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. How Is Nominating A Moderate Sacrificing Our Values...

To me being a Democrat means having a concern for the little guy and making sure everybody's civil rights are protected...


As long as a Democratic candidate meets that threshhold he's fine with me....


Some folks in this thread are creating a false dichotomy....

[Justathought]

20. I think

we are all ignoring why this administration won the election. It has nothing to do with our principles but has everything to do with terrorism. How many times did the terrorist alert go up during this election process? How many of those alerts came to fruition? How many people voted out of fear of what the administration said would happen....you vote for Kerry and the U.S. will be attacked? How many said that it would be dangerous to change administrations during war?

It was not our principles that were attacked. It was fear as expressed and pounded into voters minds day after day by the Bush administration. Our principles are something to be proud of but we only lacked the weapon of putting America on alert status where they were afraid to vote differently for fear we would be attacked as propogated by the Bush administration.

[newyawker99]

26. Hi Justathought!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[iamjoy]

21. We Must Change Our Ammunition

if you'll pardon the martial analogies....
We do not need to "choose our battles" we must choose better weapons.

We gain nothing moving to the middle. Brad Carson was all but a DINO & he still lost in Oklahoma to a fanatic with an R behind his name.

Here are some examples of how to fight smarter without sacrificing any of our key principles

HOMOSEXUAL RIGHTS
No way should we abandon the rights of homosexuals to have all the priveledges of citizenship. But, we don't need to hammer people over the head with the issue and some people will never believe it is natural as opposed to a choice. So, it would be nice if some pro-Gay group ran ads showing truck drivers (male), accountants, farmers, etc. (professions you would not stereotypically think of attracting homosexuals) and then subtly work in that they are gay. The point, they are just like you and me - hardworking Americans.

ABORTION
"I would like to see the number of abortions reduced. The best way to do this is to offer viable alternatives for women and families. I will work diligantly to reduce abortions (through education, promoting adoption and offering true solutions so that no woman feels compelled to abort because of circumstances). But I will never sign a bill limiting any type of abortion if the bill does not have adequate protections for the health of the mother."

TAXES
"We are all born equal, but we are not all born into equal circumstances. Those who have more must help those who have less so that all Americans have equal opportunities. There is no excuse in this country of great wealth for any child to go to bed hungry"

ENVIRONMENT
"Protecting our environment is a moral imperative."

WAR/FOREIGN POLICY
"We all live in one large community. We will have differences of opinion with others. I'm not saying we should let our neighbors tell us how to live, but we should be considerate and respectful of them."

[FubarFly]

30. Yes, let's further demonize the word "progressive."

And blame progressives each time one of our brilliant triangulators loses.

Which is frequently.

Progressive values are American values.

To simplify. For starters:

War is bad and should be avoided if possible.
Every American should have the same basic rights.
A strong middle class equals a strong America.
Our freedoms, including the freedom of expression, are inviolable, and should not be trifled with lightly.

Now do you honestly believe freedom, justice, peace, and equality are losing issues? Really?

[Steely_Dan]

31. NEVER, NEVER...

...sacrifice our democratic principles. This would mean that the right has won...I would never compromise my liberal convictions for any victory.

-Paige

[Blue_Tires]

32. why is it that the RW

never has to think about moving to the center, it's only us?? (they move further right!!)