I'm sure Boxer will speak up against this outrage. Any others in the senate? Kerry seems to be taking a principled stance on unfit nominees lately.
Let me ask you about Alberto Gonzales, the president‘s counsel. He‘s up for—the president has put him up for attorney general. He‘s the man that laid out the guidelines, if you would call them guidelines, on torture of prisoners and the power of the presidency during the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you think he‘s fit for the job?
CLARK: No.
How can the American people have confidence in a man like Gonzales after what he‘s written for the president of the United States? He‘s basically said the Geneva Convention was irrelevant. He basically said that torture is something that‘s very limited, that you could be in terrible pain and that you still wouldn‘t be being tortured.
MATTHEWS: Yes. He said we could have cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of prisoners.
CLARK: And not have it be torture.
MATTHEWS: Right.
CLARK: And Mr. Gonzales has basically said the power of the presidency is unlimited and he can do anything he wants.
How can we feel confident as Americans that we‘re living under the rule of law when the attorney general has violated what we believe to be the law?
MATTHEWS: Well, let‘s just get this straight, so we don‘t sound like we‘re goody-two-shoes here. You‘re a military man. You‘ve commanded troops, many of them. You‘ve been in combat in Europe. What are the limits of interrogation, as you understand it to be?
CLARK: Geneva Convention, no question about it.
I mean, we would never have violated the Geneva Convention. You don‘t shoot prisoners. You don‘t do false—trick executions. You don‘t rough them up and beat them up.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Did we threaten to throw people out of helicopters in Vietnam?
CLARK: I have heard those rumors. I never saw it. And if it was ever done, I hope it was punished.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Did we hose people with hoses in their mouths until they talked?
CLARK: Not in any of my commands that I know of.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
CLARK: And I‘ll tell you this.
In 1999, when we had three Americans captured by the Serbs at the start of the Kosovo campaign, they were put on television and one of them had a big black eye and looked like he was beaten up. We were outraged.
MATTHEWS: Right.
CLARK: And...
MATTHEWS: So you don‘t think water-boarding, as it‘s called, where you basically threaten a guy with drowning, you make him think he‘s going to drown, is acceptable?
(CROSSTALK)
CLARK: Absolutely not.
MATTHEWS: So Gonzales is not your man.
CLARK: I think strict Geneva Convention, strict adherence to the law.
MATTHEWS: Thank you.
CLARK: We put that law in place to protect our soldiers.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: You can‘t officially do it anymore, but—you‘re retired. But do you think a lot of military men of your rank, flag rank, do you think that‘s a common view? McCaffrey certainly had it last night. Is this a general view you hear from military men?
CLARK: This is what we believe in.
We—look, we fought for the Geneva Convention. It was put in place to protect our soldiers, our values and our institutions.
MATTHEWS: Right.
CLARK: We can‘t win the war on terror if we give up what we stand for as the American people.
MATTHEWS: Would you testify against Gonzales on the Hill if they asked you?
CLARK: Well, I would testify against anybody who wrote those kinds of things. I don‘t know Gonzales personally. But how he could have written these documents is outrageous.
MATTHEWS: Strong words. Thank you, Wesley Clark.
You going to run for president again?
CLARK: Rule nothing out.
MATTHEWS: I love it.
Anyway, thank you very much, General Wesley Clark, still in the mix.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6790643/
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