It's discouraging to see Democrats buying the spin

[BurtWorm]

that Dean is indecorous in his anger. It makes me wonder what happened to the anger that was so prevalent on DU before the primaries even began. What happened to the anger Democrats and DUers were feeling after the 2002 elections when the party wimped out, played nice, and disappointed the stuffing out of us? What happened to the anger Democrats have been feeling about the hypocrites in the media villainizing passion in our politicians--such as they did after the Wellstone funeral and Gore's populist turn at the 2000 convention? Why is Dean being villified by his own party for showing some fangs?

[West Coast Democrat]

1. Sorry, it had nothing to do with spin

and you CANNOT compare it to the Wellstone memorial (not a funeral, by the way)!!

When I saw Dean on CSPAN, I thought he had gone a bit crazy. This was before I heard from any commentators, or read about it on DU.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

5. It was disappointing to see him do this and I did NOT...

need the reich wing pundits to tell me this.

[BurtWorm]

8. I just did compare it, so I must be able to.

Both have been sited as examples of Democrats behaving badly, inappropriately, out of control. And Tom Harkin was involved in both of them!

[West Coast Democrat]

12. Tom Harkin did nothing inappropriate either time

and Rick Kahn was not running for President.

Just admit your guy looked ridiculous. No need to drag Paul Wellstone's name into it. This really pisses me off.

[BurtWorm]

20. Well, I'm sorry to piss you off, but that's not my problem.

The comparison is legitimate. I'm not comparing Wellstone and Dean. I'm not comparing coming in third in Iowa to an untimely death. I'm comparing the media revulsion to Democratic emotion, how they feed off it and make it seem insane. You're entitled to think Dean looked ridiculous. But when it becomes the official story, it makes me suspicious. It comes from many years of putting up with spin that is exactly like this. The "cool" medium can't cope with hotness. We're well educated to get turned off to heat on the little screen.

[West Coast Democrat]

26. I think it was the "booing" of Trent Lott that caused the uproar

but then again, that was the Wellstone audience, and not a candidate for President.

[BurtWorm]

31. I think it was the allegedly inappropriate use of politics

that set off the uproar, the turning of a memorial into a "political rally." The real uproar was over the spectacle of energized Democrats making an awful noise. I liked it, myself. But the media were "shocked."

[mopinko]

2. cuz karl rove told them to?

[Cocoa]

3. how many people are buying it?

I don't care one bit about his so-called anger. I just think he's kind of fake.

[Guaranteed]

16. Please tell me you're not an Edwards supporter. nt

[Dookus]

4. well...

If you were here last night, you'd see that a whole lot of us, including some Dean supporters, thought the "angry speech" was way over the top, LONG before there was any "spin" put on it.

We had a thread grow over 100 posts in no time, BEFORE any pundits could comment on it.

We saw the obvious. I know his supporters think it's nothing and it'll go away, but I don't think it will. I think people will discuss this speech 20 years from now, just like they still discuss Nixon's five o'clock shadow or Dukakis' tank fiasco.

[BurtWorm]

10. Or Muskie's "tears" in the snow?

[mitchum]

25. Whoop, there it is!

That's the one, Burt Worm

[question everything]

17. Well said, Dookus. Thanks n/t

[SW FL Dem]

21. I equate this to the Nixon "Checkers" Speech

Dean's advisors agree. Check out the Dean NH strategy today.

[cthrumatrix]

6. let the pundits spin ...the bashers hoot....the primaries are in six days

if they really wanted to view the Dr...let them comment on todays speech....excellent

let them go...

[HuckleB]

7. Yup. Though I don't think that has festered with the general public.

I just got back from a chat next door with about a dozen neighbors, including the lone Limbaugh dope, who was out to get his digs in on SOTU night. Of course, he brought up the Dean speech. Interestingly, no one else understand the hype about it. And, excepting myself, there are no other Dean supporters in that crowd, which included three Republicans (in addition to Limbo's pal) and a Kerry supporter, with the rest all in the Clark camp. They all looked at it as the press hyping nothing in something. And I didn't say a word on the subject.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

9. Mabye because a presidential candidate absolutely lost his shit in public

We do not need a screamer.

[ariellyn]

11. It has everything to do with spin...if you look at the actual footage of

Dean and listen to what he's saying, there's no craziness there. He's excited. He also has a certain demeanor--his brow is thick and raised, his face is tight--his expression doesn't change very much, for lack of a better way to put it. But it's the narration by the "liberal media" that is doing more to paint a picture of Dean as crazed--that coupled with the attacks on him in recent days questioning his mental capacity. As I have said before, Dean is a huge threat to the right, they are trying to get rid of him and many in DU are all to glad to help. That's very sad. It he loses fairly and squarely, that's fine. But to jump on the bandwagon of those who attack us, is inexcusable.

[beaconess]

14. You can spin it all you want, but a significant number of people

thought he looked like a damned fool.

Bottom line - the general public is not as enamoured of Dr. Dean as you guys are and don't think his antics are the least bit appealing.

Continuing to make apologies for him and encouraging him to keep behaving like a jackass doesn't do him any good. Trying to appease the true believers in the room while on national television is what got him into this mess in the first place.

[BurtWorm]

23. People with a history of excessive negativity about Dean

aren't the most reliable witnesses.

[lurk_no_more]

24. So you're saying that what we all witnessed and said

And what all the media witnessed and said, is collective spin?

The mind is a terrible thing to waste!


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[BurtWorm]

27. I'm just noticing that the people who were most "shocked"

by Dean's passion are people who have been wanting Dean out of the way for one reason or another.

[Guaranteed]

29. "Crazy" is definitely spin. A straightjacket is definitely SPIN.

Do you ACTUALLY THINK Dean is CRAZY??? Does he NEED MEDICATION??

To answer your question, YES. You are exaggerrating and SPINNING, collectively.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. The clip plays into a negative stereotype, that's the problem

Basic rule of campaigning; counter or neutralize negative stereotypes, don't amplify or reinforce them, if avoidable and unnecessary.

The Democratic Party is composed of concentric circles; specific candidate supporters, general party activists, and people who normally vote Democratic. Those are different groups, with lessening levels of personal allegiance to "the Party". It's not groups one or two that get bent out of shape by a TV clip, unless that TV clip is freaking out too many folks in group three. That's where the problem either is, or isn't.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. In other words:

Conform.

[Tom Rinaldo]

30. No, in other words

Avoid handing your enemy a loaded gun. Reread my post please. I said it's best to not reinforce a negative stereotype when it is unnecessary to do so. Sometimes it is not only necessary but important to play to your strength. Deans' pointed angry attacks on Bush serve an important function. That pep talk to his supporters could have been handled differently or off camera.

[question everything]

15. Anger was a good start to fire the troops

but it will scare away the swing voters. We failed misearbly in 2002 because we had no substance to offer.

In 1984 Reagan was talking about "morning in America" and he was smiling. Dear Walter Mondale was very serious when he promised to raise taxes.

Bill Clinton was optimist: don't stop thinking about tomorrow. Even his It's the economy stupid was said with... I am at a loss for word, not at an awfulizing tone.

In every area in life, it is not enough to reject something. You have to offer a solid alternative, a positive, hopeful one.

People in Iowa are no nonsense ones with both feet on the ground and they reacted to substance, not to anger.

[Dr Fate]

18. I have never had a problem with Dean's passion...

...never been a Dean basher either- I just want to see DEMS defeat Bush...

[Guaranteed]

22. Watching Letterman's bit...it was actually really funny...

Showed Dean with the state naming...and his head exploded....Letterman's not really making fun of him, though. They understand that he's just rallying his "stormtroopers."

[IranianDemocrat]

28. You can't win on total anger.

Although I admire the anger Dean displays, I believe he needs to tie in more of a message of hope and prosperity.

[BurtWorm]

32. That message of hope is there, which is why he turns his supporters on.

It's not the anger that got me. It's the message that the power to change the way things are is in our hands. Dean is a combination of rabble rouser and solid pragmatist. He lays out the points that need to be changed--Bushist foreign and domestic policy, the culture of crony capitalism, the reckless fiscal picture, a too collusive Democratic party--and suggests how it can change--toward multilateralism, universal health coverage, rational fiscal policy, a reinvigorated Democratic Party that doesn't write off any region and becomes a party of all the people again. I find it hopeful that a candidate with a chance to win has a vision radically different from the status quo.