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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:46 PM
Original message
A dennis kucinich SOTU... wow!
Following is a dennis speech, i'm presuming that the copyright is not an issue given the kucinich lion heart: (read more at www.kucinich.us)

THE STATE OF THE NATION
Jobs, Trade, Health Care, Housing, Retirement Security

Dennis J. Kucinich
Tuesday, January 20, 2004
Bedford, New Hampshire

Our nation is in a perilous condition due to fear, war, tax cuts to wealthy Americans, and trade policies leading to widespread unemployment in manufacturing and high tech industries. The rising costs of health care threaten the financial stability of all Americans. The retirement security of tens of millions of Americans is in doubt. Social Security is under attack with another privatization scheme.

National economic trends are discouraging. The official unemployment rate for all of 2003 was 6%, but this figure masks the number of people who have not been able to find work and who have given up looking for work and are no longer recorded in the totals. Tax cuts produced only a fraction of the jobs promised. The economy would have to create 375,000 new jobs per month in order to keep the Administration from having the worst job creation of any administration since the beginning of the Great Depression. There are 2.4 million more people unemployed now than when the Administration took office.

In less than three years, a projected ten year surplus of $5.6 trillion has turned into a projected deficit of $3.6 trillion.

The official poverty rate is up, from 11.7% in 2001 to 12.1% in 2002. Nearly 34.6 million Americans live in poverty. About 1.7 million more than in 2001.

In New Hampshire, 11,255 workers have become unemployed since this Administration took office and 22,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost.

It is urgent that we immediately institute a job creation program patterned after the WPA of the Administration of President Franklin D. Roosevelt. America has hundreds of billions of dollars of infrastructure needs. We must rebuild our roads, our bridges, water systems, sewer systems, roads, libraries; build new schools and colleges and new sustainable energy systems. It will be a $500 billion program funded. The Federal Reserve holds a large amount of treasury securities, a certain portion would be transferred to a newly created Federal Bank of Infrastructure Modernization. The money would be loaned to the states at zero interest. The states would pay the principal back which would replenish funds in the bank. The zero interest loan would cut the cost of projects in half for states, by eliminating interest expense.

Every state and local government would have access to $185 per capita per year for ten years for infrastructure improvements. We can put millions of people back to work with this program.

It is clear that the tax cuts to those in the top bracket have not improved the economy. They must be cancelled because they have created a system that favors the wealthy over the middle class. The tax cuts have complicated the tax code with loopholes and caused massive deficits.

We must stop the shift in wealth occurring in our tax code and we must stop the loss of jobs occurring through our trade policies.

Since July of the year 2000, America has lost three million manufacturing jobs in textile, steel, automotive, aerospace, and shipping industries. A$550 billion trade deficit is looming as a long-term threat to our national economic security.

The tax code is not the only area where the Administration is helping the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It has spent $155 billion for an unnecessary war driven by fear. It spends half of the nation’s resources for military purposes.

The urgent needs of the American people are for health care, education, housing, job creation, retirement security and veterans benefits.

A new direction and strong measures are needed to repair the hopes of Americans for physical and economic security.

Health Security

Forty three million Americans do not have health insurance, including 125,000 residents of New Hampshire. Seventy percent of the uninsured live in a family with at least one full time worker. Health insurance premiums have increased about 50% in the past three years. Over the past three years, senior citizens total spending on prescription drugs has increased by almost 50%. American seniors will spend $1.8 trillion dollars on prescription drugs over the next ten years. Everyone knows Americans pay more for prescription drugs than people in other countries, including Canada. The Administration’s Medicare plan will increase profits of the drug companies and undermine Medicare through eliminating cost containment measures. And not everyone receives the meager benefits. In New Hampshire, for example, 18,300 seniors are worse off under this new plan.

It is time for a universal, single payer, not-for-profit system, extended Medicare for All. Such an approach is contemplated in HR 676, a bill I have cosponsored in the House of Representatives, which will phase in a full coverage plan over a ten year period.

This approach to health care emphasizes patient choice and puts doctors and patients in control of the system, not insurance companies.

The fact is that the American people are already paying for a universal standard of care, but are not getting it. Over $1.6 trillion, fully 15% of our gross domestic product, is spent for health care. This amount would be sufficient today to provide full health care coverage for all medically necessary procedures, plus care for vision, dental, mental health, long term care and a prescription drug benefit. It could all be covered if all the health care dollars went for health care. Unfortunately, hundreds of billions of that $1.6 trillion goes for the benefit and activities of a private, for profit health care system. Consider what you actually pay for when you pay your health insurance premium: Corporate profits, stock options, executive salaries, advertising, marketing, lobbying, the cost of private sector administration 15% - 30%. Executives of health insurance corporations routinely make millions a year while their agents routinely refuse doctors requests for tests and procedures for patients. Premiums, deductibles and co pays are soaring while a few profit at the expense of the many and while health insurance companies are busy with expensive acquisitions which allow them to achieve increasing market dominance.

In New Hampshire, Anthem raised premiums substantially after it acquired Blue Cross and Blue Shield. Executive of pharmaceutical companies also make millions while charging American consumers three times what people in other countries pay for the same prescription.

I am offering the American people a plan which will remove private insurance companies and all their tricks from the system, along with their profits, excessive executive salaries, their waste and their paperwork and redirect resources to actual treatment.

Insurance companies make money not providing health care. They do not treat or heal anyone; physicians and health practitioners do. A study by researchers of Harvard Medical School and Public Citizen found that health care bureaucracies last year cost the United States almost $400 billion and that a single payer system would save at least $286 billion annually, enough to cover all the uninsured and to provide a fully funded prescription drug benefit.

A not-for-profit, national health care system will actually decrease the total health care spending while providing more treatment and services.

Funding for a not-for-profit system will come primarily from existing government health care spending (more than $1 trillion) and a phased-in tax on employers of 7.7%, which would yield about one trillion. Employers who provide coverage are already paying 8.5% on average.

The cost effectiveness of a not-for-profit, universal system of health care has been affirmed by several studies, including those by the General Accounting Office and the Congressional Budget Office. The GAO has said, “If the US were to shift to a system of universal coverage and a single payer, as in Canada, the savings in administrative costs would be more than enough to offset the expense of universal coverage.

Housing Security

Twelve million households pay half of their incomes for housing. There is an urgent need for subsidized housing. Programs for the preservation of public housing, project based Section 8 and tenant based subsidized housing programs must be fully funded and expanded. This will lower the amount of family income that goes to housing, so that millions of American families can meet other basic needs for food, shelter, utilities and transportation.

The Department of Justice must investigate, prosecute and eliminate predatory lending practices of high interest rates, balloon payments and inflated lender fees which lead to people losing their homes. These sharp practices are often aimed at low income and minority communities which often lack legal recourse.

Social Security

Social Security is essentially sound. The Social Security Trust Fund, according to an analysis by the fund’s trustees, is solvent through the year 2042, without any congressional action being necessary. Social Security is projected to pay all of its promised benefits for the next four decades without any changes whatsoever. A shortfall projected to occur in 2042 is not a crisis.

There is a political crisis looming for Social Security, however.

The same Administration which looked the other way while millions of investors were defrauded by chicanery in mutual funds and unscrupulous Wall Street operators such as those at Enron, Global Crossing and WorldCom now wants to take your Social Security funds and invest them in the stock market in a plan called "private savings accounts."

Most people understand that investment in the stock market is risky. What goes up must come down. For every winner there is a loser. Social Security is the only guaranteed income for old age and for disability. It is what protects many Americans from poverty. Proponents of this scheme to invest Social Security funds in the stock market assume that the stocks will earn a 7% annual rate of return over the next 75 years. Social Security trustees are predicting the growth of the economy will slow to 1.45% per year over that period, meaning that it will be impossible to get a 7% rate of return on stocks in a slow growth economy.

Additionally, we must insist on a critical inspection of the actuarial assumptions for privatization.

There is no sound reason to privatize Social Security. Simply put, the money belongs to main street, not Wall Street. People work a lifetime to gain a small measure of economic security through Social Security and no one's future ought to be jeopardized just because of the greed of a few who want to fuel the growth of the market.

Social Security is solid. But the same is not true for the private pension plans of tens of millions of Americans which are in jeopardy. More and more corporations are failing to fully fund their defined benefit pension plans and using bankruptcy to cheat hardworking American out of their full retirement benefits while dumping pension obligations onto the taxpayer backed Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation.

The PBGC assumed liabilities of 152 plans in the last year. A $7.73 billion dollar surplus in the year 2001 has turned into a deficit of over $11 billion. The takeover of several giant plans, together with its own faltering stock portfolio has led the PBGS to incur a $7.6 billion loss in 2003, the largest in its history.

What’s more, the under funding of pension plans is so severe that it is anticipated that $85.5 billion in pension claims are under funded.

According to the LA Times, nearly 90% of the 343 companies in the S&P 500 that offered traditional, defined-benefit pension plans in 2002 were under funded, despite the fact that in 1999 these corporations had a total pension surplus of $251 billion. By the end of 2002 that surplus became a shortfall of over $350 billion.

The average under funding of pensions is at least $10,000 per covered employee. The under funding of pensions is a breach of trust. Corporate executives and board members ought to be accountable in under both civil and criminal law for under funding pensions. Pension funds must have equal standing in bankruptcy court with banks in order to protect assets. Pension fund obligations should be attached to successor companies.
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Virgil Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Glad to see you support the DK message
This is the third time this has been up though. I wish they had a video up at his website so we could see his delivery from NH yesterday.

Don't you think it strange that nobody seems to raise the issue of NAFTA and the WTO in the area of jobs and trade. DK will do well when the time comes he can be heard.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. oops! Third time ... <red face>
i'm sorry... but i still love dennis... and its worth repeating 10 times more than the nazi version.... the truth..

I wish also i could see his delivery. Speaking for the real victems of the bushevik repressionn, the poor, homeless and disenfranchised... i am totally in love.... :HEARTS:

Dennis, you rock the world.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's the point, huh? The media oxygen all last year
mosty went to the person with all the heat and NONE of the light.

DK is the light.
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. given the current state of his campaign, isn't this...
....a bit presumptuous? No offense to any of his supporters here....
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. ?which state? new hampshire?
corporate media blackout? The heart of the democratic party and the real voice of the voicless millions and millions of disenfranchised americans recognizes no polls.

Dennis is speaking the truth, as he will as president one day. He is our president, speaking the truth of the real people.

Perhaps in the future, he may join forces with another several candidates to form a unity administration to make a great peace administration... a great coming together... but until then, he is president kucinich alone speaking the truth... and which part is not the truth if you fault him?

peace,
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. ?Maybe the part where he gave his votes to a War supporter ( Edwards)
in Iowa? much to the confuson and consternation of many of his former supporters?
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. the only ones confused
were the Dean supporters
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. politics? Isn't this a political campaign?
Edited on Thu Jan-22-04 12:04 AM by sweetheart
Without the edwards alliance, the kucinich results in iowa would have looked like this: 0.0

It would have killed the spirit of his campaign and the hopes and aspirations of those who support him.

Edwards is, in addition to his war supporting, a serious champion of the american poor, and a fellow democrat. Through that agreement, the kucinich campaign came out with a win, a showing that has inspired further voters and contributors to come on board and take a risk telling the truth.

Imagine one day, that you are sitting by a road and a scared and desperate woman comes running by and turns and runs to hide in the woods behind you, begging you not to tell anyone. A man comes up with a knife in his hands and demands "Which way did she go?" Do you tell the truth? What is the truth? Do you tell him where she is so he can potentially kill or rape her? Do you tell a lie so she remains safe.

The kucinch alliance with edwards was shewd politics and further demonstrates Dennis's ability to work with other politicians to achieve the goals of his supporters...

People that are offended by that are certainly politically naive, and should stay home and watch cartoons, as reality will never satisfy.
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I saw ONE Kucinich supporter bothered
all the other complainers were Dean supporters

IRAQ IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE
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MMT Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. Aren't you Dean supporters ABB?
If you are, then why does it matter who anyone partners with?
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. its just a counter to Bush's speech
no presumption, just a rebuttal
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. yes
except he beat Bush to it in that he gave it midday
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent speech. All depth- no fluff
Go Kucinich. You are one in a million and your supporters will work our fingers to the bones to get you there.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kick
If only we had real politics like this.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. the real deal
You can listen to the audio from the DK web site
http://resources.kucinich.us/video/press_audio/sotn.ram

I like how he cuts to the chase at the outset:

"Our nation is in a perilous condition due to fear, war, tax cuts to wealthy Americans, and trade policies leading to widespread unemployment in manufacturing and high tech industries. The rising costs of health care threaten the financial stability of all Americans. The retirement security of tens of millions of Americans is in doubt. Social Security is under attack with another privatization scheme.

National economic trends are discouraging. The official unemployment rate for all of 2003 was 6%, but this figure masks the number of people who have not been able to find work and who have given up looking for work and are no longer recorded in the totals. Tax cuts produced only a fraction of the jobs promised. The economy would have to create 375,000 new jobs per month in order to keep the Administration from having the worst job creation of any administration since the beginning of the Great Depression. There are 2.4 million more people unemployed now than when the Administration took office.

In less than three years, a projected ten year surplus of $5.6 trillion has turned into a projected deficit of $3.6 trillion.

The official poverty rate is up, from 11.7% in 2001 to 12.1% in 2002. Nearly 34.6 million Americans live in poverty. About 1.7 million more than in 2001."
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Virgil Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. The Internet experience just gets better
I am listening to the speech from the link you put up while I am surfing the WWW. Kucinich is talking sense and makes the vile and lies of Bu$h's State of the Union look like the insult to democracy and the American people that it was.

Kucinich is great and Bu$h is trash.
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'm sorry
But Kucinich is a fringe candidate. He is the Pat Buchannan of the democratic party. I respect his ideals, but to be realistic, Bush might win 50 states if he were the nominee.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. You're a tad off the mark there
As a kucinich supporter, different, obviously than yourself, i wholly expect him to not be the nominationn and it does not phase me in the least. He is the FIRST candidate in an election that i can honestly say i want to

vote FOR

. I will vote for him in the caucus, and then vote for whomever is selected for the runoff against the vile evil scum that is wrecking the goodwill of the american people.

Dennis's showing and inclusion in the future democratic administration will allow the democratic party to include its intelligent fringe, without forcing them out to another party like in the last election when the DLC ignored the signs.

A strong showing for dennis will force the policy base of the party towards sanity, and he knows it... he is fighting for the soul of america as much as the presidency. He is a great hero, and if you want to bash him on electablity, you should take a look at his record of winning in 50/50 districts, as that is rather impressive as well... so i would even contest that claim... but given that his 8% poll showing is real in NH, i accept realpolitik, but to presume that we are stupid spoilers is going a bit wide.

SUpporting dennis is supporting integrity and honesty despite popularity and lies... and its about time SOMEONE did that, as the shit is too goddam thick.
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Like I said
I respect his ideals, but he is just too far to the left for me. I totally disagree with about 90% of Bush's policies, but I don't think it helps the democratic cause at all when he is called evil or compared to Hitler. One thing I can say for Bush is that he doesn't personally attack his opponents. I think it makes us look bad to the majority of Americans who are not political junkies as we are to be calling names when the opponent is not doing the same.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. well
Edited on Thu Jan-22-04 01:10 AM by goodhue
Thanks for sharing . . . But DK nevers attacks Bush personally so your post has me somewhat confused. Perhaps you are thinking of the other so-called "anti-war" candidate.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. What does calling Bush names
have to do with Kucinich's candidacy?

He's never called Bush anything but "The President". And what was the need to come to this thread to tell us that our man is "fringe" and a loser? So far you haven't backed it up with anything.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Does dennis call bush hitler?
I do, because he is a mass murdering dictator, and like you say, i'm a political junkie...

Is this chat about impressing potential voters? ha! The first battle (primary) is to win the nomination and the policy platform for the party. The DLC centrists have sold the democratic party down the tubes, and i have to wear a radiation suit AND hold my nose to get anywhere near voting for a DLC boy, as i realize that the way to revive the democratic party is to revive the grassroots people who are disenfranchised by american government today.

you heard SOTU... its all lies and double speak as has been this entire administration... all the while they have fucked americans in to poverty, homelessness and destroyed the country... its beyond nice words.

We are on the same team, and i think that the entire range of candidates speaks rather politely about the existing scum adminstration of pig fucking assholes :) But geesh, i have no respect for them at all. THey are criminals at best and should be swinging from the gallows, not running a country. They have mass murdered 1000's of civilians unnecessariily put at risk a generation of americans as well as the nation as a whole with their ill conceived foriegn policies and on top of that, they are destroying womens rights on a worldwide scale. THis is no small crime, and i'll be honest, if i had the chance to save bush's live on live camera and recieve a congressional medal of honour, say from drowning.... i'd let him slip away. He should be in prison, he and the republican congress have defiled the constitution they are sworn to protect, they are guilty of high treason... no if ands or buts.
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Virgil Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Which one policy do you disagree with most?
Do you disagree with a universal single-payer health insurance. That is what one bill in California suggest for their broken system.

Do you think we should stay with NAFTA which was a gift to industry and had nothing to do with sound policy. He says NAFTA cost 550,000 jobs in this speech. Do you think NAFTA should continue?

He says on the day he takes office he will end the DEA policy of arresting sick people using cannabis for medical purposes. I mean that is a no brainer and nobody, but nobody can even do the obvious. He says that injustice and that misguided effort will end on taking office and not one day more.

But he says a lot of things. What is it you disagree with most?
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Hmmm
I do think NAFTA should continue. Free trade is important and Bill Clinton understood that. Where is his evidence that NAFTA coted 550,000 jobs. Was it NAFTA or the Bush 2000-2002 recession? I need to analyzethe data. I don't take any politician on their word. I don't know much about his health insurance, but I am not for social medicine (if that is what it is). I am for the legalization of marijuana, but I personally do not smoke it and am not going to vote on that issue. What I disagree with him the most on is that he wants to cut military spending in a time when millions around the world want us dead and we are at war with terrorism.
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Virgil Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. It is not socialized medicine
The doctors would not work for the government. He just says reduce the administrative cost and the big salaries of executives that make money by denying coverage instead of delivering services.

There is plenty of info on NAFTA but the greatest reality on it is to figure out it is a tool of industry. All I can say is seek and find.

Now do you think that anyone is going to launch an invasion of the US. We have a war that was driven by the military industrial complex. The intelligence mechanisms we spent billions on were bypassed to a new area of the Pentagon to contrive information that lead us to an illegal war of aggression.

We spend as much on the military as the rest of the world combined and you need to count the $80 billion spent by the VA as a military expenditure.

Our military is falling apart and there at least 40,000 people being held in the military by a stop-loss order because they want out. We have a bloated budget and have for some time. The Pentagon cannot account for the money and the trillion dollars that is unaccounted for is a bigger story in Australia than it is here. They are not spending what money they have wisely. The system has been taken over by industry just like the energy company dictates policy and the NIH and the FDA are in bed with the pill companies.


You may not want to vote for Kucinich, but I hope you listened to the speech to see how he is different and how he is really for the people.
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I respectably disagree
But I am biased. I live in Norfolk Virginia, where at least half the population is military. I am all for military spending, for those who want to cut it pose a serious threat to the economic well being of my region. People forget how many people the military and defense contractors employ. If we cut our military budget to the budget of say Britain, we would lose more jobs in one month than we did in the entire Bush administration. Contractors such as Northrop Grumman, Lockeed Martin, and General Dynamics would no longer be needed.
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. the alternative, how many Iraq's do we need to justify the budget?
How many lies and FAKE enemies and how many dead humans does it take to keep our ridiculously bloated military budget?

I understand your concerns about employment, how about those companies develop and research alternative energy sources or other ways OF PROGRESS. There are other avenues besides creating weapns of mass destruction.

TWL

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VirginiaIs4Lieberman Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. I was not for the war
But spending helps everyone. I am actually somewhat nuetral on the war. The fact that we went in without an imminent threat concerns me, but I am glad Saddam is out of there. Moreover, it does give us a strategic foothold on a country that was a terrorist supporting state and borders on several others. I believe we do need a plan to combat radical Islamic terror groups who want us all dead and I would like to hear some candidates come up with something better that what Bu$h has done. From what I have heard from DK in the debates, he doesn't seem to want to do anything. I am not a hawk. Iraq was not an imminent threat at face value, but terror groups are. How do we rid them? I think if someone is going to beat Bu$h, he must have a plan for combating terror groups. DK is a great idealist thinker and I think he is a great man who I would love to have dinner with. But, to paraphrase Harvard professor and widely respected political scientist Samuel Huntington, Idealism in international politics can only work when national security can be taken for granted. While Iraq may or may not be a fake enemy (who really knows what Bu$h was thinking), remember 9/11, terrorism is not a fake enemy.
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. National security acheived through peace or killing everyone else
Through understanding, communication etc. Understanding the reasons WHY people may want to attack the US. It is not because of our 'freedoms'.

I guess the question is do we work to get along and understand one another or just kill everyone who is not like us?

TWL
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. That is what Huntington was talking about
We should not kill people who aren't like us, I agree, which is why we shouldn't attack Africa, India, France, Mexico, or Peru. However, terrorists kill in the name of God. They are a threat to us and this should not be acceptable. We can understand them all day, but we cannot force them to understand us. There has to be a better way to fight them.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Not to mention the fact that
U.S. ventures into other countries' business are the greatest single source of anti-Americanism.

An acquaintance told of traveling overland from Europe through Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Burma, Thailand, Cambodia, and Vietnam in 1960 and finding no anti-Americanism, just friendly people, both officials and civilians.

I think it's significant that this was before the Vietnam War.
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snoochie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Military spending helps contractors MUCH more than employees
OR the economies.

It would make more sense to just write checks to the citizens. At least that way we wouldn't be creating our own enemies by setting ourselves up as a scary out-of-control beast to be defended against. We're giving countries REASONS to acquire nuclear weapons. That threat to our security doesn't concern you at all?

Neutral on the war? Neutral on something that has cost over 500 soldier's lives, over a thousand more wounded, and over ten thousand Iraqi lives?

Neutral on flushing over $140 billion (SO FAR, bush will ask for MORE next year) down the pentagon's maw, while children go undereducated, unfed, live in substandard housing, and have no health insurance?

Starting a war in Iraq INCREASED the risk of terrorist attacks here.

Didn't some foreign policy guy from Reagan's cabinet recently say that bush was naive to think we could rid the world of terrorism, much less evil?

Each time we kill innocent civilians trying to, we create more terrorists.

How stupid. But the MIC is safe.
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. So
Would your plan be to completely disarm and leave ourselves vulnerable and hope disregard the fact that there is good and evil?

I am not saying that the Lieberman approach is necessarily the right approach, but it is the only one that has made sense to me so far.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. Whose plan are you asking about?
The poster or Dennis Kucinich?

Because if you want to know what Dennis' plan is I can explain that easily.

No we don't completely disarm, that's just silliness. Equally silly is the notion that we need enough nuclear weapons stockpiled to blow up the entire planet at least 3 times over. WTF are we going to do with them? Use them? On who, when and WHY?! Now the Bush administration wants to make MORE of the vile things and Lieberman supports that!

We don't need more nukes, a missile defense system that can't work, black ops that are meant to take control of other nations governments without the consent of the governed, etc. etc. etc. We NEED our troops to have decent housing for their families. We need them to be paid for their service so that none of them ever need to rely on food-stamps to make ends meet. We need them to be properly equipped before we ship them off to combat zones.

Military spending? My friend every last one of the expenses I just mentioned has been CUT in the current military budget, right along with benefits for those who happen to make it out of wars alive. No indeed, military spending is not doing a THING for the people it's meant to supply, train and prepare to defend this nation, and that's what I care about before the money supposedly going into the economy.

People like to claim we have "the best military force in the world" only we don't! Why? Because we think it's ok to screw over the common foot-soldier so Bechtel and Halliburton can make a fortune. Hey what the hell right? The Infantryman is expendable, eh? One less soldier to pay if he gets blown to hell because he didn't have proper body armor.

Sorry, that wasn't aimed personally at you, but the things that have been done to the military in the name of "National Security" really, REALLY burn me up. The thing that really upsets me is that it just keeps going and not too many people are screaming about it. The fact is we should ALL be as furious as I am about it because it means our National Defense is weakened. We're already vulnerable in places we shouldn't be. Dennis Kucinich would change that AND take care of our men and women in uniform the way they deserve to be cared for.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #36
45. Kucinich's plan is not to disarm
Be serious. He wants to cut the waste. There is tremendous waste at the Pentagon. Did you know they'd 'lost track of' over a trillion dollars?

He would never do something so stupid as to disarm completely. That is beyond a foolish idea and I have no idea where it came from. Sounds like right wing claptrap, actually.
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MMT Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. If Dennis cuts the military budget, where do you think the money would go?
He wants to put it into education instead. He's not talking about making the money disappear, just about putting it into something besides killing.

He wants to put it into Norfolk schools, for Norfolk's kids, instead of into bombs and bullets to kill Iraq's kids. If less of the money goes into killing Iraq's kids, then maybe they'll kill fewer Norfolk's kids. Wouldn't that be good?
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Nadienne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
47. How much of the military budget
is instead going to Halliburton, Bechtel, etc? Is that figured in with the budget? If it is part of the budget, ending the handouts to them might cover the (what is it? 15% cut?) that Kucinich is proposing.

Think about this: even though our military is more than adequately funded, our troops in Iraq have inadequate supplies...
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. very good point!
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Nadienne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Thank you
:kick:
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snoochie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. If you think NAFTA should continue, you do need to analyze some data
Here's a good first step.

http://www.citizen.org/trade/
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Thanks
I'll look at it and get back to you
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MMT Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
39. Are you saying Democrats wouldn't vote for a Democrat?
Because all the pundit numbers I've seen say that the Democratic candidate automatically gets at least 47 million votes. Are you saying they would vote for Bush, or vote Green, or what?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
41. I guess the fringe depends on where you're sitting.
Many of us consider Lieberman the "fringe." And don't believe that Lieberman can beat Bush.

Perhaps instead of using "fringe" to disenfranchise democrats, we ought to be looking at reality: Dennis Kucinich represents the views of many more people than he's given credit for. Perhaps Lieberman does as well, although I've never met any. In my neighborhood, which is dependent on the defense industry and neighbor to an air force base, anyone who matches Lieberman on the issues is a republican and will be voting for Bush. I know because I listen to them talking about it daily, both in person and in my local paper.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. Looking at the New York Times today
I couldn't help noticing that Dennis has stopped existing again. I may be wrong, but I don't think that he's gotten any coverage except the tallies of his precinct delegates on Tuesday.

This alternative SOTU would have gotten coverage if any of the "approved" candidates had given it.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
24. Dennis is the best
What else can I say?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #24
42. hands down!
:)
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. hands in the air!
GO DENNIS!

TWL
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hedgetrimmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
26. of, by, for and from the people... my government, my man... go DENNIS
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
46. How You Can Help
http://www.kucinich.us/

How You Can Help

Now it's time to focus our full efforts on getting out the votes in the New Hampshire primary election next Tuesday, January 27.

Dennis created momentum in New Hampshire this week with his inspiring State of the Nation speech, and a Town Hall Meeting that demonstrated the heart of democracy at work. Here are some ways you can help him take that momentum forward.

Go to New Hampshire for door-to-door efforts.
Call toll free 1-866-413-3664 to find out how.

Write letters to New Hampshire voters.
Email for complete instructions.

Phone New Hampshire voters.
Call toll free 1-866-413-3664 or email for details.

Contact anyone you know in New Hampshire.
Send an e-card or forward information on issues
you know are important to them.

Contribute to the campaign.
Help us with ads, signs and support costs.

Sign up for email alerts (see right sidebar).

Persuade others to volunteer!

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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. letter writing is easy , but the time factor
is kicking in...

did write some letters...need to check out the phone banking...

Go Dennis!

Peace
DR
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
51. big kick
for the real state of the union
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Honesty
You just made me realize something very crucial. Honesty.

People love to say Kucinich would have 'no chance' in the general election. I disagree, but you just pointed out the biggest plus he has.

He's honest.

What other politician can we say that about?

How important is that to Americans?

I can't wait to campaign for Dennis after the nomination. :)
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
53. DK is my President, regardless of who occupies the White House
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. He's my "dream president"
Some of the best things in this world started out as someone's dream. :)

(In fact, some would argue most, if not all, did.)
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twilight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
55. real ideas from a REAL human!
Dennis Kucinich has the best ideas of the lot. I will never cease to support him. The SOTU stated above is just one reason! Dennis Kucinich is a man of integrity!

He has my vote as long as his name appears on the ballot!



:dem: :kick:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Integrity Honesty Compassion
I almost want to move to his district, just so I can vote for him TWICE! :D
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. I almost can
I live just outside of his district. My Rep is Stephanie Tubbs Jones. 11th district. Kucinich is 10th.

GO DENNIS!
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