Joe Lieberman: WHEN he votes with the GOP on SS changes....

[indianablue]

will he formally switch parties?

I know some say we need all the Democrats we can get but I hate fake Democrats like Lieberman more than I do Republicans actually.

[HockeyMom]

1. Think about it

I cannot come up with ANYTHING of Bush's agenda that Lieberman hasn't supported. Anybody?

[Freddie Stubbs]

7. How about when he opposed Miguel Estrada's nomination?

Apperently some people have selective memories.

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. How about when he opposed drilling the Artic National Wildlide Refuge?

I don't think that is how Bush would have liked him to have voted.

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. You're forgetting when he opposed Bush's new overtime rule

;)

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. Is voting against banning partial birth abortion is part of Bush's agenda?

:shrug:

[elshiva]

17. At least he's pro-choice and pro-environment.

It just bugs us that he can't see another basic Dem like Social Security. Social Security is THE Democrat issue and I can't stand that Joe is leaving it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. Remember when he opposed Charles Pickering's nomination?

It wasn't that long ago.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. Was voting against confirming Ashcroft part of Bush's agenda?

Some people seem to conveniently forget things.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. How about permitting military women access to abortion when stationed

overseas? Lieberman supported this, but it doesn't seem like some thing from the Bush agenda. Perhaps Joe didn't get the memo? :shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. Is opposing making permanant the Estate Tax repeal part of Bush's agenda?

:shrug:

[autorank]

2. I agree, the "L" stands for :"loathsome" -- if he does this, kick him out

On edit: Joe Lieberman, the Loathsome Dork

[ProgressiveConn]

3. I hope he does.

It'll make my job of putting a progressive in his place that much easier. =)

[applegrove]

4. What are we natzies? He is voting is conscience. He may be wrong

or deluded or trading his vote for something in Israel. Who knows. Ignore him and move on.

Chances are it is a tactic to get a whole lot of anti-liberman/seemingly anti-Israel press out there - in order that Rudy wins the Senatorial election in New York. The rovbots toot their horns about how they are going for the african american Democratic base but you never hear them utter a dam word about going for the Jewish vote.

Move on. Don't fall into the trap. Libermann would follow a frog to the moon if he thought it would guarantee security for his family & his people. You have no idea what it is like to be him. You have been separated from a Democrat. Expect that he will likely face competition for the nomination in Connecticut. Move on. Don't turn this into a hate fest. You will be playing to tune Rove wants you to. Afterall wouldn't Florida & New York be the next feather's in his cap?

Focus on the enemy. Yell and jeer the WH who has yet to publish or put pen to paper regarding SS plan. A tactic to make Democrats run around like Chickens with their heads cut off. Focus your rage there. What is in the plan? and do not take "later" for an answer. Many predict growth inside the US will not be 4% but 1% or even -2% over the next 50 years. In that case you would want your money in the World Stock Market and not in government bonds. Saying this does not mean you support the White House Plan. Because we have not seen the White House Plan.

Liberman is not your biggest problem. Focus on the evil ones - not the human being who follows his heart and it takes him somewhere else. It is predictable that Liberman would get close to any White House at this juncture in Israel's history. There is a chance for peace. He will take it. It is the normal thing for him to do. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HIM BUT YOU CAN EMPATHIZE. Of course he does not run USA to cut & run from Iraq. Of course not!

[indianablue]

5. Is he an American or Israeli ?

America should come first not Israel, he represents people of Connecticut not Israel.

[applegrove]

6. He is an American. Of jewish heritage. And you do not know what

that means. But nobody is telling me as a Woman that I do not have my own life experiences and views when I vote. Or that as a woman I do not have a vested interest in the UN and its attempts to end wars.

People have different lives and still belong in the same tent. And it helps to see those differences and take note of them because they are real. Didn't you feel anything when OJ didn't get convicted? There would be a whole pile of African Americans who have a totally different relationship with the law than you do (if you are say -white). You live in a free country and free votes are allowed in the senate. Liberman's is absolutely predictable and normal. Given the opportunists in the White House - I would have expected nothing else but a whorry little quid pro quo.

There will be faustian victms everywhere. Our job is to not go after the victims but to keep things clear. Liberman is the attempt at wedging. We should all know better than to fall for it. He is one Senator. He seems gone. It was entirely predictable. Let's move on.

[elshiva]

11. I wish he would wake up

Dubya hates Jews. He thinks they are going to hell. Dubya means nothing good for Jews.

[applegrove]

13. Dubya means nothing good for humanity - but for now.. he has some

cards.

[imenja]

21. says who?

You? He advances a policy that Israelis like very much. I've never seen any evidence of anti-semitism on Bush's part. The Republicans made in roads into the Jewish vote this election. Just because Bush is a horrible president doesn't mean he is guilty of every sin known to human kind.

[elshiva]

22. He said that only those who believe in Christ will go

to heaven to a Texas reporter while he was governor. It was in the documentary "Frontline: The Choice 2004."
Also recorded in the book "Fortunate Son" is his "joke" that he wanted to fly to Israel and tell all "those people" they can't be saved.

[imenja]

23. that's a religious ethnocentrism

Fundamentalist Christians, and many other Christians, believe theirs is the only true religion. You might note that Jews believe the exact same thing, as do Muslims.

[elshiva]

24. Fundamentalist Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe theirs

is the true religion and everyone else will cook. (I don't and a lot of liberal Jewish-Christians don't.) The question is should any Jew support a prez who thinks that they are going to cook? I would think not.

[imenja]

30. it's an unholy alliance

but it nonetheless exists. Conservative Christians are now the largest contributers to the American Israeli Defense fund.

[elshiva]

36. Because they believe in the rapture crap.

Support Israel and the rapture will come. The thing is when the rapture comes the Jews will have to convert or get cooked. They do not really care about Jews.

[applegrove]

26. I don't agree that Bush is necessarily anti-semetic , he is anti-humanity.

I didn't say that and I have no proof of it. What I said was that he was a danger to mankind because of the contents of his soul, his adolescence (due to the company he keeps who want to use him) and the people he does business with. He values bad information over good, he denies his own dark motives and those of people who he connects with. He enabled the worst sorts of characters to get into the WH and continuously enables their wedging of issues that will take a long time to heal. What he doesn't know about himself is what makes him dangerous. And he is dangerous to all mankind for that reason. Even to be extending American doctrine from the turn of 2 centuries ago threatens to destabilize the world. It gives and excuse to any other rogue state. He gives excuses back to elites. And you cannot claim that the Oil Industry and its business & state interventions have done much to promote peace in Israel/Palestine. Bush may be the beneficiary of temporary applause from that neck of the world. But it is only because he sits on the throne. The worst thing he has done in my mind is encourage continued American Heartland's delusions about what it means to be a citizen of the world at a time when we all have to adjust to the decline of the West. Delusions that will let them support him while his hawks re-invent clandestine war and democratic destabilization abroad while he spittles "Liberty" & "Freedom" abroad.

Like I've said before, unless Bush wants to claim responsibility of Yasser Arafat's death, he is not responsible for this peace that may happen in Israel/Palestine. Bush had enough UN pressure on Saddam Hussein just before the invasion to get him to stop funding terrorist families in Palestine. We shall see if Iraq continues to be the heart of Islamist recruitment in the next decade. We shall see how people feel to have their oil industry’s dominated, one more time, by US interests. All Bush did was shake the dice. He corrected a problem his right wing friends started with their support of Saddam Hussein 25 years ago. If he looses loyalty of Europeans - and motivates this HUGE generation of Islamic Arab teens to be anti McJob, then he has done a dis-service indeed. Arafat would have died sometime. Islamists were failing in their plans for religious domination in the Middle East. Bin Laden needed a dupe & he got one.

What George Bush & his Utopian pals did was turn the clock back on acceptable behavior and piss on all the institutions that have slowly worked to improve the lot and norms of mankind. And all because of ego and hubris. America's waning power. A psychopath like Hitler may have had little control over his own behavior. What the hell is the excuse of Bush, Rove & the neocons if they are in fact not clinically deranged? I don't think he would pass for sane & moral sanity is not something his advisors suffer needlessly from. You dance with the ones who brought ya - and the American middle class will pick up the pieces.

I certainly hope that hate has not been activated in each and every old fault line by the time he & his ilk get out of power. Anyone who values & promotes hate as a tool is no friend of a jewish anybody anywhere.

[imenja]

20. Israel has nothing to do with social security

and Lieberman is no more pro-Israeli than John Kerry or John Edwards. There is no space between the parties or among all but a couple of Democrats on the issue of Israel.

Why do you raise the question of Israel in a context of a discussion on Social Security reform?

[applegrove]

27. Liberman is a hawk on Israel. He is also more vulnerable to quid

pro quo and we all know the White House is a place where one reality is traded for another. That is how Israel has something to do with SS. Favours, need, desperation, love, hate, fear, WH. Wave bye bye to Joe Liberman. Sometimes you vote like the weak human being and not like the fighting Democrat.

And we don't even know what the WH deal of SS is?

[imenja]

29. that is quite a stretch

a hawkish Israel policy requires no compromise. The Hill is full of hawks on Israel. It seems to me his says more about your own prejudices than anything else.

[applegrove]

35. My point is just that. He may walk out of the tent but that just means

he has other priorities right now. Perhaps he is secretly trying to make Karl Rove explode (walking around full of compassion, as Joe does, could do that).

I was talking against those who want to see Liberman targeted because of his kissing practices & possible votes. I say - if he is in fact going - let him go. Catch him on the flip side.

[Padraig18]

33. He votes with us on party-line votes, and has a decent progressive record.

Say what you will about Joe, but he's hardly a Zell Miller. The man has a lifetime 78 rating from ADA, which is better than about 3/4 of the people in the Senate, INCLUDING* other Democrats. When the leadership calls for a party-line vote, Joe votes with US.

[bling bling]

8. Do you have any links that he'll vote FOR social security?

Where did you hear that?

[imenja]

9. has he said he supports privatization?

All reports are that the Democrats are united against it. And in order for him or anyone else to vote for it, there needs to be a bill before them. It's quite likely the privatization scheme will never be put forward for a vote since so many Republicans are reluctant to support it.

[indianablue]

10. He says he is not against it.

If it does not drive up the debt.


He has made numerous statements at best ride the fence or worse fall into GOP talking points on SS.

[imenja]

19. it does drive up the debt

There is no avoiding that fact.

[femme.democratique]

15. I hope he turns Repuke then he'll be eady to vote out!!!

[zulchzulu]

25. Keep Joe as a "Democrat" before we kick his ass in 2006

We need him like extra cold pizza in a loin cloth in case we are starving to death.

But we need to run someone against him in 06 and let him have LOTS of free time to go on Fox.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cuban_Liberal]

31. He hasn't said he will support them.

The premise of the question is, therefore, faulty.

[Totally Committed]

32. Joe needs to go...

[sea dee]

37. Lieberman isn't fake he's just conservative.

Lieberman isn't fake he's just conservative.