I haven't posted much in this forum as of late

[dsc]

I think I have started one thread and maybe posted 10 posts in this forum since Monday night. Frankly I was pissed and just didn't want to deal. Now I am reflective and sober. It is in that spirt that I post this:

First, credit where credit is due. I have been very impressed with the grace of many Kerry supporters. Two whom I wish to acknowledge are sandinsea and blm. I can't say I had a very high opinion of those posters before the past few days. I am impressed now. They were gracious especially sandinsea. I publicly acknowledge that here and now.

But, and you just knew that was coming, for all too many people the word grace couldn't be used to describe their posts. Disgrace would be more like it. The forum I originally joined wasn't like this. The forum I originally joined wouldn't have dozens of posts bringing in negative Republican inspired coverage of our candidates with hundreds of posts and thoughtful posts on issues of import getting a few dozen responses.

It has been a little less than twenty four hours since I posted the following in GD

We gays and lesbians know something of bullies. Mr. President, you sir are a bully. You showed your true nature when you said this:

A strong America must also value the institution of marriage. I believe we should respect individuals as we take a principled stand for one of the most fundamental, enduring institutions of our civilization. Congress has already taken a stand on this issue by passing the Defense of Marriage Act, signed in 1996 by President Clinton. That statute protects marriage under Federal law as the union of a man and a woman, and declares that one state may not redefine marriage for other states. Activist judges, however, have begun redefining marriage by court order, without regard for the will of the people and their elected representatives. On an issue of such great consequence, the people's voice must be heard. If judges insist on forcing their arbitrary will upon the people, the only alternative left to the people would be the constitutional process. Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage.

The outcome of this debate is important -- and so is the way we conduct it. The same moral tradition that defines marriage also teaches that each individual has dignity and value in God's sight.

Mr. President, some of us were scared of bullies in school. We felt so bad about ourselves we somehow felt we deserved the second class treatment we were getting. Well no more Mr. President. We will fight you and we will win.

We will fight you in the House. We will fight you in the Senate. We will fight you in the state legislatures. We will fight you in the churches. We will fight you in the streets. We will fight you in the gutters where you chose to take us. We will fight you and we will win. When you wonder why we kicked your ass, it will have been this "If judges insist on forcing their arbitrary will upon the people, the only alternative left to the people would be the constitutional process."

We know what "judges forcing their arbitrary will on us" is like. That is why you were in the rostrum delivering your hateful speech. The Constitution handed down by our founders is not the arbitrary will of judges. It is not some paper written after one of your all night binges. It is the floor plan of the house that is our democracy. And squatters don't get to put additions on the house. We will fight you, and we will win.

Who are we? We teach your kids and fix your cars. We cook your food, and invest your money. We grace your screen and landscape your yards. We cut your hair and quarterback your team. We have organized the Continental Army, painted the Sistine Chapel, cracked the Enigma, represented you in the Texas House, and even defended the country in your absence without leave in Alabama.

But that is not why we have a right to marriage. One doesn't earn rights. They are bestowed upon us by our creator. And similarly the fact you are an unelected fraud isn't why you don't get to take them away. For a right to be a right, we shouldn't have to beg a potentate for them on bended knee. You are not our creator and you don't get to take away what he has bestowed.

There are many reasons that you deserve a one way ticket back to Crawford but first among them is this speech. You have used a pulpit that Franklin Roosevelt used to defeat Hitler, Truman used to save Europe, Kennedy used to reach for the stars, Johnson used to fight a war on racism and poverty, and Clinton used to try to bring health care to all to sow division. You are the first President since Wilson to use that pulpit to advocate an amendment restricting people's rights. For that you should be sent back to Crawford to ride an SUV on your fake ranch. And sir, we will send you there.

Mr. President, history will judge you harshly. We will be happy to hasten that day. We don't hate you Mr. President we hate what you have done. Your craven presence in the citadel of Democracy is more than we can bear. But it will almost be worth the joy of seeing you sent back to Texas and knowing we helped do it. We will fight you and we will win.

We are not angry we are outraged. You have turned us into gays and lesbians first and Americans second. We deserve better. The country deserves better. You are neither compassionate nor conservative. True compassion wouldn't permit a two tiered system of rights and true conservatism would honor our Constitution. Our constitution is not some laundry list on which you can spill white out at will. True conservatives leave things alone. They protect our rights they don't trample them. Real conservatives know what history is, sir. You are no conservative. We will fight you, and we will win.

Mr. President, our rights are not milk money to be taken to feed your steroid habit. We know how to deal with bullies like you, we stand up to you and kick your ass. We won't scurry in fear. We will fight you, and we will win. Count on it and remember it when you take that long ride back to Crawford.

end of quote

It got around 35 responses. It took about two hours for a flame bait post trashing supporters of Dean to get over a hundred. It is bad enough to have the week I had with events in the media. I have been told by both my state and my country that I am not a real citizen. And after the last few days in this forum I wonder if I am a real DUer. This is not posted out of anger, nor to solicit pity. It is my real, thought out, sober opinon of what this forum has showed me. I thought this place was about the issues and defeating Bush. Now I really wonder. The jury for me is still out.

[Walt Starr]

1. I was very moved the first time you posted it, dsc

I am shocked and horrified at what a so-called "progressive" message board has become with this posting.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

3. Oy - that is good

Sorry, dsc, but no matter how beautifully written your letter is, it's gonna sink -- we've just begun the primaries. Did you really expect this to get much commentary?

It's nice, but come on.

IMO this place still is about the issues and defeating bush, but as long as we have the whore media, screams and hairdos are going to be treated like 'issues'. Deal. Don't let it get you down, though. What good does it do?

[Tinoire]

4. Excellent post! Have no fears DSC. It's still about issues

& it's still about getting Bush out & getting the right person in to make damn sure that the hateful agenda of the Christian Right doesn't turn my brothers and sisters from the GLBT community into second-class citizens.

You just keep on fighting! Keep on posting. PLEASE! I look forward to your posts even if we don't see eye to eye on everything.

Damn. It's been a bad week for us all.

Just keep on trucking my friend. We'll get our country back and get a REAL LIVE PROGRESSIVE in the White House!

I love your letter to Bush. Gonna send it to a few non-DU friends of mine (Dean supporters) who are feeling very dejected this week. That was really excellent.

Stick around.

Taking our country back! Making America safe for all Americans! Making the world safe for all peoples who are not interested in having the dollar or corporate globalization forced down their throat!

[Jacobin]

5. Heartfelt and convincing statement

I would think no one could legitimately refute a single point you make.

However, in this bloody battlefield we call the primary, the instinct to kill and attack each other to promote our "guy" is overwhelming the system and carefully constructed, well thought out position papers are not the rage. I bemoan that undeniable fact with you.

I do hope that once we have a nominee, position papers and thoughtful pieces such as yours will take their rightful place on DU once again. I sure as hell hope so.

Peace.

[Dogmudgeon]

6. I just can't fathom it

I find nothing about any of the candidates to be so bad that I feel I have to flame any of them, or their supporters. We have several well-qualified people in the running for the top spot; we should be happy that we have so much talent with which to oppose Bush.

Even Joe Lieberman, who I disagree with the most, has a half-decent voting record and has caused Bush a lot of grief over the past few years. But as he has very little chance of being the Democratic candidate to run against Bush, complaining about his shortcomings is a waste of time.

In my mind, there are two major goals we should be working toward:

1. Defeating Bush in the 2004 election;

2. Deflating the Neo-Con and Culture War movement(s).

Complaining that this one screams, or that one voted for the IWR, or the other one doesn't use enough gel in his hair, is ridiculous. But the only ones laughing are Karl Rove and his minions.

Good post, by the way.

--bkl

[MuseRider]

7. Gotta say I missed it.

Excellent post. Also welcome back from your short time away. No, it was not like this on DU before but we all had only the common enemy. This shall pass and we will all work together again. We just have to fight this one out I am afraid. On the other hand, know that you have many friends who will stand along and help you fight this bully. Count on it.

[blm]

8. I prefer to fight Dean on the issues.

Politics is hard enough without personal attacks.

[dsc]

9. I meant every word I said about you

I have been very impressed.

[Lexingtonian]

10. Hang in there

These and the next few weeks and months are probably the hardest ones in the political struggle for equality in practice. Here in Mass. it looks like we will have all the big guns blazing away- from Feb. 11th to May 15th you're not going to enjoy the news from here, but for the end result.

The national arena is too split for them to try something really massive this year without endangering Republican chances at a plurality, though, and I think we'll do well enough in November that this year will have been their last opportunity. I'm sorry to hear about events in Ohio- there is no sugarcoating that humanity lost out in that legislature this year.

All I find worth saying about the primaries is that there is an incompatibility in doing things via the method of willpower that are matters of rockbottom conviction. Will is better at obtaining objects of desire fixated upon. Conviction changes realities, but the way it gains its victorious is tedious and painful.

[Meldread]

11. You are not alone.

I have been around this forum for a little over a year. I don't post much, but I read it almost every day. I am also gay, so yes I know how you feel.

Do not despair. There are always those who will try and stop us, harm us, or slow us down. Hold your head high. You are not a second class citizen. You are a true American -- a true patriot.

Some try and divide us from within, but they will fail. Some try and hold on to the old ways, but the revolution of America is upon us. We will fight and we will win. There can be no other outcome.

We will fight, we will win, and we will endure. Do not despair and do not give in. That is the first sign of defeat. The war for justice both for America and for equal rights is a long road. However, none can deny that it is the right road -- the most righteous road -- and we are not alone. Millions upon Millions rally to our causes. We support each other. We gain strength and power from each other.

United we stand divided we fall. We are battling for the heart and soul of America, and that battle starts here on these forums. It starts in your home, with your family, at your school, and within your place of worship. We will fight and we will win.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. Please save this powerful statement

Please post it once a month if need be, threads about anything other than the horse race and "who said what" sink quickly in the predominant primary favor. You could turn this into a wonderful Op Ed piece for publication in any number of print media. Please do so, I would love your comments to be widely read. Thank you for all the effort that went into this.

[dsc]

13. Thank you

I am seeing about sending it to print places like the various gay publications and maybe my local big city paper.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. I would urge you to think bigger. Why not?

You have nothing to lose. The New York Times is a newspaper that runs Op Ed pieces where I don't think all of them are written by "famous commentates".

Chances are you would get rejected, but maybe not. I suggest you think of try somewhere big before you submit it to more local or gay community outlets. Usually the biggies prefer to have an exclusive on something they print like that. Of course I've never tried it, so what do I know?

[Egnever]

15. OMG!

DSC sometimes i think you are a God!

That was an unbelievable post! Glad I caught it this time before it had a chance to sink.

I am going to send that to a few friends here it was so good and probably spread it arround elswhere. I hope you dont mind.

[dsc]

16. not at all

I have to admit the SOTU made me both angry and sad when it happened. That and the whole Dean thing broke me down a bit. Now I am sober, contemplative, and ready to fight.

[Egnever]

22. Great thanks :)

I sent it out to a few of the suporters here that I am in contact with havent heard anything back yet.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Great post, sorry I missed it the first time.

[redqueen]

18. Kick for equality

:kick:

[sandnsea]

19. Thanks DSC, that was sweet

I'll try really hard to live up to your kind words!

On edit:

I had read this in GD yesterday, already commented on it. Didn't want anybody to think I wasn't moved, I cried all the way through it.

[dsc]

24. you are welcome

[dsc]

20. kick

[Egnever]

21. Bump

:kick:

[loudnclear]

23. Oh, please! 3 in 4 marriages end in divorce or separation!

So much for the institution. You call us civilized?
Hell, there were marriages between slaves in their homeland that we didn't care about. Think how many marriages the US is responsible for breaking up with this Iraqi invasion and aftermath.

Think how many Republicans in and out of office have been divorces...including good o'le Ronnie!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

25. kick

Hey, I try my best.