Terry Sciavo, Karen Ann Quinlan, and a flip-flop by the Catholic Church?

[Nikki Stone 1]

"Karen Ann Quinlan was the first modern icon of the right-to-die debate. The 21-year-old Quinlan collapsed at a party after swallowing alcohol and the tranquilizer Valium on 14 April 1975. Doctors saved her life, but she suffered brain damage and lapsed into a "persistent vegetative state." Her family waged a much-publicized legal battle for the right to remove her life support machinery. They succeeded, but in a final twist, Quinlan kept breathing after the respirator was unplugged. She remained in a coma for almost 10 years in a New Jersey nursing home until her 1985 death."

http://www.who2.com/karenannquinlan.html


The Quinlan case and the decision rendered by the New Jersey supreme court led to the right to refuse treatment and "living wills" in which a person can state his or her desire not to be kept alive by extraordinary means. It is because of the Quinlan case that a patient's guardian can reject extraordinary measures.

If I remember correctly, the Catholic Church was on the side of the parents in the Quinlan case. It was the doctors, who were trained to use all means necessary to sustain life, who were unwilling to remove the extraordinary means keeping Quinlan alive. The Church's opinion was that extraordinary medical care interfered with the will of God.

Now, the Church seems to be on the side of the Schlinders (Terry Sciavo's parents) who are arguing exactly the opposite side of the argument, that, in fact, extreme measures should be used.

If there are any older Catholics out there who remember the case, I'd like to find out a little more on why the Church's stand differs in these cases.

[onehandle]

1. I believe I remember it that way too. (edit)

But has the Catholic church even been involved in the Sciavo case?

Are her parents Catholic?

On edit, the parents of Sciavo claim their daughter is aware (I'm not saying she is). Karen Ann Quinlan was not according to her family.

[alcuno]

3. I've been told that her parents are Catholic. My mom got a letter

from the bishop last week (they are in FL). The letter said that food and water were appropriate to alleviate suffering. However, the Catholic Church has tried to stay out of this issue especially since it does not believe in extreme measures.

These are renegade Catholics and Christian fundamentalists on the loose.

[onehandle]

4. Thanks. I was pretty sure the church itself wasn't touching this case. nt

[Nikki Stone 1]

5. Thanks for the information

I know that the Schindlers are Catholic, and this has been brought up time and time again on the news along with the "right to life" protesters outside the hospital. I wondered where the church came down on this issue, especially since I heard that the Schindlers had a priest on their side--a local guy from their church?

The Church has many opinions I disagree with but they are usually consistent. That was why I wondered about this case.

[janx]

30. I cannot find one of my good Catholic friends who believes

that forcing this woman into artificial life support is a good idea. The renegades are misrepresenting the Catholic Church, just as the renegade fundie protestants are misrepresenting their own Christianity.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. There is a Catholic bishop involved

He tried to give her communion today but was turned away.

[Nikki Stone 1]

14. A bishop? That's pretty high up on the food chain.

Why was he turned away?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Communion is food

and there is a court order not to feed her.

[AntiCoup2K4]

22. If he had given her communion and last rites at the same time.....

...it would have been appropriate. Since the communion wafers would have choked her to death.

Besides, I'm not Catholic, but it's always been my understanding that communuion isn't usually done without confession first, and she certainly was in no position to do that. Not that she's been capable of sinning for the last 15 years either, of course.

[Nikki Stone 1]

25. The host would have dissolved pretty quickly

I don't think it would have choked her. And confession is important but as long as your sins are not mortal sins, you can still recieve communion without confession.

All the same, unless communion was being given to Terry every week, this action by the bishop looks more like a PR ploy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Good point - 2 sacraments at the same time

I was raised Catholic. Yes, she would need to confess before receiving Communion. But other than sinful thoughts, I can't imagine what she would be confessing.

hmm, there is that 4th commandment about honoring her parents . . .

[Nikki Stone 1]

24. Ah...that's interesting. Not that there's enough calories in a host to

really feed anyone.

Does Schiavo get communion every week?

[sasquatch]

2. The Catholic Church has realised there is more money in backing Fascist

Remember how pissed off the Pope was at Bush for invading Iraq, but some members of the Catholic clergy in this country told people if they voted for Kerry they wouldn't be given communine.

[karynnj]

6. The two cases differ in at least 2 ways

1) The Quinlan case involved removing a respirator,not a feeding tube. In fact, when the respirator was removed, she lived for many years afterward. No legal attempt was made to stop whatever means were used to feed her while she was in a coma. So it may be that the line used by the church comes at that point.

2) The case was not politicized, but considered to be a tragedy for the woman and her family. The coverage was sympathetic. I remember it well, as it was a local story - the nursing home is about 5 minutes from where I live.

[Inland]

7. According to NYT today, no. 1 is right.

Feeding tubes aren't considered the same as respirators by catholic church.

[izzie]

9. IT was all over the news where I lived but I did not recall what happened

---

[Nikki Stone 1]

11. Yes, the cases are different: feeding tubes and respirators have

different implications. It did strike me that Quinlan continued to live (and be fed) and that the church did not protest this. I didn't remember a lot of the details and wasn't sure what the church's reasoning was on this. And yes, Quinlan's comatose state made a tremendous difference to the public. No one was making the argument that she responded to anyone or was capable of any movement.

From what I have read, Schiavo is in fact able to turn over in bed or has some kind of capacity for movement. Of course, a lot of stuff is being claimed, and I don't know how much of it is true.

But like you, I remember the case as a tragedy, not an opportunity for political grandstanding. Being so close to the story, you probably got more in-depth coverage, and I appreciate your sharing that.

[karynnj]

23. The local story dealt almost as much with

the danger of the combination of prescription drugs and alcohol. There was a huge amount of sympathy for the woman and her parents. The parents throughout the ordeal came across as very caring, nice people.

[Nikki Stone 1]

26. And there was no disagreement between Quinlan family members

so it didn't get ugly.

I think the Schiavo case is less sympathetic in some ways because of the dirty family laundry that is coming out as a result of the vehement disagreement between Schiavo's husband and her parents. There is also the spectre of a 2 million dollar malpractice settlement, currently controlled by the husband, but which would be controlled by the parents in the event of a divorce. There is also the fact that the husband is with a new woman and has kids by her but will not divorce Terry. Meanwhile, the parents refuse to let Terry die, perhaps using her vegetative body to punish their son-in-law. In other words, this case isn't about the gracious Quinlans, but a more Jerry Springer type family, complete with a 2 million dollar kitty and lots of family animosity.

[DawnneOBTS]

8. This only teaches you one thing...

If this happens to yoou, make sure you are in a BLUE state so your wishes will be honored.
Thank GOD for New Jersey.

[NVMojo]

10. they are not the only ones who flip flopped on this issue ...try Bush

who did that ruling in Texas in 99 that it was ok to pull the plug on a veg who was being supported by tax dollars. Now that is flip flopping after he killed someone or more already.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Yes that is how I remember it

And I am old and I used to be Catholic.

[Nikki Stone 1]

15. What do you make of this bishop's visit? (See above?)

Do you think this is a renegade bishop or did these orders come from ROme?

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. I don't really know

but he has been around for awhile now. Seems to be friends with her parents.

[Nikki Stone 1]

20. Even if the bishop is a personal friend, his involvement is political

The Church condones what he is doing or they'd have reigned him in.

[KalicoKitty]

16. Check out this krazy kook's opinion

104317.2. Terri Schiavo is ALIVE!
by Bushmyman, 3/20/05 16:01 ET




She talks to her mother daily! The whacked-out liberal far-left anti-American media wants you to think she is vegetable. DON'T BELIEVE IT! THEY LIE! With the right care, Terri could be back at work in 6 months!


http://www.mlive.com/forums/newstalk/index.ssf?artid=885749

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. LOL

I wonder how she feels about Social Security, since she will be working again in 6 months!

[peacetalksforall]

19. With the right care...what a laugh. Wonder what the many, many doctors

who have analyzed her and the hundreds(') of caretakers think of that slap in the face.

Supposedly, her care is paid for through Mediciad - about $80,000+ a year?

[deadparrot]

28. I believe the CC differentiates between respirators and feeding tubes.

It's considered euthanisia to remove a feeding tube, but not to remove a respirator, IIRC from my religion class. We had this discussion last fall. Sick and twisted? Yeah? Illogical? Yeah. but I think that's what they say.

[Nikki Stone 1]

29. You are correct about this.

There was apparently a recent papal opinion that feeding tubes should not be removed.