Wesley Clark really did vote for Clinton, Gore, and Kerry...

[wyldwolf]

...and campaigned for Dems in the 2002 midterms...

that is a fact that I will continue to point out whether it is an uncomfortable fact for some or not.

[Andromeda]

1. Lol, lol, lol, lol, lol...

So there!:spank:

[d_b]

2. I actually did vote for them

before I voted against them.

[Texas_Kat]

3. All I can say is

:rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause:

[Crunchy Frog]

4. And Ronald Reagan really did used to be a

card carrying, FDR Democrat. When are people going to stop living in the past and begin focusing on the future. When are people on this board goint to stop trying to tear down and destroy Democrats? Does this board need to be renamed "Democrat Bashing Underground"?

[LittleClarkie]

35. or target practice for the circular firing squad

Really, man, this shit is getting old fast. We need to build bridges, not tear them down.

[WI_DEM]

5. My mom voted for Nixon and Reagan and today is as anti-GOP

as any can be--Hates (well she doesn't say hate, that isn't her way) but really dislikes the Bushes. Was strongly for Gore and Kerry and does HATE Iraq. I think she could relate well to Wes Clark.

[high density]

46. My neighbor is a self-described "Nixon Republican"...

And he still has a John Kerry sticker on his truck.

[lojasmo]

6. Yawn....

repeat ad nauseumn please....just because.

[onehandle]

7. How un-American of him.

Doesn't he know we're at war.

Why doesn't he fall in line behind our CIC?

[Mz Pip]

8. Yeah,

but he but he voted for Nixon and Reagan. Can't forgive him for that no matter what he says now. :sarcasm:

If we continue to keep looking backward we will be stuck.

Clark campaigned very hard for Kerry, but for some people that just isn't good enough. Fuck 'em.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Dinger]

18. Well Put Ms Pip - Thank You!

Well put too:)

[Adelante]

9. AND he voted for Carter

AND Carter asked Wes to run for president. :)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

12. Cheswick, he's been nothing but honest about his voting record

...we're supposed to take everyone else's word?

And I've been meaning to ask - you're so anti-DLC, why the Hillary avatar?

[Clark2008]

13. Umm... why would he lie after telling the truth about voting for

Republicans in the past? Seriously - if he was going to lie, you'd think he'd say that he voted for Carter and Dukakis, too.

Your sniping makes no sense. :eyes:

[tishaLA]

53. my condolences about Blue

[Clark2008]

57. Thank you.

I really miss him.
I'm out of work (and looking like a fiend with no luck - even looking outside my field) and it makes it tough to sit here all day and he's not here.
I still have my 13-year-old Cocker, though. He and my 5-year-old son miss our big buddy, too. :(

[Andromeda]

62. So sorry about Blue.

It's not easy letting go of such a good friend.

[Vektor]

84. I'm so sorry about your dog.

My sincere condolences.

[LandOLincoln]

23. So you believe him when he says he voted

for Nixon and Reagan, but not when he says he voted for Carter, Clinton, and Gore?

And unlike George McGovern, Mario Cuomo, Andrew Young, Michael Moore (and Howard Dean, before Wes entered the race in 2003), YOU have preternatural powers of discernment and you just know Wes is a DINO, right? :rofl: :tinfoilhat: :rofl:

[incapsulated]

50. You're right..

He's probably lying.

He really voted for McGovern, Carter, Mondale and Dukakis.

Shame on him.

[melnjones]

11. I voted for

a republican last november that now I greatly regret. (not W, don't worry, but I'm realizing this one is not far behind) I made a mistake, I had my reasons for voting one way at the time, and in retrospect, it didn't turn out as I would have wanted it to. See, the good thing about a democracy is that no single one of us gets to choose the outcome of an election, because yes, we all make mistakes.

[cestpaspossible]

14. Was that before or after the January 22, 2002 speech?

Where he said:

. "I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush,"

Who exactly did Clark campaign for in 2002?

[Dinger]

17. It's A Judgement Call, And I, For One, Will Give My General The

benefit of a doubt. He is a good man, a man who was born to be President. I am curious who you are for - it's obvious who you are against.

[cestpaspossible]

22. Did Clark really campaign for Dems in 2002? For whom?

[Clark2008]

24. Max Cleland

and he gave money to Erskine Bowles.

[cestpaspossible]

27. Was that before or after the January 22, 2002 speech

where he said:

. "I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush,"

Did Clark's admiration and support for Bush cause and friction between him and Cleland?

[Clark2008]

31. It wasn't so much "admiration" as a hope that the Bush Administration

wouldn't, as they have, screw everything up.
No one wants a president to fail and drag us all down with him. I can't stand Bush, but I didn't want him to screw up everything like he has.

[cestpaspossible]

68. His exact words: "I tremendously admire"

"I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush,"
January 22, 2002 Address at Harding University (Searcy, Arkansas)

Now you say that wasn't 'admiration'.

OK.

Kind of like how his statement in the London Times on April 10, 2003 that "Already the scent of victory is in the air." did not indicate that he thought victory was at hand and his statement in the same piece: "Let's have those parades on the Mall and down Constitution Avenue." did not mean he thought it was time to celebrate.

:eyes:

[Adelante]

48. Also in 2002, Wes campaigned for Dems

Katrina Swett and Tom Lantos.

[Dinger]

26. If You Don't Want To Answer My Question, Just Say So, And Remember...

We ARE on the same team (I think so anyway) Peace

[Clarkie1]

28. Clark's not a career politician.

He was giving foreign policy speeches at both Democratic and Republican events. The whole country rallied around the President in the short-term aftermath of 9/11. It was not a time for partisanship.

Clark puts country before party, you see.

[cestpaspossible]

30. Yeah, he's a military man turned lobbyist turned politician

those are the facts.

[Clarkie1]

32. Let's take one thing at a time.

1. Do you have a problem with those who dedicate their life to service in the United States armed forces?

[cestpaspossible]

36. I have a problem with people who get upset by the truth.

It is the truth that Clark voted for Nixon in 72... draw whatever conclusion you wish from that fact.

It is the truth that Clark voted for Ford in 76... draw whatever conclusion you wish from that fact.

It is the truth that Clark voted for Reagan in 80... draw whatever conclusion you wish from that fact.

It is the truth that Clark voted for Reagan in 84... draw whatever conclusion you wish from that fact.

It is the truth that Clark is a military man, turned lobbyist, turned politician... draw whatever conclusion you wish from that fact.

[Clarkie1]

39. I'm not upset about anything, but you seem to be. Answer the question n/t

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sparkly]

49. If I may jump in, re: the truth

It is the truth that 1984 was 21 years ago.

It is the truth that 1980 was 25 years ago.

It is the truth that 1976 was 29 years ago.

It is the truth that 1972 was 33 years ago.

It is the truth that Clark is a military man turned businessman turned presidential candidate who's strongly opposed Bush's war in Iraq, strongly supported state and national Democrats in the last election, and has the potential to dismantle every negative stereotype and lie Republicans have spent millions of dollars and 30 years setting up in voters' minds about what a liberal Democrat is.

I realize narrow definitions of "what a Presidential candidate is" or "what a President is" still exist in people's minds. And I realize you have every right to disagree with me about General Clark. You've stated your opinion. How about leaving it there?

[cestpaspossible]

65. You want me to shut up?

You've stated your opinion. How about leaving it there?

How about this instead: no, I'll continue to speak my mind as I see fit and it you don't like it, tough.

[politicasista]

66. We don't want you to get banned.

You are Kerry supporter, don't let them change you.

[cestpaspossible]

69. If you can get banned for stating simple facts then so be it.

If I can get banned just for saying that I don't want a Democratic presidential candidate who voted for Nixon, Ford, and Reagan, then I should be banned because that is my opinion, and if people with that opinion are not welcome at DU, than the administrators of DU should take the appropriate action.

[Sparkly]

67. It was just a suggestion.

:shrug:

[cestpaspossible]

71. The answer is no, I won't shut up at your request.

:shrug:

[Sparkly]

74. Not a request, just a suggestion.

If you choose to keep repeating yourself, go right ahead. :popcorn:

[cestpaspossible]

76. You're trying to put lipstick on a pig.

It is rude and presumptous to tell other DUers to stifle their opinion.

[Sparkly]

77. Can't argue there. n/t

[Tinksrival]

54. Well,

My husband was in the Army and shares the same voting record as Wes Clark along with a hell of alot of other people whom despise the republican party now. Will you be standing at the doorway to your big tent to turn votes away? You make no sense.

[Sparkly]

60. Mine too.

Except Navy.

[cestpaspossible]

72. I would not support your husband for the Democratic nomination for Pres.

However, I would encourage him to run for some lower office as a Democrat.

[Tinksrival]

79. Thats cute......

But you will not support Wes Clark as a democrat who can attract new voters? I think its time you moved on. Your not helping anyone. What is your point!?

[cestpaspossible]

87. I don't agree

I think its time you moved on. Your not helping anyone.

Are my feelings supposed to be hurt?

:boring:

What is your point!?

I thought I stated it pretty clearly, but since you apparently missed it, I'll say it again: I would never support in the Democratic Presidential primaries a candidate who voted for Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Reagan. It's not like there is a shortage of great Democrats with more solid credentials.

[LittleClarkie]

80. Alrighty then, and you keep repeating this stuff because...

Dude, really. Why do you have Clark "issues" all of a sudden?

[neverforget]

83. Talk about living in the past....

:eyes:

[Benno]

89. I voted for Bob Dole

back in '96. I hope that doesn't change what I am today or peoples view of what my political views are today.

In all honesty that was the first presidential election I was of age to vote in, and being politically ignorant, I asked my dad who he was voting for and why. When I look back on it I feel like an idiot, I admit it, but at least I can admit it. I really didn't care much about politics back then thinking that whichever party was in office had little affect on me or the rest of the country. But I see things differently now and am proud of it. I only wish more Americans could see that they can make a difference if they vote, especially the youth vote.

[Radical Activist]

90. Do you have a problem with

those who dedicate their life to public service in elected office?

That's a form of public service that can sometimes be honorable, and almost never involves killing people.

[Donna Zen]

38. It was after

Kerry, Edwards and the rest of the crew voted in the Senate to confirm them.

Of course, Wes Clark doesn't stand on stage with Operation Rescue.

Oh well...all those folks also gave bush high praise of Afganistan as well. But then again, they voted to go to war in Iraq. I know, I know,...they're ches not Wes Clark who is the only person that some chose to criticise for anything. Fortunely, Wellstone heard and quoted Wes Clark when the good senator voted against the war.

[xkenx]

61. I Repeat the "Duck Principle" for you

Ducks don't have wear signs labeling them ducks. If it has a ducksbill, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, then you know it's a duck.

Wes Clark is one of the Democratic Party's foremost progressives by virtue of his actions over the years, not by any labels that people want to throw at him simply because he had a career in the military.
It is time to appreciate just how lucky we are to have this national treasure. Just a few items:

--Clark was always butting heads with the stereotypical "macho" military Neanderthals because he saw the horrors of war firsthand in Vietnam and always espoused "diplomacy first."
--Clark was one of the leaders of the all-volunteer Army created after the Vietnam debacle. To keep personnel in you had to do a good job of providing for their family needs, health, education, equal opportunity.
--Clark actually won environmental awards at bases under his command.
--When Clark was working at the Pentagon in the mid-90s, he was virtually the only voice crying out to intervene in Rwanda.
--It was Clark's voice, along with Madeline Albright, who persuaded the Clinton Admin., over the objections of the Pentagon, to stop the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. Tell the Kosovar Albanians that Wes Clark isn't a liberal, progressive, humanitarian.
--It was Wes Clark's voice prior to the Iraq invasion who urged that we exhaust all possible diplomatic means before any military action, including in testimony to Congress.
--It was Wes Clark who filed an Amicus Curiae brief in the University
of Michigan affirmative action case.

Since when is it some kind of a black mark for someone to give to his country by serving in the military if he does so in a principled manner? Wes Clark felt that he could make the most impact by providing a progressive voice to that institution.

As for voting for Nixon and Reagan, he did so 20-30 years ago, simply because he felt they were strong on national security. Clark discovered that the modern Republican Party is so different they wouldn't have Nixon, and maybe not even Reagan. Clark evolved to where he started voting for Democrats, and then officially registering as a Democrat after registering as Independent for many years. Reagan WAS a democrat prior to running for Gov. of California. Are any Democrats wanting to say that Reagan, in his later years was a Democrat, simply because he started out that way?

So I'd have to say Wes Clark is my Democrat, liberal, progressive "DUCK" because he has proved it.

[FrenchieCat]

73. Give me the link.......

on that, cause that's not what he said. He ain't never said that about Bush. He did have one thing nice to say about Bush's dad...ya know, the OTHER George Bush in reference to working with NATO.

Now, give up the link......... or else people are going to start doubting you....and you are going to become "cestpascredible".

[Dinger]

15. Thank You - Excellent Post!

I wonder if "they" will get the point?? Somebody seems to be on a little mission here.

[cestpaspossible]

16. WHY WOULD SOMEONE NEED TO POINT THIS OUT?

[Clarkie1]

19. That's what I ask myself about your tagline. n/t

[wyldwolf]

20. Wes Clark voted for Clinton, Gore, and Kerry-

whether you like it or not its true!

:)

[Field Of Dreams]

21. Maybe because one brilliant post on this topic...

deserves another? :nopity:

[incapsulated]

43. Gee, I can't imagine why.

Can you?

[dogman]

51. McGovern got over it.

Try it , it's good for the soul.
Snip> Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark was endorsed Sunday by former Sen. George McGovern, the party's 1972 nominee. He called Clark the "best of the lot" of candidates in the race.

[LittleClarkie]

25. Hey, me too

What a coincidence.

Here, use the explanation from factchek.org. It's in the 2003 archives. They give a good explanation of Clark's evolution from Republican leaning Independant to Dem.

Clark has done too much for the cause at this point for people to doubt his intentions.

[cestpaspossible]

29. Intentions can only be guessed at.

I'm talking about the factual record.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clark2008]

40. Well said.

And, isn't the point to try and LURE more "recovering Republicans" into voting for Dems?
I have a friend who used to be a staunch Republican and voted Libertarian this time because he didn't like either candidate (no offense, LC - I'm just telliing you his mindset). However, he said he would have voted for Clark had he been on the ticket, either as Pres or VP.
He can relate to Clark having been an Independent and voting a split ticket. He can also see why Clark would vote Dem now.
We CAN evolve, you know (just don't tell the fundies!). ;)

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Thank you LittleClarkie!

I'm sick of all the Democrat attacking on a supposedly Democratic board. Is that really what the purpose of this board is? To rip Democrats to shreds?

I promise that I will step in to defend Kerry next time I see him being attacked, and Dean too. None of our Democrats deserve this kind of thing.

I simply cannot comprehend the vitriolic hatred that I see on this board sometimes.

[Adelante]

52. That's a KERRY supporter?

Thank you for your kind words, LittleClarkie. I always enjoy your posts.

[incapsulated]

56. Good god, this is a *Kerry* supporter?

WTF?

Didn't Wes endorse Kerry days after dropping out, work his ass off for him during the election, become what Kerry himself described as his "surrogate"?

Jesus.

:silly:

[LittleClarkie]

58. Indeed but please also note it's a Kerry supporter defending Clark as well

I hate this divisive stuff.

[incapsulated]

59. I understand

Just didn't expect it from that corner.

Thanks.

:hi:

[LittleClarkie]

63. Tell me about it

The Clarkies seemed to have the easiest time assimilating into the campaign. Y'all were good allies.

And right now we don't need the circular firing squad.

[incapsulated]

64. Amen to that

Maybe when the 2006 races get into full swing this will stop, or at least calm down a bit.

[Adelante]

70. Sorry, LittleClarkie

You're right. It's the anti-military stuff that shocked me more than anything. I don't expect everybody to be pro-Clark. I'd be dead by now if I did. ;)

[Clarkie1]

34. You mean that Clark voted for Clinton, Gore, and Kerry?

And is a better Democrat than you?

[Pithy Cherub]

37. Wes voted for Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry too! The facts should

be told in full, not sloppily piecemeal as some erroneously highlight for their own purposes.

[Dr Fate]

41. And Dr Fate REALLY will vote for Clark in the 2008 primaries.

And in the general election too, hopefully.

[Crunchy Frog]

44. And Crunchy Frog will too! n/t

[dogman]

45. Amen Brother!

Just give us a chance.

[autorank]

55. wyldwolf, You Go Guy, Truth, What a Strategy.

[wyldwolf]

92. that's always been my modi operandi

as much as it pains some here...

[Stand and Fight]

75. Hey! I like what you're selling!

The truth -- what a concept.
I am for both John Kerry and Wesley Clark. I don't understand the vitriolic hatred I see on this board sometimes that tears down our fellow Democrats. I saw rock on General Clark, and keep up the good fight Senator Kerry!

[Adelante]

78. I say it with you

:D

[Sparkly]

82. The truth...

Here's something I wonder: If Clark were a "seasoned politician," would he have told the truth about his voting record?

Look how honesty is rewarded. Better a truth teller, or a savvy politician? I'll take the truth teller.

[Hippo_Tron]

81. I know a guy who worked on Bush I's campaign in '88 and HATES chimp

People change their minds, especially when it comes to this administration.

[westcott]

85. Jeezis man!

Im a Republican. And all I can do is hope that you guys nominate Wesley Clark so that I can vote for him!
Do you guys get how many Republicans contacted me in support of General Clark in 2003? Hell, one of them held a house party fundraiser for him.
We are upset with the goon squad mentality that has been taking over in our government, and we believe that General Clark has the experience and understanding to get this country back on the right track.
Who voted for Reagan? Almost everybody did! Thats why they called it a landslide! General Clark was most impressed with President Reagans handling of Eastern Europe in ending the Cold War. AND he will be the first one to tell you that Ronald Reagan was succesful in this because he continued the policies of President Carter.
If you're seriously looking for someone who will look at the world through a partisan straw, General Clark is not your man. General Clark's best ability is to see both sides of an argument and find ways for agreement. Please do more research than just looking at who he voted for, thats in no way a measure of this man.

[westcott]

86. Heres one

Hi,
Would like to fund raise, and have Clark or top official here.
We have had several Presidents or
nominees here; Michael Dukakis was latest in the mid of the primary
campaign of '88.
I have worked on Bob Edgar campaigns as well as Michael Dukakis's
campaign. Their visits to our campus got wide coverage, and also
drew overflow crowds. We are 15 minutes from the airport, have
wonderful facilities for live and overflow audiences, and have
experience coordinating security and logistics.
Can we discuss when Clark might come, if not on this visit, then
perhaps the next. I am willing to work to get Ed Rendell here. Also
could form a Pennsylvania Republicans for Clark group he could
launch during a 40-60 minutes stop. Friends in that party have said
they would endorse a Dem and pay money to remove Bush. Having large
and notable endorsement group of Republicans would be a great
asset for primary and election, since electability is a major voter criteria.

This is an email I received Nov 13 from a PA college professor. I had a Clark website and he thought it was official. I directed him to Little Rock Headquarters.
Understand that Republicans will vote for Wes Clark. Even if swiftNATO veterans for truth run sickening ads against him.

[Clarkie1]

88. Thank you!

And welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Radical Activist]

91. Why would that make anyone uncomfortable?

Post #14 is what appears to make people uncomfortable.