Chuck Hagel just pissed all over the Iraq adventure

[TheFarseer]

on Face the Nation. They asked what he thought about the president's "Mission Accomplished" statement. Chuck says, "That certainly doesn't seem like a wise and mature statement. . . . We've now lost 1600 men and women in Vietn, er Iraq. . . . We've gone in with a force way too light. Many of our generals said we needed more troops at the time and they were harshly admonished for speaking out"

He refused to be pinned down on ending the philibuster or John Bolton but it's pretty clear he's no fan of Iraq.

[TheFarseer]

1. oh, i left out the best part

he said that there is much more at work than terrorist forces. There is a spirit of nationalism and tribal and religious forces that we SHOULD have known about before hand. This just in - republican says the enemy is not evil, mindless, thug terrorists. It's just people fighting for their country and their families.

[acmavm]

2. It's really hard to be a republican nowadays.. Every once in a while they

have to tell the truth when asked certain questions, because if they go along with the bush** administration line of 'everythings okey dokey' they'll look like a brain-dead moran. So they have to grit their teeth and say something intelligent. Especially if they gave their eye on the White House.

[WildClarySage]

3. Could this be the part where Repubs start doing a 180 and begin the

"this war is all the Democrats fault" spin?

[Mass]

4. He was pretty much opposed to this war.

He shared Biden's and Kerry's view of Iraq, that is that they should involve the UN or not go. He said it repeatedly before the war, but of course was dismissed by his camp.

So now he can say, I told you so.

[Dave Sund]

22. This is very true

And anyone who thinks this is a symbol of turnaround in opinion about the war isn't paying attention. Hagel has always spoken about the mistakes made in this war for the past two or three years. His votes, on the other hand... Hagel's a wolf in sheep's clothing, talking moderate so he can become President, but voting conservative to please his base.

[jean]

5. Hagel is doing the right thing on this one issue - but he needs to do more

to atone for felonious vote fraud of his own making, in his own and other election(s).

If You Want To Win An Election, Just Control The Voting Machines
by Thom Hartmann
January 31, 2003
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

snip

The respected Washington, DC publication The Hill (www.thehill.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx) has confirmed that former conservative radio talk-show host and now Republican U.S. Senator Chuck Hagel was the head of, and continues to own part interest in, the company that owns the company that installed, programmed, and largely ran the voting machines that were used by most of the citizens of Nebraska.

Back when Hagel first ran there for the U.S. Senate in 1996, his company's computer-controlled voting machines showed he'd won stunning upsets in both the primaries and the general election. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely Black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska.

Six years later Hagel ran again, this time against Democrat Charlie Matulka in 2002, and won in a landslide. As his hagel.senate.gov website says, Hagel "was re-elected to his second term in the United States Senate on November 5, 2002 with 83% of the vote. That represents the biggest political victory in the history of Nebraska."

What Hagel's website fails to disclose is that about 80 percent of those votes were counted by computer-controlled voting machines put in place by the company affiliated with Hagel. Built by that company. Programmed by that company.

snip

[OKNancy]

6. Bev Harris says... LOL

Yeah right.

There has never been any proof of wrongdoing. Zero
Every Nebraskan I've talked to says his popularity is real.
We are in big trouble if Hagel wins the 2008 nomination. I don't think he will...he's too reasonable.

[Demit]

7. Are you saying that Hagel didn't win virtually every demographic group?

Is that not true?

[Zynx]

9. And if he did?

What does that prove? African Americans have voted in majorities for Republicans sometimes under the right circumstances on a state by state basis. Besides, African Americans are only 2% of the voters in Nebraska so it is difficult to get a read on exactly how they voted anyway.

[Demit]

11. It would prove that Bev Harris was correct in that statement

and that the scoffing was gratuitous. I was directing my question to the poster just before me, Zynx. Instead of diving in to make an assumption about what I meant, try paying more attention to the thread of what's being said.

[OKNancy]

10. So what?

Nebraska is a very red state. In Oklahoma, we have more Democrats than Republicans ( 1.2 million Dems to 782,000 Republicans)and a Democratic governor, two nasty Republican senators and all but one Republican House member ( and the lone Dem is a DINO )
Democrats vote for Republicans all the time, especially in conservative areas. Nebraska is a very conservative state and Hagel is popular there with both registered Democrats and Republicans.

It doesn't mean there is hanky-panky.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dave Sund]

26. His 2002 win, certainly

Especially since, in the runup to war, he opposed unilateral action. And his opponent was just a terrible candidate.

However, his 1996 win was incredibly close and very suspicious.

[Zynx]

8. Indeed. It is not unreasonable in current NE politics that he would stomp.

In Alaska which is not as Republican as Nebraska, Ted Stevens got 79%. Jack Reed in RI got 78%. There are races where that sort of thing happens and in Nebraska it is least surprising of all.

[Eloriel]

29. Nancy, you do yourself a tremendous disfavor

if you dismiss this just because of anything Bev Harris may have said or done. Harris didn't create Hagel, didn't even discover his incredibly unusual wins -- and if you look at the stats, NO ONE wins with those kinds of stats -- 80-something percent across ALL demographics incl among Dems AND African Americans his first time out?? And the guy who just happened to have resigned from being CEO of the very voting machine company that counted a large proportion of the state's votes? Just such a wonderful coincidence, a blessing really, for Chuck Hagel. A sign from God, perhaps, that he is in the right place.

Uh, no, Nancy. He ain't that popular.

There has never been any proof of wrongdoing. Zero

Well, of COURSE not. Sheesh. Proof is something you get either with confessions (unlikely) or investigations by authorities with subpoena power who KNOW what to look for. In this case it would take a thorough and complete examination of ALL the code used on those machines, and I can't imagine that exists anymore, anywhere.

I imagine you know there's no love lost between ME and Bev Harris, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, Nancy.

[Hippo_Tron]

18. Nebraska is a DARK red state, Nelson barely got elected in 2000

Assuming the Perot vote broke perfectly even in the state, Dole would've beaten Clinton 60 to 40. Also, red states are far more likely to elect Democratic Governors than Democratic Senators.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Wow

I'm surprised! So he's not on there pumping Bush? So what's going on now? Things are strange now.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. I recognize his name

I can't remember from where though. :shrug:

[kansasblue]

15. Did Nebraska develop the E-vote scam?

And I thought I read that the main state paper is also an investor in ESS. I wouldn't expect anyone inside the state to have a very well rounded view of the problem.

So Hagel beat a popular Governor. 'upset' Held investments in the voting equipment and failed to report it.

But in Nebraska things look fine, is that what your paper told you to think?.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

16. He's got Democrat hair, so he should just come to over to our side.

:)

[kentuck]

17. I think Hagel does have presidential ambitions...

and he will be the perfect "moderate" alternative for Republican voters that are burnt out with the Neo-cons of their Party. I think he would be a formidable opponent.

[Telly Savalas]

30. 2012 though?

It doesn't seem feasible that a party can reinvent itself and distance itself from prior mistakes while still holding power. From Hagel's standpoint the best strategy would be to let the 2008 candidate suffer for the sins of Bush, then in 2012 poise himself as a "new" Republican with a fresh agenda and a campaign which can focus on perceived mistakes of the Democratic administration.

He'd be getting kind of old though, n'est-ce pas?

[hatrack]

19. And how did he vote on the IWR?

Just thought I'd ask . . .

[webjamn]

20. What is the IWR?

I'm drawing a blank.

[Dave Sund]

21. The Iraq War Resolution

He voted Yes.

[hatrack]

24. There's a surprise . . .

I can see the positioning going on now and the approach they'll take as far as slogans and campaigns are concerned:

"Hagel 2008 - He's Not Totally Batshit Crazy Like The Other Republicans"

[TheFarseer]

25. Same way Kerry voted n/t

[cestpaspossible]

23. It's gonna be fun watching the Republican primaries.

It's pretty funny to me that the media keeps focusing on our Presidential possibles and ignoring the upcoming Republican rumble which looks to be far more entertaining and bloody.

[sallyseven]

27. The repukes are going to back

Frist. he is the darling of the Conservatives. Another shit head like bush. Gualini is a womanizer and they will throw away McCain like a 2.00 whore.

[globalvillage]

28. You know...

they really should adjust that $2 whore thing for inflation.
Just sayin.
:shrug: