Kennedy's speech about the Supplemental and Real Id.

[Mass]

I know a lot of people focus on the national ID, but unfortunately, this is only one part of the iceberg. And sadly, it seems that the Dems are going to vote for it, at least Kennedy.

http://kennedy.senate.gov/~kennedy/statements/05/05/2005509A24.html


Those who pushed through these Real ID provisions continue to say that loopholes exist in our immigration and asylum laws that are being exploited by terrorists. They claim these provisions will close them. In fact, they do nothing to improve national security, and leave other big issues unresolved.

They want us to believe that its changes will keep terrorists from being granted asylum. But current immigration laws already bar persons engaged in terrorist activity from asylum. Before they receive asylum, all applicants must also undergo extensive security checks, covering all terrorist and criminal databases at the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, and the CIA.

Asylum seekers will find no refuge. Battered women and victims of stalking will be forced to divulge their addresses in order to get driver's licenses, potentially endangering their lives. Many Americans will have other problems with their driver's license. All legal requirements, including labor laws, can now be waived to build a wall. For the first time since the Civil War, habeas corpus will be prohibited. The Real ID provisions contain other broad and sweeping changes to laws that go to the core of our national identity.



But, the Real ID bill tramples this noble tradition and will be devastating for legitimate asylum-seekers fleeing persecution. It will make it more difficult for victims fleeing serious human rights abuses to obtain asylum and safety, and could easily lead to their return to their persecutors.


A major additional problem in the Real ID provisions is that it could result in the deportation even of long-time legal permanent residents, for lawful speech or associations that occurred twenty years ago or more. It raises the burden of proof to nearly impossible levels in numerous cases.

A person who made a donation to a humanitarian organization involved in Tsunami relief could be deported if the organization or any of its affiliates was ever involved in violence. The burden would be on the donor to prove by clear and convincing evidence that he knew nothing about any of these activities. The spouse and children of a legal permanent resident could also be deported too based on such an accusation, because of their relationship to the donor.

[dbeach]

1. Last Chance to stop Real ID [Natl ID

Teddy K. voting for bush war and Natl ID s..I am ashamed of him..
as a former Ma resident of 50 yrs..TK must be getting drunk or blackmailed...

Natl IDs..I can't get one DU to even sign the petition

I am afraid that the Nazi bush connections will son be reality to more than just conspiracy buffs..Bush is succeeding where Hiler,Stalin,Kruschev and Mao could not go..

complete control of the USA by international elites...

"Chance to stop Real ID

Received this in e-mail today

Citizen:

We have but a single business day and some change to stop Real ID from
becoming a Real National ID. Do we really want to have the same ID system
as Communist China? I think not.

The US Senate is scheduled to vote this Tuesday on the Real ID Act. They've
never debated the bill. Most of them haven't even bothered to read it.
Nevertheless, they're going to pass it: unless we do something to stop them.

Take immediate action:

http://www.unRealID.com

Real ID is a very, very real national identification card.

This isn't going to be easy, but we need to put the Senate on notice that if
they vote for Real ID, they're voting in favor of a National ID Card.

All the best,

Bill
··· --- ··· ··· --- ···
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin



dbeach

[happynewyear]

3. sent my senators a fax

I also wrote to them the other day re: this.

This is NOT the America my forefather's fought so very hard for!

:grr:

:kick:

[incapsulated]

2. Then it's pretty hopeless, isn't it?

If Kennedy isn't going to stand against it, forget it. They don't want to accused of refusing to "support the troops" by rejecting the spending bill.

We are fucked.

[dbeach]

4. TOTALLY and it leads to total mind controlled ..

police stateamerika ..My wife grew up in USSR..She knows the KGB watched the churches and forbid anyone from attending unless they were very old..internal checkpoints..PAPERS PLEASE..No ownership of property..no savings accounts..travel only with govt permission...
long lines for foods and necessities..sometimes not even basics were available..

How these kids gonna survive without MTV??

I took lots of drugs in 60s..maybe chip implant won't work on me cuz my neuro transmitters are disabled...

RESIST it all..

[mattclearing]

6. Damn.

That's the funniest thing I've read in some time.

[OneBlueSky]

5. goddamit! . . . when even Kennedy won't stand up to these assholes . . .

you almost want to just toss up your hands and say "Fuck it!" . . .

I mean, WHEN are the Democrats going to start OPPOSING BushCo? . . . WHEN are they going to stop being enablers for the most dangerous administration in American history? . . .

if Ted Kennedy isn't willing to stand up for what's right, then who the hell is? . . .

[dbeach]

7. Sad question...short answer is you and me..

we are the resistance..they know about eevrything but they can't break spirit and it infuriates them to no end..I will NEVER yield to bush fascism or any fasiscm cuz its a souless world without Love..without promise of tomorrow...

the busheviks are truly the nightmares that I have suffered from since I was a kid and watched the A bombs hit Japan on the old newsreels..thinking wonder if we will ever get hit...

Nightmares just waiting to happen ..that is the bush criminals..

[Mass]

8. Easy answer

Dems dont want to be casted to have been voted against the troops. Between that and rights for foreigners, the choice is quickly done.

The clearest way to see that is to see how few people here are interested by this subject. All the threads on the issue have never gone over a few posts.

[OzarkDem]

13. Suggest you read the speech

Kennedy is fighting them on it, the best he can.

Blame the R's, not Kennedy.

[OzarkDem]

9. Why Real ID won't help

A good post from Eschaton last night. This security expert reveals the flaws and fallacies of using ID cards for security. The question isn't how they work, its how they fail. Basically no ID system is going to work - people who have the funds to do so can get around them, no matter what you do.



http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/05/real_id.html

[Mass]

10. I am not concerned about innocents being deported

or people having to return in countries where their lives is in danger, and habeas corpus being prohibited.

Even if the law worked, this would be too high a price to pay to curb illegal immigration (sorry).

[OzarkDem]

11. Misunderstanding?

My post referred to all the reasons why the ID program won't work against criminals and terrorists. I don't think it has anything to do with illegal immigration, except when those immigrants are trying to commit crimes.

If you read the linked article, you'll see the author discusses a number of ways to deal with tracking and apprehending potential terrorists from abroad. ID cards won't get the job done.

[Mass]

14. No, typo

I meant I am more concerned by these provisions.

[OzarkDem]

12. You misrepresent Kennedy's speech

If you read it, it says he opposes the Real ID program.

I'd suggest you blame the Republicans for linking such a dangerous, expensive and unnecessary program to legislation that funds supplies for our military in Iraq.

Are you sure you're a Democrat?

[Mass]

15. He also says he will vote for the bill

I am not misrepresenting his position and I love Kennedy.

I am in fact blaming all the Democrats that will vote for this bill knowing RealId is in it, not only Kennedy.

My Representative (Markey) voted against it.

[OzarkDem]

16. Why aren't you

criticizing Republicans for forcing such a choice? It seems they deserve more criticism than Dems, who are trying to fight it.

Good legislators don't force others to make these kinds of choices. Trying to deceptively make it into an anti-immigration issue that can be used against Dems is very suspicious indeed.

[Mass]

17. I am criticizing the Republicans as well

The difference is that I am expecting nothing from them. I am expecting a lot more from the Dems.

You are right about what the Republicans did, but given the way the Republicans put that in the bill behind closed doors, I would like to see more backbone from the Dems.

I have criticized the Reps and this provision since before the recess, when it was stuck in the bill.

[OzarkDem]

18. Stick to criticizing R's

They're the ones in power and control the situation.

Criticizing Dems is counterproductive and does more harm than good.
But you probably already know that.

[Mass]

19. Why?

Can you go tell that to all those who criticize other dems for purely electoral goals.

At least, I have problem with an issue and am not bashing anybody as Bushlite or DLC or whatever.

I am sorry. This issue is important for me and all I am expecting from my two senators is that they do what my representative did, not vote it.

I will criticize them if I want on this issue.

[OzarkDem]

21. Go ahead

But prepare to be criticized by loyal Dems for trying to make it a Dem issue instead of a Republican one.

[Daphne08]

20. I heard the speech on C-Span and

he made it known that he detests the Real ID Bill through the tone of his voice.

Perhaps the Democrats think we can get it repealed or amended later on. I certainly hope so since I also think it is unworkable and potentially dangerous.