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DU is going to kill us all! THIS IS A MUST READ!!!

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 12:54 PM
Original message
DU is going to kill us all! THIS IS A MUST READ!!!
http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/19news03.htm

I don't know if anyone has seen this yet, but it looks like John Bolton is the least of our worries.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I thought you meant this DU, not that DU.
whew :eyes:

Thanks for this link - I was involved with a Gulf War Vet during the stage when he had symptoms, but the VA was telling him it was all in his head.

It's all so very sad. :cry:

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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. know someone also
my wife's uncle is going through same thing with va. gulf war vet, needs oxygen to breath properly, but va says gulf war not cause.
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. DU. Fundie theocracy.
We'll all die someday. I gave up hope trying to do what is best for all. Bes tto look out for me and screw everyone else over. Jesus would want that.
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Justin54B20L Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know if many of you know it or not, but DU is also used in...
many civilian applications. Such as:

Glazing for dinnerware
-Most notably "Fiesta-ware"

As yellow coloring for badges and jewelery

In porcelains
-Notably dental porcelains: Dentures, etc.

In radiation shielding material
-Like your hospitals radiation room shielding

And counterweights and ballasts for ships and airplanes
-Notably in 747 and 737's.
- The average 747 has 750Kg of DU on board, most of which are located in its tail and ailerons for counterweights.

-This is why DU contamination is present in large airliner crashes, because of the oxidation of DU due to high temperatures of the resulting fire.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Not that I don't beleive you, but do you have any links
supporting what you just claimed?
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Justin54B20L Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yes.
http://www.pdhealth.mil/downloads/Civil_Use_of_DU.pdf

http://www.emro.who.int/publications/emhj/0802_3/depleted.htm

http://www.ieer.org/reports/du/LESrptfeb05.pdf

I have done quite a bit of research on DU and its environmental and public health impacts. I also come from a unique perspective in that I have personally dealt with military DU material, resulting contamination, decontamination, and personal protection as part of my military occupational specialty.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Now I believe! That's some scary shit!
Thanks for thos links - I'll be puting those away for future reading!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Scary. POISONOUS. Shit.
:kick:
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. And there is no scientific evidence
Edited on Sat May-28-05 11:52 AM by Clarkie1
anyone has gotten ill or died from it.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
54. And never will be if appropriate studies aren't done OR they're
kept secret and hidden away, as so many of these types of studies are. But only when they're damaging, of course. (Which is most of the time.)
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. Jim McDermott to the rescue!
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ConservativeDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
63. Uranium is poisonous
Much like lead, it's not good stuff to be ingesting. It'll ruin your kidneys if you get too much of it. And you can die.

Now you're right about the birth defects - the issue has been studied, and there's no correlation between Uranium and birth defects.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Ibuprofen will do the same thing.
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Spectral Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Fiestaware thing part urban legend. Uranium WAS used in 1940s for color

(The uranium in dinner ware seems to be from the 1940s. It was used for color, not the glaze.)

http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/092/index.html#sample3


"Death on the breakfast table.

Fiestaware was a very popular brand of ceramic tableware. Before the early 1940's the orange color of it was made with uranium in the glaze (uranium was used to get the color, not just accidentally). I think it's a good thing they stopped, because this thing is hot! ....

"If you're interested in collecting radioactive things like this, this is a book I strongly recommend. Here is a comment from its author about this dish:

The Fiesta dishes may produce a lot of noise on your Geiger counter but they are not dangerous...at least not due to the uranium content. The deep, lustrous glaze, however, comes from lead and that is also a potential hazard. Both the lead and the uranium can leach out in acidic foods but lead is more readily retained in the body. The lead shielding around your Fiesta bowl is actually a greater hazard than the dish itself because of the concentration of lead and the ease with which it comes off when touched. The bountiful clicking of your Geiger counter is due to fairly weak beta emissions and doesn't penetrate the body to any appreciable depth. The glaze and your skin stop all alpha particles. The gamma activity is not significant. Radium bearing materials displayed on your website are far more hazardous and it is those items that should be meticulously sealed..."




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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. That was . . .
. . . the most disturbing thing I've ever read. I knew it was bad, just had no idea how bad.
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WalrusSlayer Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. At the risk of being flamed...
There was a lot of breathless hyperbole in the article, which set off my BS meter. I don't question that DU weapons are really a bad idea, and that the soldiers and civilians exposed are in harms way more than they may realize.

But it would be nice if some solid science was presented to back up the claims. All the article serves up is a bunch of anecdotes that don't pass the "correlation is not causation" litmus test.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. No flames here
I don't like falling into the trap of hysteria either and don't approve of 'faith based' or anecdotal or gee whiz "science". Reminds me too much of the fundie thought process. ('scientific' creationism, anyone?)

Science is what is needed to hash these things out.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. no flames here either but the embers
that were the fire (pardon my over-use of metaphor)
Uranium is not a 'good' thing for humans-
Depleted or not-
My father had his PhD in Analytical Chemistry- graduated in the 50's when one really had to sweat their thesis' and from Rutgers-

He initially poo-pooed any "tree-huggers" "knee-jerk" responses to the dangers of many chemicals and elements that began to become questionable- He worked with MANY really 'nasty' things- and the older he got, the less he 'bought' the government line- the 'testing' that was often skewed, and censored to 'not scare people'-

Would you believe he even received x-ray treatments from his father who was a MD. to treat his cystic acne??? Being red-haired and fair skinned, AND a farm boy in the 30's and 40's probably contributed as much to the skin cancer he developed, but the x-rays couldn't have 'helped'.

There is one thing i believe about radio-active elements- and that is we have NO real understanding of how harmful they truly are- and until we do ALOT of honest- if frightening, or disappointing research, we shouldn't be playing with something FAR more potentially devastating than 'fire'.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. its very simple,,,, but still scary
Radioactive materials decay. This means that they are unstable and their nuclei break apart. During the decay process they give off high energy particles and/or radiation. Some decay processes give of radiation in the x-ray range.

Imagine your body contaminated with radioactive materials. The decay process bombards your cells with high energy particles and/or radiation. Occasionally, the DNA or some area of a cell vital for reproduction will be damaged. If the cell is not killed outright, the damage could result in a cancer or some other deformity should the cell continue to reproduce.

This is what so horribly disfigures children and animals and plants whose parents have been exposed to radiation. The eggs or sperm or germ cells that create the offspring have been damaged in some way. Again, if the cells are not killed outright, the result can be a genetic mutation.



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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. i understand....
... that it is dangerous- AND that it is naturally occuring.

Living here in NH there is alot of 'radon' in our environment. Interesting side note- in our town the state blasted up a bunch of granite ledge to widen a road that was very near a lake- the rock was reduced to bushel sixed clumps and left on the embankment they had created with thier blasting. One of the fellows working there mentioned that it was not a 'great idea'- because alot of radioactive materials were disturbed when they did what they did- 2 women friends of mine, who lived on either side of the 'cut' were diagnosed with breast cancer shortly after.

Coincedence? perhaps- but why play with something we understand so little about? and make the 'assumption' that 'it' isn't dangerous-?

Chernobyl should have taught the world something.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
42. It is BS and only aimed at stirring up attention in the public
Depleted uranium is 40% less radioactive than the normal uranium you find in naturally in the ground.

The problem with it is that it is also a heavy metal, it will probably kill you not because it is radioactive but rather the same way mercury, lead, and arsenic will.

We probably shouldn't be using Depleted Uranium, but the way those crazy wacos are going, they are going to take the entire nuclear industry with them. Humanity cannot afford to ban everything remotely radioactive.
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MassLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-27-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. oy vey
This is very scary.
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. Worth a kick
Kick
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
12. you should change subject line to "depleted uranium" instead of DU
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. No it isn't.
Edited on Sat May-28-05 12:00 PM by Clarkie1
Spare me the hyperbole. Dems are supposed to be the science and reality party, remember?
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. What du you figure
is the cause of the tremendous increase in birth defects in Iraq since 1991? Or in cancer in certain areas in Serbia since 1999?
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. Here's a place to start.
Richard, who had fathered two healthy children before he went to war, was working for Lockheed in the Gulf. But he bunked in the desert with the troops--and that meant swallowing, inhaling and otherwise absorbing some very dicey stuff. According to a 1994 report by the General Accounting Office, American soldiers were exposed to 21 potential "reproductive toxicants," any of which might have harmed them as well as their future children. They used diesel fuel to keep down sand. They marched through smoke from burning oil wells. They doused themselves with bug sprays. They handled a toxic nerve-gas decontaminant, ethylene glycol monomethyl ether. They fired shells tipped with depleted uranium. Other teratogens--materials that cause birth defects--may have been present too. One possibility is that desert winds bore traces of Iraqi poison gas.(POISON IN THE DESERT and POISON IN THE AIR)

Some physicians who have treated Gulf vets believe they may be suffering from a general overload of chemical pollutants--and that their body fluids are actually toxic. (Indeed, many veterans' wives are sick; a few complain that their husbands' semen blisters their skin.) "It was a toxic environment," says Dr. Charles Jackson, staff physician for the Veterans Administration Medical Center in Tuskegee, Ala. Other doctors, while agreeing that chemicals or radiation may have caused birth defects, think the vets' ills came from a germ--an unknown Iraqi biological warfare agent, perhaps, or some form of leishmaniasis, a disease carried by sand flies.

Government scientists generally discount these theories. "The hard cold facts" are simply not there, says Dr. Robert Roswell, executive director of the Persian Gulf Veterans Coordinating Board. But one hypothesis elicits even his respect. "The one argument that does deserve further study the combination of pyridostigmine bromide with pesticides."

http://www.life.com/Life/essay/gulfwar/gulf01.html
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
17. I understand that the scientific conclusions are still "out" about DU
I read this from a DU post made by "Mioshi" a while ago.....

I'll let DU readers reach their own conclusions based on what they already know, what they have heard and researched, and what the science says:

Note....the Comments accompanying Helen Caldicott's analysis.
----------------
Thought DU readers might like to know the facts about depleted uranium instead of the mythology.

I work in occupational health and I know about depleted uranium. Attached is an editorial written by Helen Caldicott that was sent to me by friends last year who asked my opinion. I replied with my comments fully sourced interspersed throughout her article.

Helen Caldicott, October 6, 2002 (Editorial published in the Baltimore Sun)

NEW YORK -- As the Bush administration prepares to make war on the Iraqi people -- for it is the civilian population of that country and not Saddam Hussein who will bear the brunt of the hostilities -- it is important that we recall the medical sequences of the last Persian Gulf war. It was, in effect, a nuclear war.

(COMMENT: No, in effect, it wasn’t despite the best attempts of revisionist historians.)

By the end of that 1991 conflict, the United States left between 300 and 800 tons of depleted uranium 238 in anti-tank shells and other explosives on the battlefields of Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The term "depleted" refers to the removal of the fissionable element uranium 235 through a process that ironically is called "enrichment." What remains, uranium 238, is 1.7 times more dense than lead. When incorporated into an anti-tank shell and fired, it achieves great momentum, cutting through tank armor like a hot knife through butter.

What other properties does uranium 238 possess? First, it is pyrophoric. When it hits a tank at high speed, it bursts into flames, producing aerosolized particles less than 5 microns in diameter, making them easy to inhale into the terminal air passages of the lung.

COMMENT AND SOURCE: (” In 2001 the UN Environment Program examined the effects of nine tones of DU munitions having been used in Kosovo, checking the sites targeted by it. UNEP found no widespread contamination, no sign of contamination in water or the food chain and no correlation with reported ill-health in NATO peacekeepers. Thus DU is clearly dangerous for people in vehicles which are military targets, but for anyone else – even in a war zone – there is little hazard. Ingestion or inhalation of uranium oxide dust resulting from the impact of DU munitions on their targets is the main possible exposure route.” (World Nuclear Association / Information / Uranium and Depleted Uranium, page 7) WWW.world-nuclear.org/info/inf14htm )

Second, it is a potent radioactive carcinogen, emitting a relatively heavy alpha particle composed of two protons and two neutrons. Once inside the body -- either in the lung if it has been inhaled, in a wound if it penetrates flesh, or ingested since it concentrates in the food chain and contaminates water -- it can produce cancer in the lungs, bones, blood or kidneys.

COMMENT AND SOURCE: (“A recent United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) report giving field measurement taken around selected impact sites in Kosovo (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) indicates that contamination by DU in the environment was localized to a few tens of metres around impact sites. Contamination by DU dusts to local vegetation and water supplies was found to be extremely low. Thus, the possibility of significant exposure to the local populations was found to be very low.” (World Health Organization Fact Sheets / Depleted Uranium, page 2) WWW.who.int/inf-fs/en/fact257.html )

Third, it has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, meaning the areas in which this ammunition was used in Iraq and Kuwait will remain effectively radioactive for the rest of time.

COMMENT AND SOURCE: (“This second phase started in September 2001 and was concluded in March 2002 with the publication of the report “Depleted Uranium in Serbia and Montenegro – Post Conflict Environmental Assessment in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia”. The report provided additional information and reveals important new discoveries on the environmental behaviour of DU. For example, we learned that still, more than two years after the end of the conflict, particles of DU dust can be detected from soil samples and from sensitive bio-indicators like lichen. However, as the levels were extremely low, it was only through the use of state of the art laboratory analysis that detection could be achieved. Based on our findings, UNEP could confirm that contamination at the targeted sites is widespread, though no significant level of radioactivity can be measured.” (Post Conflict Assessment Unit / Bosnia-Herzegovina, page 1) WWW.postconflict.unep.ch/actblhdu.htm )

Children are 10 to 20 times more sensitive to the effects of radiation than adults. My fellow pediatricians in the Iraqi city of Basra, for example, report an
increase of six to 12 times in the incidence of childhood leukemia and cancer.

COMMENT AND SOURCE: (“Depleted uranium is not classified as a dangerous substance radiologically, though it is a potential hazard in large quantities, beyond what could conceivably be breathed. Its emissions are very low, since the half-life of U-238 is the same age as the earth (4.5 billion years). There are no reputable reports of cancer or other negative health effects from radiation exposure to ingested or inhaled natural or depleted uranium, despite much study. However, uranium does have a chemical toxicity about the same as that of lead, so inhaled fume or ingested oxide is considered a health hazard. Like most radionuclides, it is not known as a carcinogen, or to cause birth defects (from effects in utero) or to cause genetic mutations.” (World Nuclear Association / Information / Uranium and Depleted Uranium, page 7) WWW.world-nuclear.org/info/inf14htm )

Yet because of the sanctions imposed on Iraq by the United States and the United Nations, they have no access to antibiotics, chemotherapeutic drugs or effective radiation machines to treat their patients.

COMMENT: (This reflects more wishful thinking by Dr. Caldicott. Neither the United States nor the United Nations impose sanctions with medicines, drugs or antibiotics. I could find the relevant UN document to prove this, but I don’t have the time and I think you’ll believe me.)

The incidence of congenital malformations has doubled in the exposed populations in Iraq where these weapons were used. Among them are babies being born with only one eye and with anencephaly -- the absence of a brain.

COMMENT AND SOURCE: (See the above World Nuclear Association citation: “Like most radionuclides, it is not known as a carcinogen, or to cause birth defects (from effects in utero) or to cause genetic mutations.” Also, “No reproductive developmental effects have been reported in humans, but studies are limited.” (World Health Organization Fact Sheets / Depleted Uranium page 4) WWW.who.int/inf-fs/en/fact257.html )

However, the medical consequences of the use of uranium 238 almost certainly did not affect only Iraqis. Some American veterans exposed to it are reported, by at least one medical researcher, to be excreting uranium in their urine a decade later. Other reports indicate it is being excreted in their semen.


COMMENT AND SOURCE: (“The cohort of individuals, about half of whom have embedded fragments, who are being followed at the Baltimore VA Medical Center as part of the DU Follow-Up Program, represents a group of Gulf War veterans who received the highest levels of exposure to DU during the Gulf War. Although many of these veterans have health problems related to their injuries in the Gulf War and those with embedded fragments have elevated urine uranium levels, researchers to date report neither adverse renal effects attributable to chemical toxicity of DU nor any adverse health effects they relate to DU radiation (McDiarmid, 1998b). They do, however note several biochemical perturbations in neuroendocrine parameters related to urinary uranium concentrations and in some subtle neuropsychological test findings; the clinical significance of these is unclear.” (A Review of the Scientific Literature As It Pertains to Gulf War Illnesses, page 5) WWW.gulflink.osd.mil/library/randrep/du/mr1018.7.sum.ht... )

That nearly one-third of the American tanks used in Desert Storm were made of uranium 238 is another story, for their crews were exposed to whole body gamma radiation. What might be the long-term consequences of such exposure has not, apparently, been studied.

COMMENT AND SOURCE: (“DU exposes the skin to alpha, beta, and gamma radiation. In the case of short-term radiation from particulates deposited on skin, more than 95 percent of the radiation present is in the form of alpha radiation, which has a very short range and will not penetrate the dead outer layer of the skin and thus poses no documented health risk. Beta and gamma radiation from 238 U decay products can irradiate cells in the deeper skin layers. Sufficient mass of DU to create radiation sufficient to be of concern can occur with intact munitions and armor. However, DU munitions are shielded to limit emitted radiation, and thus people working with intact munitions or armor usually face little risk. The measured exposure to gamma and beta radiation from bare penetrator or armor is well below recommended occupational levels (CHPPM, 1998). As a point of perspective, to reach the occupational radiation dose limit for beta and gamma radiation, a soldier would have to hold an unshielded DU penetrator for more than 250 hours.” (A Review of the Scientific Literature As It Pertains to Gulf War Illnesses, page 4) WWW.gulflink.osd.mil/library/randrep/du/mr1018.7sum.htm...

Would these effects have surprised U.S. authorities? No, for incredible as it may seem, the American military's own studies prior to Desert Storm warned that aerosol uranium exposure under battlefield conditions could lead to cancers of the lung and bone, kidney damage, non-malignant lung disease, neurocognitive disorders,chromosomal damage and birth defects. Do President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld understand the medical consequences of the 1991 war and the likely health effects of the next one they are planning? If they don't, their ignorance is breathtaking. Even more incredible, though, and much more likely, is that they do understand but don't care.

COMMENT: (Read that last sentence again! Never let science stand in the way of a blatant political agenda, as this last statement clearly shows. The fact is, there is no science in this entire article. It’s just pure propaganda.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=93553&mesg_id=93570



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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Sorry, I'm not buying it
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Are you denying the huge increase
in birth defects in Iraq since 1991?
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I was responding to FrenchieCat
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I am not selling anything....
I am providing information.

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Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
51. you might be right to have your doubts....
"WHO ‘suppressed’ scientific study into depleted uranium cancer fears in Iraq"

http://www.sundayherald.com/40096

"An expert report warning that the long-term health of Iraq’s civilian population would be endangered by British and US depleted uranium (DU) weapons has been kept secret.

The study by three leading radiation scientists cautioned that children and adults could contract cancer after breathing in dust containing DU, which is radioactive and chemically toxic. But it was blocked from publication by the World Health Organisation (WHO), which employed the main author, Dr Keith Baverstock, as a senior radiation advisor. He alleges that it was deliberately suppressed, though this is denied by WHO."
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Nahhhh...
They'd NEVER do THAT! Jes'another disgruntled employee spreading crazy internet conspiracy theories. OK, maybe depleted uranium isn't good but it's really, really not as bad as some crazy old bat with a lib'rul agenda be tryin' to make it out to be. :silly:
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. I can't believe the timing!
I just got finished watching a documentary called, "Battleground: 21 days on the Empire's edge." It was filmed from the perspective of several different Iraqis. There is an archietect/engineer that is doing gieger counter readings on all the destroyed hardware of Sadaam's army. The Iraqi people are working in these vast junkyards of this stuff, cutting up the metal to sell, their kids are playing all around and in it and it's virtually glowing with radiation from depleted uranium.

They did an interview with the head of a local hosptial, an internal medicine physician, and he has kept records on the increased number of cases of leukimia, colon cancer and another form of cancer I can't remember. He said they have 2-4 new cases in as many weeks since 1991. The real irony of it all is the fact that our soldiers also work in and around all these radiated hulls just like the locals. No protection of any kind. The doctor stated, "The Iraqis and Americans are all victims of the American government's policy."

You know, given the fact that most Repugs speak out for "states rights," maybe this legislation that is making it's way around the country can be used against them. If enough states banned together and stood up for the citizens of their state and refused to allow them to serve where this contamination is present as a matter of the right of the state to allow no harm to it's citizens, well, you get what I'm after. There's a potential point of Constituional law that has yet to be put together. Any constitutional lawyers out there who could put this thing together? I'm a paralegal and would be willing to take some direction on how to research this issue.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. Scary stuff, if that test wasn't so expensive I would take it.
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funkybutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. Louisiana now has DU testing legislation for our troops..
HB 570 passed the Louisiana Senate last week. It passed with 35 yeas and 0 nays. The House has already passed the bill 101 yeas - 0 nays.

Now all we need is the Governor's signature.

then it goes to the Dept. of Defense...

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Good for LA! That's encouraging news.
But I won't be satisfied until it's banned from use.
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drthais Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. THANK YOU THANK YOU ADMINS
I read this post two days ago
and then got frantic becuase it was scroled away
lost in the deep

my husband wanted to see it

IMO, everyone should read this

so, thank you for having it back up
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
31. Depleted Uranium is an obscene Crime against Humanity.



ICONOCLAST: What can soldiers expect when they come home?

MORET: If they were in Bradley Fighting Vehicles, they’re coming home with rectal cancer from sitting on ammunition boxes. The young women are reporting terrible problems with endometriosis. That’s the lining of the uterus malfunctioning, and they just bleed and bleed and bleed. Some of them have uterine cancer — 18 and 19 and 20 year olds.
The Army will not even diagnose it. They send them back to the battlefields.

(snip)

MORET: Depleted uranium are these particles that form at very high temperatures. They are uranium oxides that are insoluble. They are at least 100 times smaller than a white blood cell, so when the soldiers breathe, they inhale them. The particles go through the nose, go through the olfactory and into the brain, and it messes up their cognitive abilities, thought processes.
It damages their mood-control mechanism in the brain. Four soldiers at Fort Bragg came back from Afghanistan, and within two months, those four had murdered their wives. This is part of the damage to the brain from the radiation and the particles.
The soldiers from Gulf War I in a group of 67 soldiers who came back, they had DU in their equipment, in their clothes, in their bodies, in their semen, and they had normal babies before they went over there to war. They came back, and the VA did a study. Of 251 Gulf War I veterans in Mississippi, in 67 percent of them, thier babies born after the war were deemed to have severe birth defects. They had brains missing, arms and legs missing, organs missing. They were born without eyes. They had horrible blood diseases. It’s horrific.
If you want to look at something, Life magazine did a photo essay which is still on the Internet. It’s called “The Tiny Victims of Desert Storm.” You should look at that — oh, my God, the post-Gulf War babies playing with their brothers and sisters who are normal.
Basically, it’s like smoking crack, only you’re smoking radioactive crack. It goes straight into the blood stream. It’s carried all throughout the body into the bones, the bone marrow, the brain. It goes into the fetus. It’s a systemic poison and a radiological poison.
http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/19news03.htm



He gets ear infections constantly, but he never really cries. You know how most children scream when they get earaches? Maybe he's immune to pain." -CONNIE HANSON



http://www.life.com/Life/essay/gulfwar/gulf01.html

And Life just covered the American kids.

Robert Fisk has an extensive page on Depleted Uranium and has been tracking it in Iraq, Yugoslavia, and Afghanistan. http://www.robert-fisk.com/depleted_uranium_links.htm

For horrific pictures of what this has done to the Iraqi kids for the last 15 years, go here if you're brave enough to face what we have done: http://www.firethistime.org/extremedeformities.htm




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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. The birth defects are tragic, but it's very unlikely DU is the cause.
Edited on Sun May-29-05 12:32 AM by Clarkie1
Richard, who had fathered two healthy children before he went to war, was working for Lockheed in the Gulf. But he bunked in the desert with the troops--and that meant swallowing, inhaling and otherwise absorbing some very dicey stuff. According to a 1994 report by the General Accounting Office, American soldiers were exposed to 21 potential "reproductive toxicants," any of which might have harmed them as well as their future children. They used diesel fuel to keep down sand. They marched through smoke from burning oil wells. They doused themselves with bug sprays. They handled a toxic nerve-gas decontaminant, ethylene glycol monomethyl ether. They fired shells tipped with depleted uranium. Other teratogens--materials that cause birth defects--may have been present too. One possibility is that desert winds bore traces of Iraqi poison gas.(POISON IN THE DESERT and POISON IN THE AIR)

Some physicians who have treated Gulf vets believe they may be suffering from a general overload of chemical pollutants--and that their body fluids are actually toxic. (Indeed, many veterans' wives are sick; a few complain that their husbands' semen blisters their skin.) "It was a toxic environment," says Dr. Charles Jackson, staff physician for the Veterans Administration Medical Center in Tuskegee, Ala. Other doctors, while agreeing that chemicals or radiation may have caused birth defects, think the vets' ills came from a germ--an unknown Iraqi biological warfare agent, perhaps, or some form of leishmaniasis, a disease carried by sand flies.

Government scientists generally discount these theories. "The hard cold facts" are simply not there, says Dr. Robert Roswell, executive director of the Persian Gulf Veterans Coordinating Board. But one hypothesis elicits even his respect. "The one argument that does deserve further study the combination of pyridostigmine bromide with pesticides."

http://www.life.com/Life/essay/gulfwar/gulf01.html
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. Depleted Uranium is illegal for a reason. I'm horrifed by this whitewash
Edited on Sun May-29-05 01:50 PM by Tinoire
I'm frankly horrified to see how far some people will go to pretend there's nothing wrong with it in a misguided effort whitewash our country's crimes and/or to defend Wesley Clark for having littered Yugoslavia with it. There's been a furor about it ever since NATO soldiers came home sick from DU, with a leukemia rate so high that several EU governments protested the use of DU. No amount of spinning will ever make them or the civilian populations "unsick".

These are genocidal weapons, illegal under the Geneva Convention and classfied by the UN as weapons of mass destruction, that no person of good conscience can support.

Professor Doug Rokke, ex-director of the Pentagon's depleted uranium project -- a former professor of environmental science at Jacksonville University and onetime US army colonel who was tasked by the US department of defence with the post-first Gulf war depleted uranium desert clean-up -- said use of DU was a 'war crime'.

(snip)

According to a August 2002 report by the UN subcommission, laws which are breached by the use of DU shells include: the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; the Charter of the United Nations; the Genocide Convention; the Convention Against Torture; the four Geneva Conventions of 1949; the Conventional Weapons Convention of 1980; and the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, which expressly forbid employing 'poison or poisoned weapons' and 'arms, projectiles or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering'. All of these laws are designed to spare civilians from unwarranted suffering in armed conflicts.

(snip)

Rokke told the Sunday Herald: 'A nation's military personnel cannot wilfully contaminate any other nation, cause harm to persons and the environment and then ignore the consequences of their actions.

'To do so is a crime against humanity.

'We must do what is right for the citizens of the world -- ban DU.'

He called on the US and UK to 'recognise the immoral consequences of their actions and assume responsibility for medical care and thorough environmental remediation'.

He added: 'We can't just use munitions which leave a toxic wasteland behind them and kill indiscriminately.

'It is equivalent to a war crime.'
http://www.sundayherald.com/32522


Depleted Uranium has adversely affected the health of civilians from the war against Yugoslavia to today's war against Iraq. Citing a Pentagon defense blaming it on "sand fleas" is pathetic. I'm surprised you didn't at least google and present their old "hot pepsi in the desert nutrasweet gone bad" defense.

Were there sand fleas in Yugoslavia????

Rather than aiding the Pentagon's cover-up of its horrific war crimes, I'll be siding with experts like
Dr Chris Busby and Karen Parker

Dr. Alexandra C. Miller who's in charge of the Cancer Project Summary for the Department of Defense.

Preconceptional Paternal Exposure to Embedded Depleted Uranium Fragments: Transmission of Genetic Damage to Offspring - MAR 2004
Preconceptional Paternal Exposure to Embedded Depleted Uranium Fragments: Transmission of Genetic Damage to Offspring - MAR 2003
Carcinogenicity and Immnotoxicity of Embedded Depleted Uranium and Heavy-Metal Tungsten Alloy in Rodents - OCT

=================

As Moret testified, depleted uranium turns into a infinitesimally fine dust after it explodes; individual particles are smaller than a virus or bacteria. And, "It is estimated that one millionth of a gram accumulating in a person's body would be fatal. There are no known methods of treatment."

And DU dust is everywhere. A minimum of 500 or 600 tons now litter Afghanistan, and several times that amount are spread across Iraq. In terms of global atmospheric pollution, we've already released the equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs, Moret said.

The numbers are overwhelming, but the potential horrors only get worse. DU dust does more than wreak havoc on the immune systems of those who breathe or touch it; the substance also alters one's genetic code.

Thus, birth defects are way up in Afghanistan since the invasion: children "born with no eyes, no limbs, tumors protruding from their mouths ...deformed genitalia," according to the tribunal report. This ghastly toll on the unborn - on the future - has led investigators to coin the term "silent genocide" to describe the effects of this horrific weapon.

The Pentagon's response to such charges is denial, denial, denial. And the American media is its moral co-conspirator.

http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2004/DU-Silent-Genocide25mar04.htm


It's appalling to see anyone on this web-site abet their cover-up and try to whitewash these crimes.

But what they hell, we already know what value the Pentagon places on the lives of our dehumanized "enemies". What's mind-boggling is the value some people place on the lives of our own military people.

“Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”

Henry Kissinger, National Security Advisor / Quoted from "The Final Days" by Woodward and Bernstein
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. agreed a must read, so another kick n/t
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
34. Here's a rational consideration of the potential risks by Wes Clark
Edited on Sat May-28-05 11:36 PM by Clarkie1
"To deflate this scare, those who want new testing on the subject should do it in a comprehensive, scientific way and not on the political stage.

My personal view is that, based on research already done, it is highly unlikely that anything new will show up"

<snip>

"In the case of depleted uranium, as in all radiation, you don't want the radioactive substance inside you where it does more damage. That is why we sent out an environmental warning back in July 1999 that soldiers should not be around areas where there is expended ammunition, whether depleted uranium or other munitions with a live tracer element or unexploded bomblets. When you get around expended munitions of any kind, it is dangerous.

During the Gulf War the US had some tanks shot by mistake by our own depleted uranium rounds. Some of the people in those tanks were killed, and some were not. When our investigators went into the damaged tanks to look at the effect of the ammunition, they wore gas masks because they didn't want to absorb any possible particles in their lungs.

We warned our people then to wear gloves and gas masks if they went inside a target that had been hit.

Some of our soldiers caught in those tanks hit mistakenly by our weapons during the Gulf War have bits of depleted uranium still embedded in their bodies today. We have monitored them. There has been no health impact. Not one of them has gotten leukemia. None of them has died."

http://www.digitalnpq.org/archive/2001_spring/little_risk.html

I would appreciate it if anyone could post links to additional scientific research that has been done since 2001. The article you posted has BS political propaganda written all over it, and I just can't consider the source credible based on hysterical statements like these:

"I don’t think there’s any greater tragedy in the history of the world in what they’ve done." :eyes:

As an environmentalist, I'd prefer there was no man-made DU produced (it also occurs naturally). However, I think there is an awful lot of hysteria and propaganda surrounding the hazards of DU. That isn't to say we shouldn't be concerned; it simply means we need to be rational.

Posting that "DU is going to kill us all" may be useful political propaganda for some, but it isn't a rational statement.

Try something like, "I'm concerned about DU, what are the real risks?" next time.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Frankly, I think the OP
used an effective by-line to draw attention to a VERY IMPORTANT issue!
:kick:
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Thank you - voice of reason
And I specifically used the term 'DU' in the title instead of Depleated Uranium for the reason of drawing attention from the DU community. The fact that some here are defending the use of DU has me somewhat perplexed.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-05 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
35. Very, very scary indeed.
Edited on Sat May-28-05 11:19 PM by Nothing Without Hope
Thanks for posting - next time I do suggest you say " Depleted Uranium" instead of DU, because it looked like Democratic Underground was dangerous to my health! :)
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
36. Scientific facts about DU risks from World Health Organization
Edited on Sun May-29-05 12:14 AM by Clarkie1
World Health Organization fact sheet:

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/

"Due to its high density, about twice that of lead, the main civilian uses of DU include counterweights in aircraft, radiation shields in medical radiation therapy machines and containers for the transport of radioactive materials. The military uses DU for defensive armour plate.

DU is used in armour penetrating military ordnance because of its high density, and also because DU can ignite on impact if the temperature exceeds 600°C."

<snip>

"The main difference between DU and natural uranium is that the former contains at least three times LESS 235U than the latter.

DU, consequently, is WEAKLY radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be about 60% of that from purified NATURAL uranium with the same mass.

<snip>

"Under most circumstances, use of DU will make a NEGLIGIBLE contribution to the overall natural background levels of uranium in the environment. Probably the greatest potential for DU exposure will follow conflict where DU munitions are used.

A recent United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) report giving field measurements taken around selected impact sites in Kosovo (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) indicates that contamination by DU in the environment was localized to a few tens of metres around impact sites. Contamination by DU dusts of local vegetation and water supplies was found to be extremely low. Thus, the probability of significant exposure to local populations was considered to be very low."
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
40. Thats just great.
It's a very scary article and it reminded me of an old worry.

I was in the army in Germany in 1986. At the time that the Chernobyl cloud was passing over Deutschland, I was having to ground guide vehicles in the rain. For those not up on the military habits, ground guiding is having some lesserling walk in front of a vehicle when they are moving around an area/kaserne/post. It supposedly lessens the possibility of accidents. (Unless, of course, you are the poor schmuck walking around in radioactive rain.)

Back then, I was not nearly as curious about science and current events as I am now. Even so, I knew this was not a good thing to be doing at that time.

I continued moving the vehicles to the motor pool or wherever. I do remember making sarcastic comments like "Aren't you going to tell me I look radiant this a.m.?"

Fast forward to today, 20 years later. I feel like crap. Suffering from way bad fatigue. I could list a whole slew of other maladies that I have learned to live with. Being one of millions with no health insurance, I can only reflect on my anecdotal experience and wonder.


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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Babiekins!
:cry: :hug: :cry:

That anecdotal evidence is the BASIS of scientific inquiry. :grr:
You and HOW MANY OTHERS??? Would that I were the Samantha Goddess.
We'd scope this shit out in a tinkle-tinkle-t(h)ink-POOF! :grr:



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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Your experience is tragic, and it has nothing to do with Depleted Uranium.
Edited on Sun May-29-05 11:40 AM by Clarkie1
Depleted uranium found in munitions does not form radioactive clouds of the type produced by the Chernobyl disaster.

From the World Health Organization:

"The main difference between DU and natural uranium is that the former contains at least three times LESS 235U than the latter.

DU, consequently, is WEAKLY radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be about 60% of that from purified NATURAL uranium with the same mass.

<snip>

"Under most circumstances, use of DU will make a NEGLIGIBLE contribution to the overall natural BACKGROUND LEVELS of uranium IN THE ENVIRONMENT. Probably the greatest potential for DU exposure will follow conflict where DU munitions are used.

A recent United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) report giving field measurements taken around selected impact sites in Kosovo (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) indicates that contamination by DU in the environment was localized to a few tens of metres around impact sites. Contamination by DU dusts of local vegetation and water supplies was found to be extremely low. Thus, the probability of significant exposure to local populations was considered to be very low."

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en /
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. YOU do NOT know that
in such unequivocal terms. What's YOUR agenda in defending the "harmlessness" of depleted uranium? :shrug:
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
66. Friend, I work with DU on a daily basis
Let me let you in on a few facts.

Yes, DU in its solid form is relatively harmless. A weak alpha and beta emitter, unless you are sleeping with a huge pile of DU, your skin is going to block any damaging radiation. That isn't where the trouble lies though. The trouble is when DU is put on the tip of a missle, and is blown into dust.

DU dust is a nightmare for two reasons. The first is because it is a heavy metal, and like all heavy metals, it is quite toxic. All sorts of nasty effects happen because of heavy metal toxicity.

And while DU emits only a small amount of radiation, it still emits, and when you inhale or ingest DU, that radiation is going to be hitting some very tender tissue without the benefit of your skin to block it. This is what causes cancers and genetic mutations. And getting DU or any other small radioactive particle out of your system is virually impossible, and it will keep on emitting inside you for hundreds of thousands of years.

The dangers of DU tipped munitions is real and grave. To dismiss them so cavalierly is the height of foolishness and folly. We're sadly going to be dealing this for the rest of our lives, our childrens' lives and the lives of our grandchildren. It is best that we start on this problem properly, by admitting the truth. And the truth is that there is tons of DU dust in Iraq and elsewhere that is continously being stirred up and finding its way inside of humans. This dust needs to be collected and disposed of before it is too late. And we need to stop the use of DU on our armaments immediately, otherwise we will make the world into a radioactive wasteland.
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Shrubhater Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
44. I don't get it.
What's the threat?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
47. UN Subcommission condemns DU weapons (1996)
UN Subcommission condemns DU weapons

The UN Subcommission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities passed a resolution condemning the use of Depleted Uranium (DU)and certain other weapons during its 48th session in August 1996:

"On matters concerning international peace and security, the Subcommission:

Affirmed that weapons of mass destruction and, in particular, nuclear weapons should have no role to play in international relations and thus should be eliminated;

Further reaffirmed its support for a total ban on the production, marketing and use of such weapons; urged States that had not yet done so to sign and ratify the Convention on Conventional Weapons and Protocols thereto;

Urged all States to be guided in their national policies by the need to curb production and spread of weapons of mass destruction or with indiscriminate effect, in particular nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, fuel-air bombs, napalm, cluster bombs, biological weaponry and weaponry containing depleted uranium;

Requested the Secretary-General to collect information from governments and other relevant sources on the use of such weapons and on their consequential and cumulative effects, and to submit a report on the matter to the Subcommission at its forty-ninth session."


Source: UN Press Release , 04 Sep 1996, HR/CN/755 : SUBCOMMISSION ON PREVENTION OF DISCRIMINATION AND PROTECTION OF MINORITIES CONCLUDES FORTY-EIGHTH SESSION
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #47
57. Just the facts, Ma'am.
Just the FACTS. :hi: :loveya: :hi:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
48. UN COMMITTEE ON THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD
Edited on Sun May-29-05 02:12 PM by Tinoire
Summary record of the 482nd meeting : Iraq. 13/04/99.
CRC/C/SR.482. (Summary Record)

Convention Abbreviation: CRC
COMMITTEE ON THE RIGHTS OF THE CHILD

Nineteenth session

SUMMARY RECORD OF THE 482nd MEETING

Held at the Palais des Nations, Geneva,
on Wednesday, 23 September 1998 at 3 p.m.

(snip)

3. Iraq had acceded to the Convention under very difficult political and economic conditions. The military aggression of 1991 had gravely impaired the rights of children, particularly their most fundamental right, namely, the right to life. The coalition forces, notably the American and British, had used depleted uranium-based munitions, which were prohibited throughout the world, and contravened the United Nations Convention on Prohibition or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons which May Be Deemed to Be Excessively Injurious or to Have Indiscriminate Effects. The Iraqi Minister for Foreign Affairs had described their effects in a letter dated 1 July 1998 (A/53/165-S/1998/601) addressed to the Secretary-General of the United Nations. A letter from the United Kingdom representative to the United Nations (S/1998/517) confirmed that those munitions had in fact been used. In June 1995, Le Monde diplomatique had published an article stating that the Institute for Science and International Security in Washington had estimated that the total amount of the uranium contained in the shells used in Iraq had been 300 tonnes. The Iraqi authorities had formed specialized units made up of doctors and researchers to conduct scientific and medical studies into the effects of such weapons. It had been found that uranium, which affected the blood cells, had a serious impact on health: the number of cases of leukaemia had increased considerably, as had the incidence of foetal deformities. Paragraph 23 of the report submitted by the Secretary-General to the Sub-Commission on the Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities regarding peace and international security (E/CN.4/Sub.2/1997/27) indicated, inter alia, that weapons containing depleted uranium had destructive effects which could not be measured, which lasted long after the end of a war, which caused needless suffering, and which damaged the environment. The soil, water and atmosphere remained unusable for generations. The Sub-Commission had also considered a document regarding the post-war environment in Iraq, contained in a note verbale from the Permanent Mission of Iraq (E/CN.4/Sub.2/1998/32), which revealed that numerous cases of cancer and miscarriage as well as other grave problems had emerged.

(snip)

http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/7afeec7003489bb7802567550045e27a?Opendocument

On edit: tons more of such documents re depleted uranium on the UN website.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
49. We JUST had a discussion about this last night...
It seems EVEN lifelong liberals are having a hard time believing that our government is using something they KNOW will alter the world environment as a whole. One person in particular in the group of us discussing this seems to be having a real difficult time making the leap to believing "we the people" have absolutely no value to our current leaders. Funny thing is, that person is ALSO the person that has ACTUALLY suffered serious due to exposure to DDT, asbestos, and potentially DU!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-29-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
50. I thought Skinner had grabbed a rifle and climbed the water tower.
This is scarier.

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starmaker Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
53. kick
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
56. This can't be voted to the greatest page now.
I was going to push it over to get some answers. The articles I'm coming up with by her or mentioning her date back to May, 8 2005.

I don't think she has a Ph.D.(not that she has to have one).
Here is what I found about her in a letter to her congressman.

Leuren Moret
President, Scientists for Indigenous People
City of Berkeley Environmental Commissioner
Past President, Association for Women Geoscientists
2233 Grant Street Apt. 1
Berkeley, CA 94703
Phone/FAX (510) 845-3139
<leurenmoret@yahoo.com>

Link: http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Leuren-Moret-Gen-Groves21feb03.htm


In other words, lets dig. I want to know if she is credible or not. I want to know if she is blowing this out of proportion or not.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. But it can still get kicked
WHEEE-OOOO :kick:
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
60. International Petition to Ban Uranium Weapons
Uranium weapons, often called 'depleted' uranium (DU) weapons, are manufactured from radioactive waste materials produced during the nuclear fuel chain and the production of nuclear weapons. They cause widespread and long lasting radioactive contamination of the environment. These weapon systems are radiologically and chemically toxic.

Many people - innocent civilians especially children, military veterans, industry workers - have illnesses and medical problems, which may be due to their exposure to 'depleted' uranium. In areas such as southern Iraq, where uranium munitions were used by the US and the UK, there have been reports of increases in cancers, leukemia and birth defects.

At least 18 countries possess these weapons, the use of which is contrary to existing humanitarian law.

We, the people, need to let governments and the United Nations know that these weapons can have no part in a humane and caring world. Every signature counts!

We call for your support to demand:

snip---
http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/modules.php?name=ePetitions&op=more_info&ePetitionId=3
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. More on DU
Edited on Tue May-31-05 06:43 PM by hiley
Testing of Iraq War veterans for depleted uranium exposure incomplete
Posted on 14 February 2005 by RISQ
by Dan Fahey

Since 2003, United States and United Kingdom government agencies have tested hundreds of servicemembers for DU exposure. There have reportedly been few positive test results, but publicly available information indicates that, at least in the United States, not all veterans who believe they were exposed to DU are in fact being tested.

Summary of Government Data on Testing of Veterans for Depleted Uranium Exposure During Service in Iraq, by Dan Fahey, 10 February 2005
snip--
http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=173
International Conference to Ban Uranium Weapons’ in the European Parliament in Brussels, June 2005
Posted on 23 March 2005 by ICBUW

The International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons (ICBUW) will organise an international conference in the building of the European Parliament in Brussels, on 23 and 24 June 2005. Members of Parliament and scientists will be invited to participate in a debate and in workshops.

snip---
http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=175
Depleted Uranium Weapons use has to be stopped immediately, the use of these weapons is a War Crime.

Look at the pictures on this link I provide and know this is happening to American children as well, just not in such great numbers as those of Iraqi children.

((These mid-wives are purported to have said they no longer look forward to births as.... "We don't know what's going to come out."))

http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html

"You Must be the Change you Wish to see in the world"

Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)

http://www.gandhiproject.org/project/project.html


Edited to fix links
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. depleted uranium education project
DEPLETED URANIUM
EDUCATION PROJECT
updated: 11 May, 2005
http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm
http://www.iacenter.org/images/du-703.pdf

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Thanks Hiley. Keep up the good work
Thank you for all the information you're presenting!
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