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Reason for Bush's Disastrous Poll Numbers - DEAN!!

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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 07:36 AM
Original message
Reason for Bush's Disastrous Poll Numbers - DEAN!!
Edited on Fri Jun-17-05 08:09 AM by maxrandb
IMHO Anyway. Despite some Dems saying Howard Dean should "tone-down" his speech. Despite some Dems unwillingness to "call a spade, a spade". I think that Howard Dean's tough talk about * and the Republicans is HAVING AN IMPACT on the polls.

Dr Dean is doing what many of us have prayed Democrats would do for years. He is fighting back, and most importantly, he is doing what he promised he would do....NOT ALLOW THE RIGHT-WING TO DEFINE THE DEBATE!!!

Take this whole Durbin "outrage" from the "talking shills" on Faux and Nazi Radio, as an example of how we've allowed them to define the debate. In the past, Rush, Hannity, Savage, O'Reily, Tammy Bruce, Faux News, et al, would have been able to take what Durbin said, and make it seem like he was "slandering our brave men and women in uniform". All they would have to do is repeat that "bogus" attack, until eventually, Sen Durbin played into their hands and apologized.

That was in the past! That was before the Democratic Party had a leader with backbone. By not apologizing, and sticking to his guns, Sen Durbin has NOT ALLOWED THE RIGHT WING TO DEFINE THE DEBATE.

Here's my take on it. See if it makes sense to you. If I saw a police officer beating a naked, hog-tied "detainee", and repeatedly sicking a dog on the person resulting in multiple vicious bites...I would be within my rights as a human being to say; "this is something that I would expect to see (in fact did see while on cruise with the Navy) in Lagos Nigeria, or Saudi Arabia."

Following the "framed debate" of the right-wing, they could argue that I was slandering every "brave police officer". Of course that is not the case, but since when did the facts ever matter to Hannity or Rush.

We all know what Sen Durbin meant. At least I..as an ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY MEMBER, know what Sen Durbin meant, and it is this...

Sen Durbins comments did not slander the military! I have not often felt shame as a military member, but seeing people wearing the uniform that I wear, abusing prisoners...THAT IS THE SLANDER of the military.

The only people slandering the military are the individuals that committed disgusting acts in Abu Grhaib and GITMO, and the leadership in this administration that either allowed it to happen, ordered it to happen, or wrote policy so ambiguous, that they knew it was going to happen.

Senator Durbin is right to point out that in the America I know and love, this type of behavior is simply not acceptable.

Keep fighting Dr. Dean! Keep fighting Senator Durbin! Some Dems are learning that if you apologize for the truth, you've allowed evil to win.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Why does Dean hate America?
Seriously, GO HOWARD GO!!!

:woohoo:
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Nobody loves him but his mama.
Or so says the Big Dick.

I don't know if Howard Dean deserves the credit for Chimpy's plummeting poll numbers, but at least it's proof The Doctor is doing no harm to the Democrats, despite what the MSM keeps saying.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dean is murdering the rethuglican party from the inside.
he's totally brilliant.
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dean and "Progressive radio"
the "left wing noise machine" is running full steam.. (Media matters moveon.org, air america)
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indigonation Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. A possible Dean strategy...
I was never a true Deaniac, but I know the guy's brilliant and has to know what he's doing. What if he's the lighting rod target for the GOP, so that the other high profile people like Hilliary, Pelosi, Reed look more like moderates in the public eye. Nobody will be voting for Dean in any upcoming elections, so they can kind of throw their anger at his end of the spectrum instead of the entire party.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. Also - RELIGION!
I don't think the 24-7 religion propagandizing done by and on behalf of this government is resonating with the public.
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SouthernDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. That is wishful thinking. The numbers were down before Dean start
getting press. Poll numbers are a result of the war and other issues. Dean has nothing to do with it.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. They (the Poll Numbers) were not as bad as they are now.
But again, IMHO.
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. You're not serious are you?
Bush has been under 50% for quite a while now.

Dean has nothing to do with the fact that the American people do not support the Bush SS plan.

Dean has nothing to do with the American people's increasing dissatisfaction with the Iraq war.

Dean has nothing to do with the American people's dissatisfaction with the economy and gas prices.

Do you really think that people gave Bush low ratings in these areas because Dean said (paraphrased) that Delay should go to jail, that Republicans are the white Christian party and that a lot of Repubs haven't seen an honest day's work?

Those statements are made to arouse the anger of the base, not to influence the mushy middle.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'm Definitely Serious
And I will give you what to me is a telling sign.

Anytime that Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh say they "are glad" Howard Dean is the DNC Chairman, or try to tell Democrats how to "run the Democratic Party", I take that as a sign that Howard Dean is doing something right.

When I hear them protest so much, I always remember what my Grandmother used to say.

"Those that yell the loudest, are usually yelling out of fear"

Again though, as I said in my original post, IMHO.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. My brother is part of those souring numbers
Edited on Fri Jun-17-05 08:34 AM by TayTay
and he has no idea what Dean is doing. He hasn't thought of Dean since last March. (He is just a regular American and not a political junkie.)

These are the people that * needs to be afraid of. They are the ones who gave him the benefit of the doubt and also believed that he should be given the chance to finish what he started in Iraq. These are the ordinary Americans who are neither dumb nor brain-washed. They believe in their neighbor's kid who is serving in Iraq and want to see that kid come home relatively whole and soon.

* is screwing up in the eyes of those people. While Gov Dean is doing a good job, his rhetoric is heard mostly by committed Dems or Rethugs who then argue over the meaning of it. Ordinary Americans couldn't care less about this. They care about the fact that not enough kids are coming home quickly, that the toll of the dead is rising and that appears to be no end in sight. That's why the poll numbers are tanking.
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. And when they call Hillary "Hitlery" does that prove that Hillary
is doing something right?

Or does it only work when they are trashing Dean?

Do you know that they actually trash Dems EVERY day?
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Nope! I haven't Been Living Under a Rock for the Past 20 Years
I am fully aware that they trash Dems everyday, but I am also observant enough to recognize that their criticism of Dean is more vitriolic and pointed.

I think they are afraid of the good Doctor, and I think they have good reason to be afraid.

Anyways, it makes me kind of wonder why you seem so intent to change, what I said from the very beginning, was "My Humble Opinion". Do you have something against Dean?

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Republicans are White Christians"
The Republican Party spent an entire week sputtering and stammering and trying to convince people that they weren't just a pack of Aryian Religious Zealots. Dean defined them, and that forced the Republicans to play defense for several news cycles.

See how that works? Clearly Sen. Durbin has learned something: If you punch them in the head, they fall to the ground and have to get back up.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. Bush's low numbers due to his own screwups and arrogance
But Dean and other Democrats pointing out the obvious may well be speeding up the race to the bottom.

Silence = consent.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. While Dean isn't the only reason, he sure knows how to push
things along. He knows where and how to go after the rifts in the party, and he also knows that some of them know--including Bush himself--that the party has been hijacked over the last 20 years.

All he does is raise the truth, and they think it's hell, as he always says. It seems to be contagious.

Although the Republicans like to chastise Dean and make him into a monster, note that Chimpy himself did a "Dean" (he didn't really because he can't) the other night during his fundraiser speech--the event at which the porn queen appeared. He rhetoric was fiery, and his base said things like, "Take THAT, Dean," etc.

Other Dems have picked up on this and have learned that it's OK to tell the truth. Dean believes in the goodness of the American people. He doesn't believe they're stupid, and he knows that they will see the dishonesty for what it is, and that they will see the rabid right for what it is as well. The cumulative effect, I'm convinced, has contributed to Chimpy's demise and will continue to do so.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Dean is closer to the facts then Limbaugh-Hannity could ever be
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Village Idiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
15. RIGHT ON!!!
Take the FIGHT RIGHT TO THE BASTARDS, and FRAME the DEBATE PROPERLY.

Make them squirm - confront and continually contradict them with THE TRUTH. CALL THE LIARS WHAT THEY ARE TO THEIR FACES.

And NEVER STOP.
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Broken Acorn Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
18. Dean is putting the nail in the coffin
of the * Admin.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. A much better explanation is -- BUSH
Edited on Fri Jun-17-05 11:02 AM by Jack Rabbit
Bush and this lieutenants have made more false statements than true ones since taking office. One might think that a sorcerer put a spell on the regime such that no member of the executive branch can make a truthful statement containing the word Iraq.

That's caught up to him now.

People like us evil DUers were never willing to give Bush the benefit of any doubt; as far as many of us are concerned, he isn't even really president. However, most people are willing to give the president the benefit of the doubt and, unfortunately, got over the election theft a long time ago. Even the worst corporate/political corruption since the Gilded Age didn't phase the public. The violations of the rights of POWs made many people uncomfortable, but they willfully went into denial about the sinister role regime members, including Bush, played in it.

The Downing Street documents have changed that. The evidence is simply too stark to ignore by anybody except those in the regime. Many with doubts were willing to "support" Bush because he was the commander-in-chief while American troops were in combat. Now there is simply no getting around the fact that he put those troops there unnecessarily and without justification; he knew the case was thin and he and his lieutenants fabricated facts and dissembled intelligence reports in order to gain public support and Congressional authorization for the invasion of what turned out to be a disarmed nation. People can no longer deny that Bush lied to them and squandered precious military resources on a poorly planned misadventure.

In addition to Iraq, The New York Times reports this morning that Bush's plans for Social Security have been largely rejected by the public; support of Bush's proposals, which were never overwhelming, are dropping into the mid-twenties. Americans realize that Bush is being alarmist about Social Security. Yes, there's a problem, but we have time to come up with a better plan to fix it than one that involves privatization. There is no reason to pass a bad plan when there is still time to come up with a good one. Mr. Bush's plan has less to do with making sure that workers enjoy Social Security benefits in the future when they retire than with making sure his corporate cronies can enjoy them now.

Congressional Democrats, thankfully, are in a feistier mood than than they've been in for a long time. Instead of rolling over and dying for Bush, Senator Boxer rightly challenged the veracity of Bush's nominee for Secretary of State, Senate Democrats will not stop debate on a clearly unqualified nominee to be Ambassador to the UN and the Honorable Mr. Conyers held hearings yesterday about the implications of the Downing Street documents in which a resolution of inquiry, the first step toward impeachment, was openly discussed.

This is happening because Congressional Democrats realize that there is nothing for them in supporting Bush. They did that for four years and lost ground. If Bush is right, why vote against him? If the opposition party isn't opposing his policies, then he must be right. It wasn't opposition; it was a disastrous strategy of collaboration and capitulation. At the grass roots level, Democratic activists were frustrated to see members of a party they believed were to protect them from Bush's infringements on civil liberties vote for the Patriot Act and to give Mr. Bush authority to go to war based on what those of us who look beyond the US corporate MSM knew to be falsehoods. We were tired of DLC CEO Al From lauding "Blair Democrats" for supporting Bush's immoral war and resented his foolish attempts to read the base out the party. Al From hasn't sat down and shut up, but it doesn't matter; no one is listening to him now. The DLC's day is passed.

Howard Dean's elevation to chair of the DNC is a reflection of the party's new willingness to listen to its grass roots rather than its corporate elitist wing. Dean isn't perfect. His attacks on Republicans could be better stated if they were targeted toward specific voters who have favored Republican candidates in recent years; for example, instead of saying "Republicans don't work for a living," he could have said "Republican policies favor the rich at the expense of the poor and Republican candidates do not deserve the support of poor rural Americans that they have enjoyed in the last twenty-five or thirty years; we Democrats can do better by these people and they should vote for us."

Dean's real power is in his ability to raise money directly from the grass roots via the Internet. This has liberated Democrats from the need to raise money the same way the Republicans do from the same type of source: wealthy donors who contribute large sums at one sitting. This money did not come without strings. While it kept the Democrats competitive, it watered down their message. Republican-like fundraising techniques led to Republican-lite positions on issues. A pro-corporate message is ill-suited to the party of working people whose greatest historical triumph is the New Deal.

However, none of this would have happened if Bush really had the mandate he claimed, if he had fought an honest war on terror against Osama and al Qaida rather use the September 11 attack as a smokescreen to invade an oil-rich nation for the benefit of his cronies, resulting in a quagmire, or if his fiscal policies were wiser than just finding how much money in the pockets of working people can be made upwardly mobile while trashing the worker himself.

In addition, Bush is not merely another conservative president, with a disagreeable pro-corporate agenda, as was his father or even Reagan. We've survived that sort of thing before and we would be in better shape now if Bush were no worse than that. Bush is a genuine threat to American democratic institutions. He is a tyrant who holds himself above any law, national or international. He seized power after losing an election; he lied to gain support for an unnecessary war whose best excuse appears to be providing opportunities for the war profiteers who foot the bill for his rise to power; he has winked and nodded at white collar crime and, with the help of allies in Congress, transferred a large budget surplus to his wealthy friends through excessive tax cuts; again with the help of his allies in Congress, he has pushed legislation that undermines the American system of civil liberties, makes policy decisions aimed at keeping his political allies from the private sphere in control of mass broadcast media and uses public funds to produce propaganda supporting his policy initiatives, drowning out any meaningful dissent and public discussion. America no longer resembles the democratic republic envisioned by Jefferson as much as it does a banana republic in which wealth is maldistributed and the government corrupt and repressive.

Bush has created an environment ripe for a populist uprising. That is what he has on his hands. The removal from power of Mr. Bush and his lieutenants and to see that they are punished for their crimes should be the proper goal of this populist movement.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. It takes someone to publicly state what people intuit but
don't want to say out loud for fear of being 'out of the mainstream' or 'inappropriately critical of our leader in a time of war'.

Everyone, and I mean everyone has some at least subliminal thoughts along the lines of what Dean is saying.

By saying the 'unmentionable' out loud, Dean does this country a huge service and is helping to make it 'okay' to criticize the Emporer Chimp.

It is the same thing that catapulted him from nowhere to the front runner in the primaries until the DNC took him down.
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. It is a comfort to me that the MSM does not have a DNC Chair to...
... turn to to "moderate" what some of the more gutsy politicians are doing.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Iraq.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. I think Dean should get some credit...
But many things are leading to Bush's decline...
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