To hell with politics

[sophist]

These people who are no different than the corporate elite, find ways to divide us and get us to vote against each other while they decide who is going to be the next president. We have intercene discussions and complicated arguments to fool the populace. It is time we took this country back. The extremes of the left and right may never be able to come to consensus, but the rest of us can.

I am tired of the same old arguments year after year. The left has theirs, living breathing argument, and the right has theirs, Adam and Steve vs. Adam and Eve. All of them are useless talking points that they use to distract us while our liberties are being stole ie the Patriot act II now and Real ID. It is time to quit participating at all, for what good is a democracy where the populace refuses to participate.

[Peace Patriot]

1. Oh, I disagree that "the populace refuses to participate."

I think they participated big time on November 2, 2004, and thought they were throwing these criminals out. And had their votes stolen, big time--with Bushite controlled electronic voting machines using secret, proprietary software.

The answer to the stink in Washington DC is to restore our right to vote--by throwing Diebold, ES&S and brethren out of the election business NOW--or at the least achieve some measure of election transparency with paper ballot backups, no secret programming code and strict auditing. The only place where we can get that done is in state/local jurisdictions, where the authority over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some say. Don't let the powers-that-be silence our voices on election reform! See the DU Forum "2004 Election Results and Discussion" for information and action ideas:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

[Gregorian]

2. It's not a perfect world,

but you can't stop trying.

(And maybe our words will preclude the need for guns.)

edit- Plus, if we get the Fairness Doctrine reinstated, we're on a new track. One thing at a time. And it doesn't happen fast.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vickers]

4. It would make the vote rigging a helluva lot simpler

:eyes:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vickers]

6. "waist" my time?

Yeah, um, welcome to DU yadda yadda yadda...

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vickers]

9. Ewe make know cents!!! Eye no eurtype!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ChiciB1]

17. Hey Vickers....

He STILL doesn't get it! Ewe tareyed!

:rofl: Now smack your hand, you so bad!

[ChiciB1]

13. THIMK....

He/She DOES make sense! You just have to look closer!

[welshTerrier2]

7. the left has theirs?

what does that mean?

one of the arguments "the left" makes is that our civil liberties have been badly eroded ... this would include the Patriot Act and Real ID to which you made reference ...

are you "tired" of hearing "the left" fighting against global warming, the pollution of our air and water and the disregard for our natural resources so that profit-oriented ventures can reduce their costs?

are you "tired" of having "the left" fight against the corrupting influence of big money on our political process?

are you "tired" of "the left" fighting against US imperialism that sits at the heart of US foreign policy?

are you "tired" of "the left" fighting against racial injustice and discrimination in its many other forms?

are you tired of "the left" fighting for economic justice for workers?

whether "the left" has been successful or could be more successful is a topic well worth discussing ... but to say these issues are just "useless talking points" when so much is at stake is absurd ...

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[welshTerrier2]

12. what a pathetic response !!

what are you even doing on a political website?

first of all, you failed to answer even one question i raised in my post ... we might call your response: unresponsive ...

secondly, you claim i am guilty of something because i, as a citizen, have opinions on the issues ???!!! i guess it must be a bad thing to have opinions on the issues ... i assume that you've risen above this "defect" ...

btw, since you've convicted me of being just as guilty of the right-wing politicians i accuse, did i accuse right-wing politicians of anything???? ... or did you just come in here with an attitude?? where are your facts, sonny?? maybe before you make accusations you should make sure you've done your homework ...

you asked whether i think i'm going to change your mind ... you've already made it clear that you're too tired to reason with ... and i don't waste my time with people who don't want me to impose on their "care space" (whatever a "care space" is) ...

since you're so bored with politics, perhaps you could just answer this one little question: what the hell are you doing here?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

18. I understand your cynicism, but it's not a loaded question, because:

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oversea Visitor]

11. Hello

:hug: Keep talking you make a lot of sense. Politic is the great divide here. US is burning while everyone is happy politicking.
Wonder who is the puppet master hey.

[ChiciB1]

14. Just Curious....

You're from Malaysia, what about DU caught your attention??

This isn't a "trick" question, or any type of taunt. Just curious.

[Oversea Visitor]

23. Hey

Me people too
Trend in US not good
Rise of Corporation and interference in the government by corporation DANGEROUS for ordinary people.
US lose battle we all the world people very very seriously fuck.
You first line of defence, we pathetic second line of defence get steamroll easy hey.
World changing very small now, globalization, multinational corporations very powerful. Money talk poor people walk.

Me not Republican or Democrats just plain joe vote for good leader get bad one get screwed bad.

All action by present administration point to Corporatism of the Government. That is scary shit.

[ChiciB1]

24. Hey, I Agree That This Is Scary Shit!

I've been living it for some time now.

But haven't you put all your eggs in ONE basket?? That of America?? I recall a completely different America from the one I see today. And the so called leader of this nation is corrupt and greedy!

The analogy money talks, shit walks is most certainly true, and that money is also SUPPRESSING democracy. Corporatism, Capitalism, Monarchy... call it what you will, it's happening big time now!

But my question to you was, "what was it about DU that caught your eye"? Why do you want to be "here" or do you just surf all over?? I don't have a PROBLEM with it, and it would be nice if it's because you think that we here are more balanced than other places.

As I said, I'm JUST CURIOUS!

[Oversea Visitor]

25. Ehhh

to your question.... where else to go
Freeper site don't make sense hey all brain dead
Here braincells still very healthy hey
Yeah I surf all over need info for myself to understand what future hold.
Got lots of free time on hand ... semi retired
Already at top of food chain :evilgrin: sit on Board of Directors of Private Limited Companies.... very boring.

Here lots of juicy news, lots of workers bee going all over places posting news here.... gee me lazy :)

Anyway lots of nice people here don't mind helping good people like Scott (Kephra) or Andy ( GBnC ) heh heh

Me neutral on politic but confirmed chimp hater x(
Confirmed believer Iraq Afghan war illegal x(
Confirmed believer 2000 and 2004 election fraudulent x(
Confirmed believer Lady Liberty being badly abuse hear scream even from here. x(

[omega minimo]

27. "Online games"

Yore catapult is shoeing

:evilfrown:

[Oversea Visitor]

28. Hahaha

WoW, Doac, Superhero, which one hey no guildwar,

[omega minimo]

29. Errgh

Be careful. You're one Charlie short of a Chan

[Oversea Visitor]

30. Me Charlie Chan

hey.....Why need to becareful....:hide:

[omega minimo]

35. Homey

don't play dat

:kick:

[Oversea Visitor]

31. Hey

If I let fear silence me then I deserve the dish she dished out to me.

[omega minimo]

34. How

did you fit through the dog door?

What's that you're eating!?

[ChiciB1]

36. Okay... Thanks For Info

I had to go to bed... it was getting very late here. Glad to have you, and I agree with your views!

[rman]

37. "happy politicking"?

Most people here are distressed about the way things go in politics these days, where did you get the idea people are happy with it?

And how do you think ignoring politics will solve anything? If anything, it's the RW that would want us to not interfere with politics, so that they can go about their business unhindered.

[The Jacobin]

16. Sigh.

Let me guess. You're a ninteen year old who just got a taste of anarchism at your college campus and have become a raging nihilist.

Go :beer: until you :puke: a few times. You'll feel better.

The world turns on just a few percent of the population being persuaded by those "useless talking points."

Refusing to participate just means you'll get run over and you had no say.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Jacobin]

20. Well, welcome to DU

I hope you continue to vote and be active for many more years to come.

[brentspeak]

21. I second that

Sophist, I don't blame you for being cynical. Despair sometimes is an inevitable injury inflicted by the political wars. But it's nothing new; probably been that way since ancient Greece. Positive things sometimes happen, too.

[omega minimo]

26. Here's a thought

Go to the Freepug hive, find the Queen and tell her:

"It is time to quit participating at all, for what good is a democracy where the populace refuses to participate."

She will instruct the drones.

[cry baby]

32. I won't stop participating, that would mean submission and I won't do that

[rman]

33. reclaim politics

It is supposed to be and once was "governance by consent of the governed", "government by, for and of the people", "self-governance". It's not that bad as long as the checks and balances that those who are beholden to corporate interests (both on the left and the right) are always trying to remove, remain in place.

btw sophism is nothing to be proud of;

Definition: Sophism was a philosophy that started around the fifth century B.C. and was made famous by Plato, Aristotle, and Aristophanes. Sophists were looked down upon, by these three, as teaching anything for a price. Their teaching was practical instead of ethical and they emphasized rhetoric rather than virtue. In The Clouds, Aristophanes mocks the sophistry of Socrates, who is elsewhere not critiqued as a sophist. Sophism was thought capable of perverting the truth because the sophists taught students to argue any side of an issue. Despite the detractors, for a short time, sophism was well paid and regarded, and sophists held certain civic privileges.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/philosophy/g/sophism.htm


In traditional logical argument, a set of premises are connected together according to the rules of logic and lead therefore to some conclusion. When someone criticizes the argument, they do so by pointing out either falsehoods among the premises or logical fallacies, flaws in the logical scaffolding. These criticisms may be subject to counter-criticisms, which in turn may be subject to counter-counter-criticisms, etc. Generally, some judge or audience eventually either concurs with or rejects the position of one side and thus a consensus opinion of the truth is arrived at.

The essential claim of sophistry is that the actual logical validity of an argument is irrelevant; it is only the ruling of the audience which ultimately determine whether a conclusion is considered "true" or not. By appealing to the prejudices and emotions of the judges, one can garner favorable treatment for one's side of the argument and cause a factually false position to be ruled true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophism