Interesting day at the University.. who the Repugs fear most

[ShaneGR]

As some of you know, I'm an Applied Politics Major in Ohio.. graduating in May. So I get to talk with a lot of political people, Democrats and Republicans. Today I got in a conversation with a group of R's, who are closely watching who we nominate.

For the longest time I was a Clark guy, always thought he was our best choice to beat Bush.

Four things have become clear, according to them:

#1: They're praying Dean has a strong showing in NH. To them, he's an easy victory, and I tend to agree.

#2: Kerry is viewed as a formidable opponent. Although they seem to think he can be easilly labeled as a NE liberal, and they get most excited about picking up Senate seats because they don't think he can campaign with southern or midwestern Democrats and stand a chance.

#3: They seem to believe that Clark isn't the candidate they thought he was going to be. Too wishy washy on the issues with just enough dirt to hammer him in the electorate (I tend to view Clark as just as formidable a candidate as Kerry).

#4: They're absolutely terrified of John Edwards. Mainly because of the southern background, smooth talking, and his ability to gobble up the women's vote. They also think he is their worst nightnmare because he can campaign easilly with Democrats across the country, including soon to be close Senate races in Georgia and SC. I agree with them.



Thoughts?

[AP]

1. When are you going to donate to Edwards via the link in my sig?

That's the only question that I can think of after reading that post.

[ShaneGR]

2. FINE!

I'll give $25.00, right now.

[AP]

9. LOL.

Thanks.

[ShaneGR]

12. You just reached your goal

I want a friggin bumper sticker. Actually, I want as many as you can send me!

[AP]

16. You're a student!!!!????

I think I got four or five stickers I'll send you. PM me an address.

You're my second $250 donation from DU, and the third over $200.

That must have been quite a conversation you had today!

[cheezus]

17. not until he wins the nomination

But the eventual nominee gets back payments that I withheld during the primaries :)

[mopinko]

3. Thoughts? yeah

republicans are stupid. democrats who let republicans pick their candidates are part of the problem.

[Frances]

7. Democrats who deliberately ignore

winners are stupid.

That said, I'm for ABB.

[AP]

10. Like Dems didn't pray for Goldwater nomination!

[cally]

4. I think Edwards is a natural politician

He is smart, articulate, charming, and sincere. Democrats are crazy if Edwards does not play a huge roll in this campaign. Add his smart wife and the two adorable young kids, and he is a formidable candidate. I don't think he should be the Presidential candidate since he is inexprerienced on foreign affairs.

I think Clark has had stumbles this campaign but is improving. He is also formidable with his resume, looks, family, and background. I'm sure he will beat *

[Hav]

14. .

I think Edwards is a perfect politician (no negative implication here), can hold great speeches,gets the perfect connection to the audience and talks about the things I want a Democrat or Liberal to talk about.If his promises/visions could be made real,it would be quite great I guess.
He would make Bush look really pale.
(Can't listen to that speech with "I beat him,I beat him again,I beat him again..often enough.)

Clark's appearence doesn't seem so experienced, which is understandable,yet whenever I see him,I have the feeling that a honest person is speaking and I think people like that.
Of course that is only personal perception.

[lancdem]

5. I like Edwards, too

and I tend to agree that Clark has had some difficulties, though I'm high on him, too.

[LEW]

6. Thoughts

I think they are right. Edwards would be a nightmare for Bush, I'll say it again, Edwards has impressed me from the beginning and I think he can be beat Bush....

[many a good man]

8. What's not clear is whether

we're going to beat Bush* by

12%
10%
8% or
6%
of the popular vote.

[AP]

13. The party that appreciates what's at stake and leaves as little to chance

as possible will win.

The Republicans know what's at stake (billions in profits for a small group of people). By trying to help Dean, they're leaving as little as possible to chance.

Democrats need to be smarter than that.

[Democrats unite]

11. I stopped reading as soon as I read you are a...

"Applied Politics Major". I get enough politics I want what most Democrats want a good honest man. You can take you applied politics... On the other hand I wish you well in your studies. I am tired of applied politics that is what Clark & Dean are all about.

[AP]

15. Yeah. Let's ignore the opinions of people who care enought to inform...

...themselves.

[Skwmom]

18. Republicans aren't stupid.

They have their marching orders - say that you fear Edwards the most. Yeah right.

On edit: If they truly feared Edwards do you think Bill Sneiders and other RW whores would be talking him up?

[AP]

19. Yes, seek out people who might post anonymously on the net and lie

to them and hope that what they hear they'll post and influence hundreds of people.

If I were a Republican I'd think and do the same exact thing. I'd be praying for a Dean nomination.

And who can deny that what sgr2 describes isn't exactly what happened to Clark. He was the one to be the most scared of. They attacked him. Clark has not been able to command the debate.

And Edwards? They've attacked him the only way possible. He's inexperienced and light weight. And he's dealing with the spin incredibly well.

Dean and Kerry too -- everywhere in the media, you can see exactly these attitudes played out.

It's not rocket science deciphering this stuff.

[faithfulcitizen]

31. exactly....

and that's why they've been attacking Clark from the beginning, middle, & end, regardless of whether or not he's the "frontrunner".

http://www.wewantwes.com/wesismore.htm

[Awsi Dooger]

20. Let me be blunt: if it's not Edwards I will bet on Bush

And collect. I will feverishly root the other way, just like when I wager against my alma mater or favorite teams, and pray to sacrifice thousands($). But as someone who gambles for a living this is not even a tight handicap.

Kerry is the safe and credentialed but uninspiring choice, as I wrote here last February just good enough to get you beat. Nominating him over Edwards is like the jockey who opts to ride the solid but unspectacular workhorse in the Kentucky Derby, bypassing the lightly raced, ideal-conformation freak from another barn. No guts and no roses.

Frankly I'm glad Dean imploded, as much as I respect him and would eagerly sign up for 8 years. You want the roof to collapse before signing the paperwork, not later.

[AP]

23. Donations are coming in fast a furiously -- up to $975 now.

sgr2's post has had a huge impact on people, it looks.


There are some hard truths in that post.

[JaneQPublic]

21. "Gobble up the women's vote"?

Did they really say that? If so, they are too utterly clueless about women, politics, or anything else to be taken seriously.

[spooky3]

33. and this is news to you, Jane? :-)

[mzmolly]

22. #1 is clearly wrong if you hold the Rethugs accountable for Push Polling

in Iowa.

So was it the Rethugs or Kerry? I think they fear any of the top 4 candidates, as they should, however they have made it clear, they fear Dean the most. He is the only candidate that will permanently promote change, giving our Government back to the people.

[Victor Wong]

27. They do NOT fear Dean. Gimme a break.

He self-destructs every week.

[mzmolly]

41. Then it was Kerry that did the push polling? Dean doesn't self destruct

he's held up under enormous scrutiny/pressure/bullshit media attacks. NO other candidate would still be in this race under the circumstances.

[bushwakker]

24. GOPers are praying for Dean

I don't know if they are right or wrong - but they want to run vs. Dean.

[rocktivity]

25. This is why the choice of VP is so important

If Kerry picks Edwards, or Dean picks Clark (or vice versa), all four of the problems you mentioned are solved.

rocknation

[AP]

26. A big sign that Bush was going to steal election: pick Cheney.

That, or it's an indication that the selection of VP doesn't have THAT much influence on the way you're campaigned against.

[pacifictiger]

30. If everyone buys into

"conventional" strategy it will continue to be politics as usual. I'm still strongly in favor of Dean for the following reasons. If you buy into the "Kerry & Edwards have the image" thing, then you are still fighting the image makers of Bush on their terms - and we all know that he can portrays the touchy feely image really well especially with so much media help. Really hard to overcome that and I'm not sure if either Kerry or Edwards can do it with the limited pizzazz they have. If you want contrast Bush with substantive common-sense ideas, succinct and to the point idea delivery, conservative fiscal mangement record, Bush doesn't hold a candle to him. I think Dean being the quick thinking non-waffler that he is, will be able to arrow in on Bush's weaknesses in the debates in a heartbeat. Despite his ability, Kerry has a really liberal fiscal voting record and I think that will not go over at all with fiscally conservative republicans, wheras they may be swayed with Dean. Bushies want dean because they think he does not have the image - they cannot comprehend that most people have the ability to look beyond image if given the opportunity. If Edwards is on the ticket as VP that would woo the touchy feely types who think image is important. If Kerry & Clark were nominated to be Secretary of something - Defense, State, attorney general etc. - in other words, amalgamate right after the convention and continue to campaign as a team - there would be a more formidible team to take on the Bush corporate war profiting team.

[AP]

32. A lot of the things you like about Dean are images that aren't even firmly

in the minds of most people, and they're also things that Dean is totally susceptible to having reversed (not just weakened -- reversed) in the minds of a huge number of voters.

Substantive common sense ideas? He hasn't even issued a tax policy! I read somewhere that he has issued something like 5 concrete policy papers, and only has 7 policy categories on his website. The ONLY policy paper I've seen of his which lays out anything remotely substantive was his lame-ass education policy (another loan program where taxpayers subisdize the easy profits of Wall St companies packaging student loans).

Quick thinking non-waffler? He's an impetuous man who could probably benefit from slowing down his thought process. He has waffled 180 degrees on just about every substantial liberal policy issue there is, from Affirmative Action, to energy deregulation, to medicare/medicaid.

Win a debate against Bush? He hasn't won a single one against the people he'd have to beat to reach Bush.

I can't emphasize enought that Dean is just not going to stack up well against Bush. He has the wrong policies, and the wrong biography, and none of the skills required.

[pacifictiger]

38. OK, so you're a diehard Edwards supporter

you havn't convinced me, but what do you think of the alliance concept following the dem convention?

[NashVegas]

28. Now Is Not the Time for Conventional Wisdom

I'm starting to think that maybe, not even an Osama miracle will pull Shrub's ass out of the fire.

[AP]

29. No. It's the time for extraordinary wisdom.

And I'm not sure if there's even mediocre wisdom in the idea that we should pick anyone but the strongest Dem simply because we think any of them can beat Bush.

I also don't think it's wise to underestimate Bush.

Clinton said about Bush in 2001 that, no matter what his other faults and flaws are, he's a formidable campaigner who is able to stay precisely on message.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

34. He has no national security experience and not enough experience.

If not for that - he'd be good. You cannot win nowadays without that experience. I think he would painted as a "lightweight" also.

[AP]

35. Lincoln hand't been a CONGRESSMAN for years when he became president.

Edwards didn't go from 0 to 200 mph in 50 years, with nothing but his willingness to work hard without gaining some useful experiences.

And who HAS experience? I don't see any former presidents running, other than Bush, and nobody's seriously going to argue that Bush deserves to win because he has the experience.

[pacifictiger]

39. check this out

Dean message catches on with other candidates
By THOMAS FITZGERALD
Knight Ridder Newspapers

DURHAM, N.H. - Regardless of who wins the New Hampshire primary Tuesday, in one sense Howard Dean already has won a very important battle - the one for the rhetorical soul of the Democratic Party.

Listen to North Carolina Sen. John Edwards at a rally the other night: "You have the power" - a direct steal of Dean's rally-ending tagline. Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts said at another New Hampshire event that he wanted to "break the grip of the powerful interests in this country and put the people in charge." Both men bash insiders, Washington politicians and the establishment - even if they themselves are some or all of the above.

Those themes, sometimes the exact words, echo what Dean has been saying for months. Whoever wins the Democratic presidential nomination, to an important degree he will sound like the former Vermont governor. A little plagiarism among friends is par for the course in presidential politics, where the rule is if a message works, use it.

[AP]

42. Edwards actually says, "I can't do this alone...we can do it together."

It's a significant rhetorical improvement on Dean's "you have the power."

[spooky3]

36. This is interesting, sgr2. But they should fear ALL of our guys.

[andym]

37. hmmm

This sounds alot like the same opinion given by Bush's advisors in Washington Post.

See this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=194470&mesg_id=194470

[MiniMoog]

40. I've heard they fear Edwards, too

And more pointedly, from none other than John Dean (yes, THAT Dean, from Watergate). I wouldn't discount this opinion. He expressed himself quite thoroughly as a guest on a political talk-radio program.

The other thing he mentioned was his disappointment (dismay) that none of the democratic presidential candidates had effectively challenged the Bush Doctorine, what he characterizes as an "imperialistic" administration.

John Dean is a Republican, but he's no fool.

MiniMoog