The Echo Generation - A Bad Sign for the Future?

[question everything]

A few weeks ago CBS "60 Minutes' rebroadcasted its program about the Echo Generation - those born to the baby boomers. A generation of followers, not leaders that trusts government and is not interested in "tearing down" everything. A perfect citizenry to be controlled and manipulated, to never ask questions..

Read it and weep.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/01/60minutes/main646890.shtml

I know that there are many "echos" among DUers, would like to know what you think. Do you see yourself, or your peers, in this description? Can you offer us hope for the future?

[Hershman]

1. As an '82 baby

I think that this applies more to those born '84 to present. My high school class (of 2000) was still quite cynical and distrustful of authority (in general). However, the classes after me were quite the cheerleader type.

If you believe in generations theory, this presents us with an opportunity when the next crisis hits. We can either pull ahead or enter a new Dark Age.

[AX10]

47. I hear what you are saying.

Here is how I see it.

Gen X: 1962-1974

Gen Y: 1975-1984

Millenials: 1985-1998

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. This was our worst fear in having kids

That they'd be so comfortable and so safe - which is what we, as good hippie/boomer parents wanted for them - that they'd mellowly go along with whatever happened. That, coupled with the elimination of the draft, made for a very easy life for our kids, compared to how it was for previous generations.

Our kids question, and they are wonderful members of their communities, because they also learned that their privilege carried with it a responsibility to help others, and I love that in them. But, when it comes to politics and the state of the world, they do not very often see beyond the safety and security of their own worlds.

I do, though, see their kids growing up a bit feistier. This might just mean more jail time, but I have hope for them.

[omega minimo]

17. It would seem to make a difference how they saw their parents engaged

(or not) with the politics and events of the era... If they were raised in a bubble or a mall, without seeing their parents address or even discuss politics and social issues, where else would that awareness come from?

There is a lot of curiousity about the "hippie/boomer" parent and how they and their offspring may (or may not) have tuned out from relevant issues when the family time came.

The question I am asking you is reflected in this comment below:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2096654&mesg_id=2096805

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. Our kids are givers

They're raising their kids the same way, which pleases us.

They were involved at the very beginning. They were at the peace marches and silent vigils, they learned that the Thanksgiving holiday means working with the homeless, they took part in weekly tutoring of kids less able than they were, they volunteered at the animal shelter, they did lots and lots of community and human things.

The politics of the situations were always explained to them, but I think it all got so confusing and so complicated, they were not able to comprehend it. Tell me who can, come to think of it? Who could have foreseen this monstrosity we now call an "administration"?

One girl is married to a rock star, and they both do a lot of good volunteer work, as well as donating money. My other girl is a masseuse who works exclusively for terminally ill clients. Both have kids who are showing signs of being a lot savvier politically than their parents - which is how kids are supposed to rebel. It's all very healthy. It's probably why our kids are not as politically obsessed as we are. Kids need to break away and find their own ways, as ours have done.

Understand, there are all kinds of political involvement. My kids are involved in the human end, at a local level, and I find no fault with it. I see a different path for their kids, though, and I'm enjoying watching it.

These offspring of ours are hardly echoes. They are their very own brilliant songs.

[question everything]

42. I think that eliminating the draft is an important factor

I've often wished that there were some kind of a draft for 18 year old kids, to put their aspirations and plans aside and just work for the good of the country. It does not necessarily have to be soup kitchens, but certainly tutoring in the inner cities, where the ratio of teachers to students is miserable. Even baby sitting, more or less, kids who come home from school to an empty house because the parent(s) is(are) at work. Helping with community centers, getting out of their safe, secure, probably middle class environment to see how the other half live.

It would be only for one year, and they would get enough "wages" to support themselves, perhaps even get housing. Yes, they will know that after a year they can go back to their homes, and cars, and money and desired colleges and careers, but they will develop some understanding, perhaps empathy, to how so many live in this country that will prepare them to be the leaders of the future.

Even if they will develop a complete contempt to the poor - as we have seen recently - at least they will base this on personal experience, not on what Limbaugh and Coulter spit out.

And perhaps they will even come with a better way for the poorest among us to get out of their poverty, perhaps they will succeed with previous generations failed.

[Nay]

3. The part about being bored easily and needing instant

gratification is sure true in the case of my son, age 22. And I didn't haul his ass around to lessons, camp, etc., when he was a kid -- I made him go outside and play, just like all those mean 50's parents. So he didn't have a history of having all his time scheduled for him.

But he is a raving liberal who can't stand Bush or republicans in general. And he is a hard worker -- his boss LOVES him because he does a thorough, neat and clean job of whatever he is assigned. He is VERY sensitive to mean, arbitrary, unfair, unjust teachers/bosses/decisions, however. I can see that he will soon be a work group leader -- he's really calm, fair, and clear-thinking -- just like his ma (!).

He has a strong sense of justice, has no love for the way lots of cops operate here in VA, and doesn't watch much TV. He does play video games a lot and also he hangs out with his many friends. They tend to help and nurture each other a lot, and the group contains males and females both.

[chaska]

9. Good for you. congrats. Kids need nature, and need to get away from tv...

computers, video games, etc. They need fathers too.

[question everything]

43. The opinion of the bosses was expressed in that program, too

being exasperated with the "echos" who do not show any initiative, any curiosity to think outside the box. Glad your son does not fall into this description.

[StellaBlue]

60. What is with the video games?

I had an old-school Nintendo in like 1988, and I loved Super Mario... but 22 year olds playing video games?

I found that through my early twenties it was difficult to find guys to date who WEREN'T like that. I just don't get it. Seems very immature to me.

[Zenlitened]

4. Better than therapy: Make a donation to the Young Democrats of America

http://www.yda.org/

:)

I agree, there are lots of young people out there today who've had every minute of their lives programmed, scheduled, mediated and moderated for them since birth. They are frighteningly vulnerable to being controlled as adults. Or becoming College Republicans. :puke:

But... from what I've seen, there are just as many if not more young people who've embraced the progressive ideals that are the foundation of America's greatness. They're the ones who are going to restore this country to its true path, make America once again a beacon of liberty, prosperity and innovation.

If we support them.

The so-called College Republican groups are little more than storefronts bought and owned by corporate money. We need to step up and support our young colleagues on the Democratic side, from the grass roots up. They're the ones who will carry the torch, by asking questions and demanding answers while the republicans slip ever deeper into a mind-numbing media-manipulated sleep.

Lots of us are kind of tapped-out for donations, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. But definitely consider adding the Young Democrats to your donation list in the months ahead. It's cheaper than the kind of therapy we'll all need in our old age, if the republicans are allowed to continue their assault on everything this nation stands for. And it sends a powerful message to the young people who ARE out there working on behalf of our progressive ideals: "We appreciate what you're doing, and we're on your side."

:)

[evlbstrd]

5. My daughter is an echo..

But she does not fit that stereotype. We never had the means to spoil her, nor would we have if we did. She's incredibly bright, self-reliant and ambitious.

[Angry Girl]

6. That's why the Dominionists are so scary

They can easily get a hold of these "echo booomers" and tell them exactly how to think.

GOD AND COUNTRY
A college that trains young Christians to be politicians.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050627fa_fact

[belle]

70. That's an issue. But I think ultimately it mainly appeals to the ones who

grew up with that sort of thing, AND for whatever reason don't want to break free from it.

They've been laying the ground for these young go-getter fundies for over thirty years. The solution is to provide think tanks and places of intellectual ferment of our own.

[NRaleighLiberal]

7. Our 24 year old went to see F911 with us - attended a very liberal

college (Carleton), and she is so disgusted with what she sees that she settled on the Peace Corps for two years, teaching in Madagascar. We are proud of both her cynicism and motivation to go help make the world a better place. Our 20 year old is still trying to figure it all out, is more of a follower, but also leans very far left. Both our daughters have some friends and many acquaintances who do show lots of the echo character - lots of Young Repugs, etc - and the lemming mentality is worrying for the future.

[starroute]

8. My son and his friends are cynical but kind of tuned out

They're all about 23 or a little younger. They know how bad things are, but they say, "What can I do about it?" Even with college degrees, they can't find decent jobs and they don't see any prospects for the future.

They don't trust any authority figures. They're not followers. But they don't believe in positive change either.

I'd really like to see them get motivated, but I don't know how.

[StellaBlue]

62. Re: Jobs (or lack thereof)

I am 26. I am the first in my family to get a degree.

Most people I know, in my age group/demographic (i.e. not those kids who get cushy-arty-glam jobs right out of college through elitist connections) are very disillusioned and downright depressed. We feel lied to. We were told that if we got a degree (any degree! - and my friends all got degrees from high-reputation, nationally competitive schools), we would do better than our parents. The world would be our oyster.

WRONG.

Most of my friends are 1) in law school (gave up about two years after undergrad, unable to get work or make any $$$); 2) pursuing pointless graduate degrees which will lead neither to a tenured position nor to a 'real world' job, in an attempt to forestall the inevitable; or 3) working in non-degree jobs, mostly admin, hating themselves, hating the condescention of their management/the public, often living with parents.

There are no longer jobs to meet our expectations. I, for one, am beginning to wish I had spent the $45,000 I now owe in loans (AND I worked 20 hours a week the whole time!!!) on buying a house instead of getting a degree. I will not encourage my children to get a degree without first thinking very deeply about their expectations, reasons, finances, etc.

[MuseRider]

10. Both of my sons

fall squarely in that category, they are 19 and 21. Thankfully I raised them differently and although they do do many of the same things as the kids in these articles they do think for themselves. They know I am there whenever they need but I encouraged them to strike out and make their lives. The amusing thing to me is that I did it against a lot of social pressure. It caused me a lot of questioning of my own judgement. I think there are a lot of kids out there just like mine. They always question and learn and decide for themselves what is right. So yes, I would say there is hope for the future. The older I get and the more people I meet working on the things I work on I find that I was not alone in using my own judgement and producing young adults who are creative thinkers and who question authority. They just are not making the same press the others are. Not yet anyway.

[jokerman93]

11. Things change

If the rug gets pulled, the echo-children will have to either wake up or get out of the way.

[Totally Committed]

12. That would make all my kids echos, and NONE of them fit that

stereotype.

But, I did things to make sure they didn't grow up that way. During the Reagan years, when whole families -- mothers kids babies and all -- were forced homeless into the streets od Boston, I would take them with me when we went in to pass out blankets and food to them on the coldest nights, even holiday eves. I wanted them to see those poor people huddled over the subway grates in Government Center for the gusts of warm air as the trains went by below. I even took them to help out when we cooked in the shelters for those homeless, even on holidays. They would help dishing out food or peeling vegetables. Parents should never allow their kids who have been given the gift of relative comfort to ever become "comfortable", or forget there are those worse off than they are. I have to say that each applied the lessons taught in a politically different way, but none of them, to this day is callous about poverty, not even the ones who are not Democrats.

Parents just have to be less lazy about getting their kids involved if they don't want "echos" of their own. (or whatever they're called when they grow up.)

TC

[question everything]

44. What a beautiful post. You should be proud of your parenting skills

and of your kids, and they are lucky to have a parent like you.

[nevergiveup]

72. What a wonderful world it would be

if all parents were like you........it is one thing to "do the talk" but quite another to "do the walk".....and your children were with you. This is the most uplifting post I have read for some time.

[sendero]

13. I don't know about complacency...

... but I will say this - the younger generations are MUCH more media savvy than we ever were and they know that 90% of what they hear is spin.

[omega minimo]

15. If they "know" that, does it automatically follow that they know what

to do about it, how to filter it, how to put on their "bullshit protectors"---

or do they "know" that and go along with it anyway?

[Eric J in MN]

14. In 1985, did most college students want to radically change society?

In 1995, did most college students want to radically change society?

No.

So why is it surprising that this is also true in 2005.

[markam]

16. In 1985, did most college students want to radically change society?

Heck no. I was in college in 1985, and I wanted to drink, pick up girls and drink some more. Somehow, I doubt that it is much different now.

Of course, I did hate Reagan, it just wasn't the all consuming hate, anger and despair that this administration fills me with.

[omega minimo]

18. It's the same administration

:evilfrown:

[MuseRider]

20. Excellent point.

Exactly. Reagan was the warm up. The starting team. A few replacements and a society who has become comfortable with their own prejudices and here we are.

[omega minimo]

21. Comfortable with their own

comfortableness. :evilgrin:


I been askin, over and over, never really get an answer, hasn't anybody been readin the writing on the wall.....don't expect the kids who grew up in the Reagan bubble (or since) to see it cuz the brainwashing had begun......

But threads like last night "Can't believe how much the country changed in 4 short years" :wtf: show that the media takeover, erasure of history, crappification of edumacation and obliteration of context have succeeded nicely at separating generations, preventing people from seeing beyond their two foot space on the timeline, from seeing implications and assessing consequences.

:boring: uh, whatdidyasay? Excuse me, i have a call.........

on edit:

To wit: #19 " Who could have foreseen this monstrosity we now call an "administration"?"

Um, THE PUNK ROCKERS? Anyone paying attention? The generation b/w Boom and Echo? Yer radical gramma? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who knew that Reagan was a joke and the whole charade was a fabrication that continues to this day?

Oh--- 'nother call.

[MuseRider]

22. Actually

I think it started way before Reagan but it was the Reagan administration who brought it all out in the open and aired it out and let it be.

It takes parenting and education to be able to see past all of this and both of those things are in short supply.

My biggest fear is that there are now too many generations without the luxury of either of those things producing other generations who will know nothing but the go along method of living.

"Well, there you go again." Shame shame shame on us for letting this happen.

[omega minimo]

24. Here's all anybody needs to deal with it

You're right:

"I think it started way before Reagan but it was the Reagan administration who brought it all out in the open and aired it out and let it be."

"Brought it all out in the open" IS the brainwashing, starting with :wtf: why was Reagan president in the first place and continuing up to (and beyond) Bush telling America TO THEIR FACE that he needs to "catapult the propaganda" continuously.

"aired it out and let it be." Took over the airwaves and let it be the medium that we all swim in, all the time, all the little itty bitty media-saturated minnows swimming in a toxic soup of short attention span.

The Big Lie Lives! Long Live The Big Lie!

"Shame shame shame on us for letting this happen."

That is why I kep askin the question and expressing some bafflement/annoyance with the MAJORITY on DU actin like they woke up ten minutes ago. Ran a poll and over half the respondents said "too young/not born yet" so they get a pass (they can catch up if they want: LISTEN TO JELLO BIAFRA SPOKEN WORD RECORDINGS).

As for the rest, very few will even bear witness to the fact, as you have done, that we bore witness to this. Thank you. I still don't know how we ended up "letting this happen." Even on DU, people don't seem to want to take responsibility for their part it letting it happen, then or now.

:hi:

[MuseRider]

26. Even at DU

there are those of us who saw it, were disgusted by it but have to admit that during those years were complacent about it. I know I always spoke out about it but that is all I did. I have to own that. My kids were born during Reagan, I was busy....you know all those excuses. I saw this coming and thought that maybe the 8 years of Clinton would show people how it could be. I saw the VRWC against Clinton but what did I do...nothing. That is how we let it happen. I am embarrassed by that, saddened by it but that is the truth. I was fat, happy, doing well, taking care of a dying family while raising my own and I left it for others to do. That is how it happens. I hate that I did not do more so now I do everything I can but I do fear it is too late.

I think if there is anything to be salvaged it is to take those Echo kids and show them what it was like (they did not really get that in school) and how it became what it is now. You can't even talk the girls these days into openly stating they are feminist. You can't convince them that what it was like to be 16, pregnant with nothing but a dirty old man quack in a dirty old hotel room is reason enough. They will soon find out because of the complacency of some of us. :cry:

THIS should be the lesson for the generations to come. This is what happens if you let yourself be lazy about your government. I hope they learn this well and pass it on but it is history and that is boooooring.

[omega minimo]

28. It's too late. It's not too late.

People Have The Power. Jus' like always.

Mindf**k #1:

"(Big) Government Is the Problem"

(make The People forget they ARE the Government)

History? Boring? "HIstory" is what happened 6 months ago.

Maybe jus' give the kids "1984" and a notebook, to check off everything they read that actually exists now. Interacitve! :evilgrin:

I REALLY appreciate your comments today, MuseRider. And those of others who have reflected honestly on this.

One reason I kept after the question, ESP. on DU, is that the complacency that brought us here seems to be a given that goes hand-in-hand with the RESIGNATION-- to the inevitability of the dark, dank imagined future-- of people who ARE reading the writing-on-the-wall NOW. Which is lamer? Is it the same thing?

People gotta stand up dammit. And quit waiting fer heroes. Or recognize those in our midst: "regular" heroes like Cindy Sheehan and a little 6 year old boy leading a band of toddlers around in the Hell of Katrina'ed New Orleans.


Diamante Love (image by Walldude)

I would not expect you to be "embarrassed" and I will bet that you made choices in how you lived that expressed your values; decisions that empowered you and yours, as you refused to support a soul-less, hypocritical, mercenary regime.

I have learned a lot from the non-answers. I understand, post-Katrina, a little better that baffling statement people ALWAYS make "People only care when it affects them." (The confusion coming from how differently we view whether "it affects them" or not)

Thank you so much. Best to you and yours. This is a perfect moment to quit :banghead:

[MuseRider]

29. Thanks to you

too.

This discussion has been helpful. This has been a seriously bad day for me, it started last night. Usually I have a perpetual optimistic streak that keeps me going no matter what and a finely honed knowledge of how to keep my head down when needed.

Hmmmm, I don't know if you meant that as a real question but as to the lamer way of being, resigned or complacent, I whole heartedly vote resigned as lamest. I was complacent but I knew what was going on and did not forget it and as you said I would guess we all lived in a way that expressed our values to be against all that was happening. Resignation has always struck me as a bit cowardly. I do understand it in people and think no less of people for it but having been raised in a predatory family I know what resignation buys you and I ain't going back there ever again.

I am standing and for once nobody is going to sit me down. I am making my stand, I see a lot of us doing that and it makes me proud. It would have been so much easier had we taken care of it before it got so far ahead of us but here we are and the battle has been brought to us. Cindy Sheehan is a real motivator for me. She has not given up. I drove down there twice to be a part of that movement and it will forever remain one of the most influential times in my life. Diamante Love is an inspiration. As to waiting for heros, bad idea. Inspirations yes but heros always let you down at some point because they are us.

Best to you as well. Thanks for making me go a little farther in my posts today because frankly I wasn't prepared to look inward like that. There's ghosts in there you see but it is what it often takes to bring yourself back into the light and get moving once again. So thanks.

[omega minimo]

31. A real question, and my answer is: It's the same thing

Present tense: resignation
Past tense: complacency

Having searched DU for an acknowledgement of our complicity amidst all the wise words about what's REALLY going on in the world, the willingness to give in to a science-fiction-nightmare future as it is STILL in process of being woven around us, seems pointless, self-indulgent.

If we see the signs, if we are aware of the dangers, why sit around and share our depression, when we still have a chance to DU something?

If we can't come together and recognize that the people who watched the never-ending Reagan Era encroach and strangle the nation, had a role in LIHOP; then let us come together and recognize the encroaching dangers NOW and rip the cord out of the strangler's hand-- or we are MIHOP.

IMHO.

B-)

[MuseRider]

36. It could be

self indulgent but I also think people are stunned. I gotta say that the daily barrage is stunning but that does not mean we can stay quite about it. I don't think we are. I think a good many of us are working hard (I almost hate that term now) to do something and perhaps DU is a good place for those who are not to get ideas. I know I am fresh out of ideas for anything other than the local issues I am working on.

I don't know the answer, I really don't. I do know I have been out working on various things that mean something to me and to my friends who are in danger, real danger here in my state. It was funny in a way to watch the other side unravel and then wind back up to sucker punch us and win. BUT, we were not complacent or resigned then. What is it that makes us become that way after one loss? Or even two?

I don't know. You have me thinking I am not smart enough to figure it all out but hell, that has never stopped me before LOL.

Your last paragraph makes sense to me. What are your ideas here? I do agree with it.

[omega minimo]

39. Stunned. Deer in headlights. Future Shock.

Really noticed that after Katrina. And have always given a break to kids growin up post-Reagan in the Mindf**k Era (except that generational zombie expression is really creepy)............

Recent ideas:

Post-Katrina, organize and send a strong, unified message to Congress that they WILL represent us and WILL demand accountability for NOLA disaster from this misadministration (i.e we TELL them, not ASK)

Post-Katrina, bear witness to the human suffering and not shift QUITE so fast back to all the pontificating and theorizing. We lost the moment.

Encourage each other to recognize simple ways to empower ourselves and those around us (as noted above). Encourage each other to not assume it's "all or nothing" and "black or white" which sometimes seems to bog down DUers.

Encourage each other to respect our own abilities, awareness and assessments-- not assume there is something we don't get (that is THE game of politics-- it's a bluff). Informed questions work wonders.

Encourage each other to recognize that heroes like Cindy and Diamante are us-- and not immediately put them on a pedestal and nominate them for public office.

Encourage each other.

Connect the dots. Connect the dots. Connects the dots.

Be honest about the fact that everyone, including Congress, is afraid of Bushco. Be honest about the fact that Bushco. is afraid of the American people standing up to the game. You saw Bush in his Disney speech Thursday? THEY KNOW THE MASK IS OFF.

That's why "Post-Katrina, bear witness to the human suffering and not shift QUITE so fast back to all the pontificating and theorizing. We lost the moment."

When get all enwrapped and enraptured with the rationalizations and the cobwebs of Bushco's industrial strength bullshit, we dilute the passion and purity of truth. It's exhausting. No one can keep up with the doublethink. So.....

All of the Above plus:
Give ourselves a break. Do the best we can.
Encourage each other.

[MuseRider]

40. This is a great post.

For someone like me it works. I am easily bogged down by the bullshit and outrage only makes it more difficult to think straight. You should post this as a thread because I think many of us are much like I am, it takes more than my brain to weed through it daily and after two or three days I am lost in the morass. It is exhausting. Keep to the points and never waver, be pure and honest. That should not be difficult.

We did lose that moment but the suffering will remain fresh so maybe we can get it back. Obviously Bush** never got it and the public saw that.

For me and others who are like me I think this is a very important part of what you said, "Encourage each other to respect our own abilities, awareness and assessments-- not assume there is something we don't get (that is THE game of politics-- it's a bluff). Informed questions work wonders." There are a lot of us who are new at this game, and it is a game, and those who are politically savvy can be intimidating but informative if we just ask the questions.

This has certainly been a successful hijack of the original thread but for some reason it is just what I needed today to pick me back up, kick me in the behind and get me back into things. I wish I had a better comprehension of the whole but I will get there. Too many years of letting it slide.

[omega minimo]

52. Expecting perfection makes it difficult. Accepting the tiresomeness

of a constant barrage of catapult-loads of lies is part of being willing to continue to Pay Attention! (masochism :evilgrin: ? No, recognition of responsiblity). Sense of humor helps.

"Keep to the points and never waver, be pure and honest. That should not be difficult. "

Democracy depends on an informed public. Trying to be one is damn hard and clearly, they're trying to make it IMPOSSIBLE.

"We did lose that moment but the suffering will remain fresh so maybe we can get it back. Obviously Bush** never got it and the public saw that."

You're RIGHT!

"There are a lot of us who are new at this game, and it is a game, and those who are politically savvy can be intimidating but informative if we just ask the questions."

John Roberts is a good example of this. He came to his SCOTUS confirmation hearings with a shtick-- act thoughtful and "charming" (he is plain bizarre) and pretend to always stick to the Constitution AS IF THAT IS NOT A FLEXIBLE AND LIVING DOCUMENT. Then, when he felt the LEAST bit challenged (Bushco. rules say we must NEVER question them), when the questions got too good, he turned defensive and petulant, irritated and condescending, whiny and threatening-- like any Big Daddy figure who is nice if you don't cross him and dangerous if you do.

That is NOT the temperment of a Chief Justice.

Public officials will pull that game and try to humiliate those who put them on the spot. Too bad.

Oftentimes, at public meetings, what seems to the public like The Question is the one nobody's asking. Don't be afraid to ask it. And don't be surprised if they try to make you look like you weren't listening. The Emperor often has no clothes.

:hi:

[StellaBlue]

63. 26 and proud radical feminist!

[AX10]

48. I see those who are going off to college under Bush...

post 9/11 of course are a different group of people. High School gradutes from 2000 are different from those who came after.

People born between 1984-1992 may have a right wing tendancy in them. Just as those who grew up under Reagan have one now.

This is a theory and may need corrections.

[MuseRider]

53. I have no idea

what it really looks like statistically but from judging my sons friends I would say that the vast majority of them fall more to the side of liberal. There are a few of course, one of my oldest sons friends parents spend some of their summers with the Cheney's, of course that son seems a little RW to me but you know, I think he will end up a Dem. I can't help you with any more than that though. Both my boys are music majors and from my experience they really tend toward liberal ideas.

[question everything]

45. But they did in 1965 and in 1975... at least, in 1969 and 1970 (nt)

[Armstead]

23. I think they a mixed-bag blank slate

I had mixed feelings after watching the 60 Minutes Report.

While some of the values seemed very conservative -- especially the shortage of passion -- they also seemed like potential liberals in their belief in teamwork for the common good.

Liberalsim is teamwork on a larger level, and is contrary to the isolation of conservatism.

But corporate conservatism is also based on teamwork. Just with a different motivation. So it seems like kids in the Echo Generation could go either way.

[omega minimo]

25. Groupthink is dangerous

[Ignacio Upton]

27. That's BS

I was born in '87 and the majority of people my age voted against Bush last time. However, I think this applies more to older teenagers (people born in mid-late '80s) while younger teenagers are more conservative (early '90s) since they are not informed much, but that will be different when they are older

[question everything]

46. I know that we were trying to get many young college kids to

register to vote with the understanding that most would vote for Kerry, but if I remember correctly, the stats at the end showed that the percentage of, say 18-24 voters remained the same as in 2000.

Still, glad that you and your peers are different. Obviously, if most are just content to do their own thing and to be left alone, there will be plenty of opportunity for leaders to take charge as nature abhors vacuum. I just hope that you, and not another Bush, would be the one.

[StellaBlue]

64. WOW!

People born in 87 can VOTE?!

Ohmigod, I am getting old.

[gulfcoastliberal]

30. Born in the bicentennial year

I would love to massively rework government into something that puts the environment over a quick buck, legislates gender equality - basically a cradle-to-grave state welfare system that guarantees dignified employment, free education, guaranteed pensions, etc - like what Norway does.

But many of my contemporaries are sheep that were influenced by their parents and their cognitive schemas won't allow for this. And they live lives that are completely opposite to what they espouse as their political ideals.

Also, some (at least me) are deeply cynical at the prospects for a good future. It's like the boomer generation totally fucked up the world beyond repair - it's hard to get motivated when they deny science is real and keep the status quo of rapaciously raping and plundering the planet going. Boomers suck - thanks for ruining the planet faster than any other generation.

[omega minimo]

32. HERE IT IS-- THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION

"And they live lives that are completely opposite to what they espouse as their political ideals."

aka HYPOCRISY

[gulfcoastliberal]

33. Exactly! I know lots of repukes who enjoy BJs and smoking pot yet

they don't get the fact they are hypocrites!

[omega minimo]

34. way to kill discussion GCL!

:hi:

and totally miss the point :puke:

[gulfcoastliberal]

35. Sorry, I was thinking of Clinton

And how they hate him for doing something they love.

Edit: heard a freeper in the lobby the other day defending * by saying "well, all presidents make mistakes. But at least * isn't getting (get this) "harmonicas" under his desk. WTF, "harmonicas"? As I passed out the door I said "at least the marmonicas didn't kill anyone".

[omega minimo]

37. Our only choices are "harmonicas under the desk" or

"bats in the belfry"? :crazy:

[StellaBlue]

65. Yeah, AND

They're going to get FAT pensions and about TWENTY-FIVE years of retirement, some of them.

We will get ZERO pensions and working until 70 or beyond.

[baron j]

38. I wouldn't worry about it. My not-so-fellow so-called Gen Xers

were not all cool, punk, counterculture, purple-haired liberals. Most of them were brand-conscious, brain-dead jocks and preppies growing up, and I imagine most of them are SUV driving repug voters, now. Every generation has it's useless chaff. But there are always wonderful people born every year, every generation.

[AX10]

49. Gen Xer's came into adulthood under Reagan.

Gen X is also very right wing/oriented on themselves, yuppie, soccer moms, etc...

and they vote too. Gen Xer's here at DU are in the minority.

[rockymountaindem]

41. I think I remember seeing that report.

As an "echo" I think it's a bunch of crap. The alternative is the so-called "millenial" theory. I prefer that term, btw, derived from the fact that we matured/came into adulthood around the turn of the millenium. Anyway, there are other demographers and social scientists who maintain that our generation is much more active and angry. They point to the WTO demonstrations as an example of how we might act in the future. Also, note that the under 30 segment of the population was the only one to vote for Kerry.

[Hidden Stillness]

50. A Few Opinions About Generations

I did not catch the "60 Minutes" thing, so I will just write my general opinions, but note that the corporate media is always giving us "trends" and stereotypes of groups of people, so it may or may not even be happening. I remember that on an old PBS talk show called "This Week With Dennis Wholey" I think it was--a good talk show--there was a Professor from the University of Toledo (Ohio)--of either Political Science or History, can't remember--who had just completed an exhaustive study of who actually was the "average" anti-Viet Nam war protester. Although the stereotype is a young white male college student, after studying films of marches, names on petitions, membership of anti-war groups, polls with breakdowns of specific groups and changing opinion over the years--back when polling was still scientific--concluded that the "average" protester was really a white woman, "housewife," around 35. This was what the demographics were actually showing. Ignored, as always, for some male group--"hippies," etc.--grabbing the credit for the turning of the tide.

Even though all of these generational things are stereotypes, some descriptions might be useful--for example: the Roosevelt/New Deal generation were my parents, and I was a Baby Boomer who grew up during the '60s and 70s. I've come to believe that the "civic-minded/Good Government" "let's all pitch in together" attitude and behavior of their generation was the correct way, and we should get back to it. No big fancy "hero" shit--(if you have watched any of these WWII tributes, you might note how embarrassed that generation gets at "cheering" "hero" shit, and that to praise yourself too highly for what you did, is immoral; I like that modesty; they won the war, and NEVER hung up a "Mission Accomplished" sign). The whole attitude was that public service, learning about issues, volunteering, supporting candidates or unions, were all just ordinary behavior (still had Civics classes in school), like not littering or lying. They were the generation of Paper Drives, and Aluminum Drives, and Rubber Drives for the war; who rationed food and gas and did so proudly; who bought Bonds for our country; who at one point produced one-third of the Nation's produce in Victory Gardens. You could keep it up because it was all very low key and ordinary, like--of course eveybody has to act that way, or society will die. You give, and you deserve to get, too. Participation was local, national, whatever you could do to help; not overly-ideological.

Then, the (stereotype, although I admit I never knew anyone who acted this way) '60s-'70s "rebelling/protest" generation. Now, it just seems like so much phony posturing for the cameras and microphones, as if your main point were to try to get famous, as a "youth leader." How can these global/protest march spectacles even be followed up on, as a practicality? I think the active control of the political system was already starting to slip away from us, as if the only thing you can do is stand at the gates and yell. I remember very little of political intelligence from teenagers then, or there was concern about stupid things ("Legalize Marijuana"--stupid shit; tell that to the poor). I believe the next generation turned out as shallow/corporate as many did (many did not), was the combination of (sometimes) "overgrown children" Boomer parents--knew some--and the corporate takeover of the public square, so that there is no shared social history anymore, only close-ups of advertising. It eventually led to the godawful phoniness, and uselessness, of "protests" by people dressed up as turtles, or playacting some event, etc.--and this accomplishes what? They have never heard the words "politician," "bureaucracy," "taxes," "government," and etc. except as insults; poisoned. Way too aware of media and corporate-"think." They don't even live in a civic democracy; they live in corporate advertising.

Sept. 11th and now Katrina--and the unmitigated disaster that is the Bush "Presidency"--made a lot of these "kids" (God, getting old here) pay attention to the world as a damned serious thing, political, a thing to learn about and live in. I heard many comments from young family members who paid attention to the news, the world, for the first time just the past few years. Bush-haters, every one of them. Maybe this will remind us all that the real world, with its complete population, still exists out there, behind the grinning corporate pimp holding up a product.

[freethought]

51. Not entirely, my thoughts

I am 38 years old, generationally I am the 'tip of the spear' for Generations X. I think that the so-called "echo boomers" are in for some rude awakenings and I think Hurricane Katrina, aside from 9/11, is one the largest. Generations can surprise you when other people pin expectations of them. For instance, the baby boomers who protested Vietnam and preached peace, love, and dope looked on track to be a generation of communal, ultra-liberal weed smokers. So happens this same generation turned out to be the most greedy, self absorbed, selfish generations seen, especially after Reagan worked on them. Generation X was seen as a generation of slackers and cynics and turned out to be a dynamic workforce touched with a dash of entrepreneurialism, and some environmentalism didn't hurt either. Don't prejudge the echo-boomers just yet they may surprise you.

[high density]

54. "5 of 10 echo boomers trust the Government"

Is that really out of the mainstream? I'm in my mid twenties and don't remember much before the Clinton years, and I generally trusted my government up until around "Mission Accomplished" day in 2003.

[freethought]

55. You said your key words!

Your views are formed during the Clinton years. Clinton believed that government could work and do good. In the era of Monkey-Boy government is being set up to loose. I hope your generation realizes that. Let's put it this way, FEMA operated as a professional agency and not the 'turkey farm' that Bush made it.

[Maine-ah]

56. I'm a child born to a baby boomer, I and they most certainly don't

feel that way. Neither does my sister or brothers, or my husband.

I find that most of us born to baby boomers are pretty damn rebelious, and not willing to put up with too much shit.

[seabeyond]

57. can you imagine a mama teaching her children to question all

i mean ALL authority. lol lol. i do. and i do it with confidence. i can do this because i have also set a good example of responsibility and being kind and nice. being respectful. but always, take what is being demanded of you within, and see if it meets mustard

i have two young ones that wont be this description. we actively work on going beyond what is presented.

i am not going to embrace what your post says. i am going to have much higher expectation and demand from our youth. i see much more in our children than this.

but then i am one that doesnt easily follow rule, or mob or group

[Kitsune]

58. 1983 and blessed with a total lack of trust in ANY authority here *nt*

[StellaBlue]

59. Wait a minute - what about Generation X?

I thought we were roughly 1964-1984... ?

Then there are these over-booked, over-praised mushminds.... the Echo people... ?

They'll snap out of it fast enough when they find out they can't get a glamorous job after college. Or else they will go totally loony. Or end up living with their parents until they're 50. I see those as the three possible outcomes.

[VADem11]

61. I think it's wrong

I'm a "echo boomer" and haven't seen too many of the traits. Generally young people are independent and don't fit the profile created. Every trait is different from person to person. It's ridiculous to say that they will be manipulated like robots. We aren't stupid.

[StellaBlue]

66. I was most concerned and surprised about

Their caring about brands, consumerism, trends, etc.

I thought that would surely be VERY uncool these days among teens. Being EXPLOITED by The Man... especially since they are supposedly so 'wired' and 'cynical'.

16-year-olds can only be so cynical. I mean, come ON.

Who here is LESS cynical than they were at 16?!

To be honest, I don't really give a shit what these kids think. When they all get a job and are no longer sponging off mom and dad in any way, then I will care what they think. And I suspect what they have to say will change a bit.

[lildreamer316]

67. HELLO.

I just posted about this the other day. All of my peer's parents were baby boomers; I was born in 1973. Please read.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4718858

[melliyna]

68. new member butting in

I was born in 1987. And although I'm not from the USA I think I can safely say that as many of my generation are stupid sheep there are just as many who are not. (I have online friends from all across the world - including US).

My friends and I go to rallies, write letters and volunteer. One friend is off to spend a year in Indonesia as a volunteer aid worker. I've volunteered for amnesty and worked in a soup kitchen. So many of our generation are caring, intelligent people. Of course there are those who are not (I should know - I've been tormented by them, had to suffer through them in class).

The problem (imho) is that many of them don't know how to be engaged. They've been raised on a diet of endless TV and magazines (I know families that have no books in the house at all), by a school system that only requires that you memorise and regurgiate answers to achieve a passing grade (with exceptions of course and it's not neccessarily the teachers fault - it's the system)in a society that says "politics is boring. why don't you watch Big Brother instead?" They aren't given a chance to be educated or engaged in politics - my parents, my friends parents are all progressive. They encouraged us to think, to read, to create and question.

I've never been content with the status quo. In a society in which my dear friend and his boyfriend and my other friend and her girlfriend cannot marry or have children because some politican thinks it's an affront to "family values" when you can still be spat on for walking down the street holding the hand of a boy with darker skin who may have lived in the country longer than I have but it doesn't matter is not the society I (or many of my generation want). We want to be encouraged to think, to question - to be different.

I feel awful for those that can't/won't be able to do this. That they are so close minded at such a young age *sigh*

[belle]

69. Way, *way* different interpretation here. First of all,

it's way too early to say for sure, especially wrt attitudes toward authority. If you're defining the "echos" as born in the mid-80's or later ('95 as the end date! that's a bunch of ten-year olds!). That means a lot of them are still in college and even high school. Yeah, we think of college as being the "question authority" time, but it doesn't necessarily play out that way for a lot of people. And high school's still a time of conformism, probably always will be in this country. And even as is: five out of ten trusting the government is *not* what you'd have found among the WWII generation (or earlier), I'd bet the farm on it. Five out of ten votes: percentage-wise, that's an "F" grade.

Another part is, this article looks extremely superficial. And the demographic it seems to be alluding to hardly covers everyone. Little league, SAT's...that's what's left of the middle class; but how many others still fit into that? And even just focusing on those guys, we're still talking about kids, mostly, here; and it sure sounds like the demographic this article's covering means either still living at home or financially dependent on the folks (for school). What happens if/when they go out into the workforce armed with the morals and tools of a different generation? This ain't the Greatest Generation; back then, the gap between rich and poor was *nothing* like now. And you can't start a one-parent Cleaver style family on today's wages. No.

I also think this is important:

>"They're not watching the traditional networks as much because they have so many choices. They're playing on the Internet... They are the most sophisticated generation ever when it comes to media. They create their own Web sites, make their own CDs and DVDs, and are cynical of packaged messages. They take their cues from each other. A well-placed product on one of their pop idols, like Paris Hilton or Ashton Kutcher, can launch a brand of $40 T-shirts and trucker hats. But they also shop at vintage clothing shops.

***

While I'm not one of the people who thinks the Internet is a panacea (no technology is), you have to admit that it's been a way better model for egalitarianism than the previous forms of media. Interactive, resourceful, peer-to-peer, DIY...isn't that what we want from our citizens? From ourselves?

Finally, I think that on the whole, a "building things up" generation is a GOOD thing. Call it old-fashioned if you will, but...Look, I'm a Gen-X-er, and proud enough of it, in my cynical way; but let's face it, there's a reason politics are in the dismal shape they are now. Cynicism will only get you so far. And while I know a lot of people won't agree with this, in some ways it strikes me that Dubya is the perfect president for the zeitgeist coming off the 70's through now--the worst side of it, anyway. Malaise, cynicism, completely self-involved, overly entitled...George Bush, along with his administration, is *not* conservative, remember. They are NOT about "teamwork" in any real sense, or sincerity, or "building things up," or even genuine respect for tradition. (They don't even know our own history! Or care). They are all about "tearing things down." It's just that what they want to tear down is not what the hippies wanted to tear down. Either way, I have to say: it's not sustainable, by itself. Even if you do need to tear things down, eventually you need to come up with something new to put there instead.

Now it's just a question of what we/they come up with.

The echos give me hope, if anything.

[Enraged_Ape]

71. I know a lot of young people who are disenchanted and angry

I think this article reflects wishful thinking on the behalf of the writer that the oblivious frame of mind of so many Americans today will continue into the far-flung future. It was great to be oblivious when things were good, but all but the most misguided Freeper realizes now that they don't have that old luxury of being an idiot.

As for myself, I have no kids, but I do have several little nieces and nephews. And all of them are being raised, thankfully, to think for themselves. And they are very, VERY good at it.

[SeaNap05]

73. What about drugs......

does substance abuse fit into this picture, or is that just part of growing up?

[cassiepriam]

74. just wait till their friends start coming home in body bags...

friends arriving home from war with a toe tag tend to wake up even the most complacent, especially when there is a draft and your number is next....you tend to start asking questions real fast....ah, I remember it well. Today we are a spoiled country. But that is going to change, the draft, gas prices, the housing bubble bursting, less affordable college.... reality time.

[ZombieNixon]

75. Love the broad brush.

:eyes:

Well, damn it. I want to be number one. I want to be the best. And damn me if I'm not going to! Screw being part of the team. I'm gonna lead the fucking team!

In terms of cultural mores, I'm about as typical a GenY-er as you're going to get, but:
I don't generally give a shit what's required of me. Requirements are for pussies, since if you're not willing to go above and beyond the requirements and reinvent things, you're only fit for a mindless cubicle job serving the Man. I drink, I party and damn it, I'm awesome! And I sure as hell don't trust the government.

Oh, yeah, not everyone is "above average" in out generation, just being trained to be good little Americans™.