Correct Statement:: Iraqi's will greet us with flowers!

[DU me]

Before 1991, that may have been true.

Tom Friedman said some pretty interesting things about that with Russert. I thought that he made a valid point.

BEFORE - a decade of sanctions, BEFORE being beat back to Iraq and out of Kuwait, BEFORE leading on a support for revolt against Saddam and then leaving them to be massacred, Iraqi's might have been happy to see us. Iraqi's were "cosomopolitan" "educated". Post 2002, they had raised children in poverty, despair and been subjected to more religious intolerance. The oppression and suffering is consequently "our" fault. HOW could we ever think that NOW we would have had their gratitude. The 10 yr olds in 1991 are part of the "insurgents" of today. A product of the last 14 years.

This administration has, as I have always maintained, stopped growing with the world after Bush I left office. When Bush II came in, they picked up where Bush I left off, tragically forgetting and/or ignoring the last 8 years of CHANGE that had taken place.

I know that you all know this, but listening to Friedman last night game me even a better understanding of how and why this administration had gotten it so wrong.

[Wilms]

1. I don't understand.

What are you saying, here?

"This administration has, as I have always maintained, stopped growing with the world after Bush I left office."

And what do you mean,here...?

"I know that you all know this, but listening to Friedman last night game me even a better understanding of how and why this administration had gotten it so wrong."

when all this...

BEFORE - a decade of sanctions, BEFORE being beat back to Iraq and out of Kuwait, BEFORE leading on a support for revolt against Saddam and then leaving them to be massacred, Iraqi's might have been happy to see us. Iraqi's were "cosomopolitan" "educated". Post 2002, they had raised children in poverty, despair and been subjected to more religious intolerance. The oppression and suffering is consequently "our" fault. HOW could we ever think that NOW we would have had their gratitude. The 10 yr olds in 1991 are part of the "insurgents" of today. A product of the last 14 years.

was known prior to shock and awe?

[tatertop]

3. What does this mean?

"they picked up where Bush I left off, tragically forgetting and/or ignoring the last 8 years of CHANGE that had taken place."

Are you blaming Clinton? Forget that noise.

I meant to reply to the original poster.

[DU me]

5. I have always felt that when Bush I lost re election, the Repubs were

in such shock and disbelief that when Bush II got in office, they basically tried to pretend that Clinton didn't exist and that the last 8 years didn't change anything from their own plans. They were wrong and that is why they miscalculated so badly with Iraq. They ignored that the world went on and changed. They were stuck in the past and never looked at the present.

[DU me]

4. I know that Iraq was started because of Wolfowitz, Cheney...

they wanted to move their philosophies forward and start a pre emptive war for really no good reason. At least no good reason that was shared with the American people.

Watching the news shows over the last couple of years, I have heard them ask, why weren't the Iraq's greeting us with flowers? Why are there so many insurgents? We aren't being greeted as liberators, why? Besides the obvious reasons....this administration is a bunch of liars, they plan on staying there for strategy, - there are all kinds of reasons.... The young kids in Iraq in 91' are now young adults. The sanctions and the suffering that was brought onto the Iraqi population as a consequence have changed the course of the Iraqi way of thinking. The young adults are not so receptive to the Americans. They are not of the same thought of their parents. Rumsfield and Cheney were thinking of Sadam and the Iraqi's pre 1991, and the way that they thought. In many ways, we are now dealing with a new generation formed from a reality of oppression and more religious constraint. These young adults are a different Iraqi.

[Wilms]

6. I doubt I was the only one talking about this in 1991.

And I doubt that *Co is very surprised.

What's happening there is what they want. Terror, money-making, and keeping the oil in the ground.

[thebigidea]

2. listening to Friedman will rot your brain.

the only thing he helps people understand is why big 70s moustaches shouldn't be cultivated.

Or to put it in Friedmanese, as a Pakistani goat-merchant told me once while waiting for a bus in Damascus...