Has there ever been a study of IQ and political ideology?

[expatriot]

I know the exit polls and educational attainment.

High school graduates: Democrat
Some College: 50/50
College: Republicans
Postgrad: Democrat

Now high school graduates "tend" to be Democrat because of lower incomes College grads "tend" to be Republican because they are all think they're going to be millionaires

Post Grads are Democrats because.... why? tend to be intellectuals.


My hypothesis is that _within_ each strata of educational attainment, the higher ones iq, the _more_ likely they are to be of a progressive/liberal ideology, the lower their i.q. the more likely they are to be conservative.

Has any scientific study been done on this that anyone knows of?

on edit: I know there is no way to measure intelligence and IQ is a antiquated concept but for general cross-population comparisons, it still work to show relative differences.

[rodeodance]

1. there was one such study that came out during the campaign--I think

it looked at GPA scores?--anyway--Kerry not good (similar to Bush).

[Yupster]

13. Here's the 2000 exit poll info

on education

College dropouts
Gore 59 %
Bush 39 %

High School graduate
Gore 48 %
Bush 49 %

Some College
Gore 45 %
Bush 51 %

Colleeg grad
Gore 45 %
Bush 51 %

Post grad
Gore 52 %
Bush 44 %

To me the only stat that really jumps out is the high school dropout number that goes overwhelingly Democratic. I would assume that is the group that votes the least. Perhaps that's where voter drives needs to focus.

I would interpret the post grad number to be more one of occupation than education. The largest numbers of post grad degrees by far are school teahers going back to get a degree so they can get an education stipend on their salary schedule. That's wy my wife and I both got ours.

Since educators are mostly Democratic voters, I think that's where the post grad number comes from.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.html

[Yupster]

32. Oops a mistake in my above post

and too late to edit.

The 59-39 Gore over Bush number is high school dropouts, not college dropouts.

[SharonAnn]

22. But Kerry got accepted into Law School, Bush was rejected.

UT Law School rejected Bush. He had to go to Harvard for postgrad because he could get into the MBA program through family alumni status.

[GreenArrow]

26. that's true, but GPA

is not equivalent to intelligence.

[RagingInMiami]

2. Along those lines

Has anyone done an IQ study on recent presidents? I would love to see the shrub's IQ, especially compared to Clinton's.

[Wordie]

24. Shrub's is higher than Kerry's, supposedly. I guess it's a question of how

one's IQ is used, rather than the IQ score. After all, what good is intelligence if you don't read and let other people do the heavy lifting (information-wise) for you?

If Rove, et.al really are indicted, perhaps this will teach the American public to think twice about electing a "regular guy" (who just pretends to be dumb) to the White House. Bush made such a big deal about "surrounding himself with good people" (or however he put it) and look what it's gotten us. I want a president who can think for himself!

[RagingInMiami]

25. Are you serious about shrub's IQ?

The guy comes across dumber than a crack rock.

[Wordie]

27. That's an intelligent vote-getting strategy, imho. Not an ethical one, or

one that is admirable in any way. But intelligent, it is.

I really did read that Bush's IQ is higher than Kerry's. I'm sorry I don't have the link. He just uses his IQ for the wrong things, imho.

Edited to add:
Well, I've now found at least one link:
http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=292960

[RagingInMiami]

31. I don't buy it

Who tested him? Diebold?

[Wordie]

35. Scroll down... I found the link and posted it later in this thread.

And I can understand why you don't buy it, but there it is. We have all "misunderestimated" (cringe) him. (And the IQ score was determined by a method that converts SAT scores to IQ scores.)

I can't vouch for the information one way or another. But it wouldn't surprise me to find that he was quite intelligent, but totally without any true curiosity about the world (he doesn't like to read, remember?). That can make a person appear to be dumb.

[Little-Jen]

39. Well, amazing as it seems,

it has been recently proven that Kerry and Bush's grades in collage were nearly identicle.

[afdip]

3. there's the john stuart mill quote,

"while it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."

[Jade Fox]

5. Ya beat me to it....

I love that quote. Not exactly a study, but the truth of it hits you immediately.

[expatriot]

7. i love that quote and will add an appendum.

the conservatives who are not stupid are either sadistic, misanthropic, sociopathic or painfully naive.

[3waygeek]

28. FWIW,

Mill's IQ has been estimated to be around 200.

[kostya]

4. dunno, but I'd suspect there's less correlation with IQ than

with other factors, such as family background, income/wealth, or some other characteristic of brain wiring. - K

[dalaigh lllama]

10. I'd be more interested in seeing if there's a correlation

between child abuse and adult ideology.

[targetpractice]

21. Read "Born to Rebel" by Frank Sulloway

Sulloway's research on family dynamics and personality is breathtaking. In "Born to Rebel" he makes a convincing argument that eldest children identify with parents and authority, and support for the status quo, whereas younger children rebel against it. (It's more complicated than simply birth order, but that's the gist).

In Born to Rebel, Sulloway surveys the biographies of hudreds of historical figures in science. In a later research paper, he surveys biographical data of political activists. Similarly, he finds laterborn political activists tended to be less conservative than firstborn activists.

His work has had a profound influence on my way of thinking. Check it out.

[dalaigh lllama]

33. Interesting. We could do an informal study here

to see if DUers are more apt to be later born. Myself, I'm a middle child, so I fit Sulloway's paradigm.

[tridim]

6. Attending college has nothing to do with IQ

or even basic intelligence. That's where the argument falls apart IMO.

I think it's really simple.. If you're a non-thinking, self-centered and uncaring person, you're a Republican. The party is set up specifically to cater to asshole jerks.

[expatriot]

8. I never said it did. If I did think that, I wouild be satisfied with

the data from the exit polls on educational attainment. I wanted to know if there were any studies done on IQ and ideology. More specifically, critical thinking skills and poltical ideolgoy. that is where you would definitely find a correlation no doubt about it.

[DJ MEW]

9. I've seen a study like that before

but I don't remember where I saw it. I know it was an old study but it still went up to Clinton. I showed estimated IQ's of past presidents. I think it went as far back as Teddy Roosevelt, I know it did not go all the way back.

I remember that Woodrow Wilson and Jimmy Carter were the number 1 and 2 on the list.

[expatriot]

16. yeah i have seen that too but i was asking about of the general pop. nt

[Child_Of_Isis]

11. Here is one.

http://www.geocities.com/joyouspoetry/PrezIQ.html

[Wordie]

29. I think somebody found an IQ score in Bush's records that showed

his IQ was actually pretty high. Higher than Kerry's, in fact. Although I clearly can see why the study you quoted arrived at the conclusion that his was low.

Here is some more discussion regarding the issue:
http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=292960

This site claims that using standard techniques which convert SAT scores to IQ scores, Bush has an IQ of between 125 and 129.

And, his mother was quoted as saying he was "dumb like a fox."

[nvliberal]

37. Any site that converts SAT scores to IQ scores is full of bunk.

SAT scores measure ONLY preparation for college--NOTHING else, not "intelligence," not potential college success, nothing else.

If you don't believe me, ask ETS.

And IQ is a worthless, mostly debunked, measure of "intelligence" today.

[Wordie]

38. I don't know that anyone in this thread is taking the topic 100% seriously

We've all heard about IQ scores not being great measures of much.

I hadn't heard previously that some believe there is no reliable method to convert SAT scores to IQ scores. I wonder about that. I do know that Mensa accepts SAT scores in lieu of their testing, so maybe there really is some sort of link between the two. But it doesn't really seem to be of earthshattering importance anyway.

It seems to me that this thread has been more casual chat...full of idle curiosity, about Bush, and if he really is intelligent, however you measure it. Compared to topics like the Fitzgerald investigation, spies in the White House, etc., this is a pretty fluffy thread. Nonetheless, it's a slow night at DU, and so this becomes interesting. And, just as a point of curiosity, I really would like to know whose scores are higher.

Just out of curiosity, again, are there accurate measures of intelligence today? It all would seem to me to depend on who was doing the defining of what intelligence really is.

[DBoon]

12. Are political orientations genetically determined?

http://www.apsanet.org/imgtest/GeneticsAPSR0505.pdf

Interesting study that basic orientation is genetic, based on basic personality traits, while party affiliation has more to do with parental influence.

quote:

If, as our results suggest, there is a genetic basis for
the varying political views people hold, and if, as seems
probable, genetic transmission frequently affects clusters
of political attitudes,we are likely to observe broad
but distinct political phenotypes. The number of these
phenotypes may vary, but for purposes of illustration
we discuss two probable orientations. One is characterized
by a relatively strong suspicion of out-groups
(e.g., immigrants), a yearning for in-group unity and
strong leadership, especially if there is an out-group
threat (“Do not question the President while we are
at war with terrorists”), a desire for clear, unbending
moral and behavioral codes (strict constructionists), a
fondness for swift and severe punishment for violations
of this code (the death penalty), a fondness for systematization
(procedural due process), a willingness to tolerate
inequality (opposition to redistributive policies),
and an inherently pessimistic view of human nature
(life is “nasty, brutish, and short”).

The other phenotype is characterized by relatively
tolerant attitudes toward out-groups, a desire to take
a more context-dependent rather than rule-based approach
to proper behavior (substantive due process),
an inherently optimistic view of human nature (people
should be given the benefit of the doubt), a distaste
for preset punishments (mitigating circumstances), a
preference for group togetherness but not necessarily
unity (“We can all get along even though we are quite
different”), suspicion of hierarchy, certainty, and strong
leadership (flip-flopping is not a character flaw), an
aversion to inequality (e.g., support for a graduated
income tax), and greater general empathic tendencies
(rehabilitate, don’t punish).

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Where intelligence is part of the determinate for political ideology .....

I suspect those prone to thinking are more likely to be progressive. I'm not at all sure just raw intelligence means as much as one's propensity to be ... well ...... intellectually curious.

Just by way of example ...... supremes ...... not many who started as liberals became conservative ..... but many who were supposed to be conservative became liberal, or at least tended toward liberal thinking. It occurs to me this is with good reason. Conservative values tend to be antisocial where liberal values tend to be social. Almost by definition, antisocial is bad and social is good. The law is intended to do good for society. Ergo, conservatism is simply not just.

Joe Schmo and Joe Phd, if they think clearly, are equally likely to be liberal. Lack of clarity would not be lack of intelligence - or even lack of education. Lack of clarity, in this context, would be some innate propensity to antisocial behavior, of one sort or another, that clouds one's thinking.

This is also why more liberals tend to be nice, accepting types, while more conservatives tend to be snarly, fire and brimstone, rigid types.

I know this is broadly stereotyping, but it sure seems to me a viable hypothesis.

[Igel]

15. It's also split by discipline.

Most engineers I knew were repub; most social science and humanities folk were dem. Hard science folk were split, but I think tended repub, but most were mute on the matter. Fine arts trended sharply dem. Business, slightly repub. Law ... who can tell? (This is in grad school, not undergrad.) This probably varies a bit by school.

I'm loath to say that the fine arts folk (many of whom were dumb as blocks of wood) had higher IQs than the engineers, but then again, "IQ" becomes a problematic measure in that kind of comparison. Between, say, geography and engineering it's more valid since it's presumably measuring roughly the same thing for both sets of people, but I'd still hate to say there's a difference in IQ.

[bluedawg12]

17. education level and ideology

you can find a lot of info. at this Pew Poll about political typology and who people are.

I had to edit the Liberal description but we are the most highly educated- natch!!

Any way- check out the link great info.!

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=949

LIBERALS

PAST TYPOLOGY COUNTERPART: Liberal Democrats/Seculars/60's Democrats
17% OF GENERAL POPULATION
19% OF REGISTERED VOTERS

PARTY ID: 59% Democrat; 40% Independent/No Preference, 1% Republican (92% Dem/Lean Dem)

BASIC DESCRIPTION: This group has nearly doubled in proportion since 1999. Liberal Democrats now comprise the largest share of Democrats. They are the most opposed to an assertive foreign policy, the most secular, and take the most liberal views on social issues such as homosexuality, abortion, and censorship. They differ from other Democratic groups in that they are strongly pro-environment and pro-immigration.

WHO THEY ARE: Most (62%) identify themselves as liberal. Predominantly white (83%), most highly educated group (49% have a college degree or more), and youngest group after Bystanders. Least religious group in typology: 43% report they seldom or never attend religious services; nearly a quarter (22%) are seculars. More than one-third never married (36%). Largest group residing in urban areas (42%) and in the western half the country (34%). Wealthiest Democratic group (41% earn at least $75,000).

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

18. There was one statistical study, but it was discounted by the

Repugs as partisan.

The only people who were smart enough to work on the study were all Democrats.

;)

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. IQ is a failed measure

n/t

[Disturbed]

20. I got this here at DU. Don't know what Org did the stats.

IQ

AVERAGE
POP PRESIDENT
LIST STATE IQ ELECT
1 Connecticut 113 John Kerry
2 Massachusetts 111 John Kerry
3 New Jersey 111 John Kerry
4 New York 109 John Kerry
5 Rhode Island 107 John Kerry
6 Hawaii 106 John Kerry
7 Maryland 105 John Kerry
8 New Hampshire 105 John Kerry
9 Illinois 104 John Kerry
10 Delaware 103 John Kerry
11 Minnesota 102 John Kerry
12 Vermont 102 John Kerry
13 Washington 102 John Kerry
14 California 101 John Kerry
15 Pennsylvania 101 John Kerry
16 Maine 100 John Kerry
17 Virginia 100 George Bush
18 Wisconsin 100 John Kerry
19 Colorado 99 George Bush
20 Iowa 99 George Bush
21 Michigan 99 John Kerry
22 Nevada 99 George Bush
23 Ohio 99 George Bush
24 Oregon 99 John Kerry
25 Alaska 98 George Bush
26 Florida 98 George Bush
27 Missouri 98 George Bush
28 Kansas 96 George Bush
29 Nebraska 95 George Bush
30 Arizona 94 George Bush
31 Indiana 94 George Bush
32 Tennessee 94 George Bush
33 North Carolina 93 George Bush
34 West Virginia 93 George Bush
35 Arkansas 92 George Bush
36 Georgia 92 George Bush
37 Kentucky 92 George Bush
38 New Mexico 92 George Bush
39 North Dakota 92 George Bush
40 Texas 92 George Bush
41 Alabama 90 George Bush
42 Louisiana 90 George Bush
43 Montana 90 George Bush
44 Oklahoma 90 George Bush
45 South Dakota 90 George Bush
46 South Carolina 89 George Bush
47 Wyoming 89 George Bush
48 Idaho 87 George Bush
49 Utah 87 George Bush
50 Mississippi 85 George Bush

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

34. Here:

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

And here's what "Steve" says:

http://www.isteve.com/IQhoax.htm

[cantstandbush]

23. Most of the "brilliant people' have been left-leaning because

most intelligent people just want to be left the fuck alone and they want to leave others alone.

[bluedawg12]

30. brilliantly said. simple and true. n/t

[nvliberal]

36. Why in the world are we even looking at "IQ"?

Those tests originally weren't intended to measure something called "intelligence" but got perverted later on.

That's so 19th and early 20th century. We know better today.

Educational level is also not a measure of "intelligence."

[joeprogressive]

40. there was a legit study done in the 50's I believe

It concluded that conservative ideology and strong religious beliefs were correlated with lower IQ. I will search for it and get back to you.

[joeprogressive]

41. start here: Thomas Symington 1935

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-thinkingchristians.htm


There have been numerous studies that show the vast majority of PhD's are liberal.

[joeprogressive]

42. This one says Fox watchers are least informed

This one got a lot of attention a few years ago and has not been discredited to this day.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqMedia_Oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf