I am really surprised by the outrage here over the wiretaps

[Freedom_from_Chains]

I have been posting on this site for at least two years now about the Jose Pidilla case that happened in Chicago over three years ago now. You remember Jose, probably not, so let me state it again.

Jose was a US citizen who was picked up by the feds when he flew into Chicago under the dubious claim that he was part of a plot to set off a dirty bomb. Now no evidence for this was ever put forth, and in fact the government recently dropped that story, but that didn't make any difference as they still took Jose into custody, held him incommunicado, denied him access to counsel, and never arraigned him on a crime. Do you have any idea as to how many provisions of the Constitution that violates? I lost count at about six. Now they have recently charged him with some little something, which has no relation to the original reason they picked him up, but it took a couple of trips to the Supreme court and a couple of lower courts to force the regime to do that. His future legal fate still remains uncertain and he still remains behind bars.

But was there any outrage here on DU? No, I posted this story time after time and on a good day I might get 6 responses. And if I dare presented the question as to how many other Americans this might be happening to the silence was absolutely deafening.

But now that the wiretaps have been revealed everyone here on DU is surprised, shocked I tell you, just shocked. Well what did you expect, this just didn't start happening yesterday. Where was your outrage when they were locking Jose up. Oh that's right, we were all enamored with gannongate, what a non story.

Wake up people, it's time to start thinking the unthinkable.

[ClusterFreak]

1. I wouldn't take it so personally....

...sometimes you (me, you, any of us) post stuff on DU and it doesn't catch fire...what are ya gonna do??
:)

[Freedom_from_Chains]

7. I don't take it personally at all

but it concerns me greatly that such an egregious violation of our Constitution is greeted here with a ho-hum response. Isn't the Democrats suppose to be the opposition party to the rising regime. If so, then they need to start acting like one, which to date they have at best been marginal at.

[mhr]

30. Outrage Fatigue

Some of us have been here so long that we have become numb to each new outrage.

One can only write so many letters and shout or march so many times before the fingers become stiff, the throat becomes hoarse and the legs wither.

Many of us have been shouting for the last five years, the public at large did not want to hear it.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

39. And unfortunatly are still unwilling, or even unable, to hear.

[bush_is_wacko]

40. So true...and many here have lost their health as a result of

all that outrage for sooo many years.

[RagingInMiami]

2. Yeah, but with a name like Jose Padilla, was he really American?

I'M KIDDING and you're absolutely right. It's like the following poem.


First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.


Pastor Martin Niemöller

[kaygore]

4. This is never far from my mind!

[Freedom_from_Chains]

11. Which not to mention Jose was a pretty unsavory character

which just made it that much easier for the regime to dehumanize him and make it a non issue. However, I have never considered blatant abuses of our Constitution a non issue

[kaygore]

3. Law & Order and a few other shows have used the Padilla scenario

We have been out raged. That's why we have been calling and emailing and writing our Congress people to NOT renew the Patriot Act. I think that problem has been that we were told that actions such as those against Pidilla were sanctioned under the Patriot Act. Thus, we needed to get rid of the Patriot Act, which we have ben working on.

The wiretap situation has been presented from the beginning as NOT sanctioned by the Patriot Act. That's the difference. If the Pidilla situation was NOT permitted by the Patriot Act, then there has been a communication problem and disinformation (which, by now, we are becoming accustomed to, right!)

[stillcool]

5. See now...that's one person...and while his misfortune..

may elicit some empathy..the realization that it could be happening to me...right now, as I type...and I have no recourse if arrested....well, now that's a whole 'nother ballgame. Sometimes you have to bring it home to make it real. I keep being reminded of Ethel and Julius....

[Caoimhe]

6. Agreed, don't take it personally

Sometimes people have to have something specific rattle their cages to wake up. Just rejoice in the fact that people are finally waking up!!!!

[DemoTex]

8. I seeth with you friend.

And I know what you mean by the "unthinkable." I'm thinking that too. Viet Nam might have not been my last war.

[CatholicEdHead]

9. I assumed it was happening before

but now we have actual proof coming out so we do not look like tin-foil hat kooks.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

18. Well I don't know how one could call Jose's case tinfoil.

It was in all the major medias. People just didn't care. Constitutional rights, we don't need no stinking Constitutional rights.

[kansasblue]

10. F_f_C, so sorry but there's a new thing to be outraged with...

Subject: F_f_C, so sorry but there's a new thing to be outraged with...
Message:
every day.

Abu Grahib, NSA, DSM, Katrina, Plame, Gannon, Bolton, Alito....

This group is does a good job. Care for a recommendation? Don't just ask for outrage, help us by directing action somewhere. There's plenty of outrage here, but DU biggest value is when the outrage is directed toward a goal, raising money, making phone calls, emails, LTTE, protests, etc

What would help Jose the most?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

12. Well I don't know what his current legal status is

or where he is even being held at the moment, last I heard was somewhere in Maryland. But at this point I think it might be more important to be looking forward to the 06 election. As I have been saying on this board for some time, again to the roaring approval of yawns, that for 06 Democrats should not be thinking in terms of who they are going to be running for election, but more in terms of if there is going to be an election.

Think I'm kidding, I'm not.

[Stevepol]

34. May I suggest another outrage? The voting machines.

They have pretty well eliminated democracy in this country, so much so that really until they get fixed or eliminated or just AUDITED for God's sake, it doesn't do much good to expect some future election to change things. Things would already be different, far different, if the past votes had just been counted fairly: 02 and the Cleland and Mondale and other races which were pretty clearly fraudulent, and of course 04 and the Kerry victory, as well as probably others.

Sometimes the best that can be done about some of these outrages is just stay informed and inform others every chance you get, look for ways to expand the circle of those who are aware of what has happened.

Eventually the tide will turn, already has in fact. But eventually the changed tide will be so obvious and overwhelming that it will become clear what has happened and is happening with our political system.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

38. Well, as far as I am concerned that's a given

Which is why I expect for them to just eliminate the elections next.

[niallmac]

13. Scolding accepted.

I do feel acutely the sting of my (sigh) president overtly discarding the 4th amendment without so much as a fare thee well to Congress or the Supreme Court.
Jose Padilla is "everyman" in all respects. His example showed that any one of us could be hauled out of our homes to disappear forever without due process. If it can happen to one person it can happen to six million. But that is why a corporate owned media is so important to a fascist state. Television assures us constantly 24/7 that Jose is not one of us. Jose is a terrorist. Good people who pay taxes and don't demonstrate in the streets do not need to worry. Our government decided Jose was a terrorist. He wasn't worthy of our rights.
If he were me. I would have no phone call. I would have no contact with my family or counsel. I would have no publicity or ability to communicate with my fellow proles.
I would disappear.
I don't know why Jose does not register as the ultimate dead canary in the mine shaft.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

14. Thank you. n/t

[radio4progressives]

15. Excellent Post...

Please go to the ACLU website for the Freedom Files project that they have been broadcasting for more information, which every citizen needs to know.

http://www.aclu.tv/

[Freedom_from_Chains]

16. Thank you n/t

[radio4progressives]

26. don't forget about the aclu freedom files broadcast - http://www.aclu.tv/

:applause:

http://www.aclu.tv/

[AtomicKitten]

17. Whoa. I have always been vociferously outraged about Padilla.

And the fact that he has been held without charges and without legal representation for years, a disgusting afront to his constitutional rights.

Careful stepping off the soapbox.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

19. Well there have been a few, but that was my point, it was

just a few. There should have been millions protesting in front of the WH.

As for stepping off my soap box, I am quite agile on my feet. No need to worry.

[AtomicKitten]

21. I think many people are outraged.

This whole administration is one big outrage. And the outrages are piling up to the point where people are becoming numb. Not me. I weep regularly with my outrage. I am so disgusted and I weep for our country.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

23. You and me both. n/t

[Inland]

20. In fact, the jailing of padilla and the spying fit together perfectly.

What's the deterrance of the government making illegal searches? That the evidence gets thrown out at the trial and the guilty person gets away.

Bush has no intention of allowing a trial for anyone actually implicated by his illegal warrantless searches. He'll just jail them forever without trial and therefore the means of obtaining the information is irrelevant. He could be doing it today, we'd never know.

Therefore the illegal spying is predicated on there being no trial for anyone caught. One begat the other. This president isn't allowing any rights at any stage to interfere with his power.

[Old and In the Way]

22. You made 20 this time.

I think most here a pretty knowledgeable about his case and agree that his being held without charge is an outrage. I also think that he remains held because they have no basis to hold him. There is a security interest in holding him...Bush's personal security.

Problem is we got so many outrageous acts piling up, it's hard to stay focused on just one.

[gulfcoastliberal]

24. K&R - Jose, you, me - all American citizens supposedly protected by

something called the "Bill of Rights" aka Constitutional amendments against governmnet tyranny. Well, you can fucking forget about your "rights". They are GONE.

[WCGreen]

25. I was outraged that Pidilla was being held with no charges...

But, and this in no way excuses the ho hum approach to JP's illegal detention, he was a bona fide suspect in a terrorist plot and was captured right after 9/11....

Time plays a role in the responce... People are outraged about the lack of WMD's, the mounting casualties and the escalating costs of the war... Now the only reason left to peddle for going into Iraq is that we are bringing democracy to the Middle East... People see this spying on Americans by the US government as no different that what Saddam and the other thugs do around the world... That is why there is a building sense of outrage.....

[BewilderedCitizen]

27. Scandal fatigue.

On any given day there are so many things to be outraged with, that you just can't keep up. It takes something like an article in the NYT followed by * himself admitting what he did, and that he plans to keep doing it. Finally everyone can concentrate on the same scandal and you see a widespread outrage, even though it may not be one of his worse crimes.

[roguevalley]

28. my outrage over Padilla has glowed purple for years. there are so

many fires, don't take it personal that people in a burning house don't focus as much on your personal spark as you want them to.

[stickdog]

29. Jose Padilla = BushCo Dictatorship

[sendero]

31. I said the same thing to my wife...

... this morning as she left for work. Why this? I consider many things he has done to be much worse, the torture approval as a prime example.

Her response: this is a cut and dried issue. There is no wiggle room. It's like catching a gangster at tax evasion, it is easy to prove and right there.

I guess that makes a certain amount of sense, I'm as confused as anyone. I think that is part of it, and also the fact that folks are just getting fed up with Bush as more and more realize what a liar (forgivable by some) and loser (forgivable by few) he really is.

[rosesaylavee]

Your wife is right.

No wiggle room, he has admitted it, and most of congress (both sides of the aisle) are outraged. I think this is what it is going to take to convince the American People as a whole that this man is trying to be our first dictator.

[Vinca]

32. Well, silly me.

All along I thought they were GETTING WARRANTS!

[mzmolly]

33. People were outraged, but if the media doesn't pick up a story

we haven't much to post about. Jose Padilla was probably a casuality of the "wire tapping" fiasco? We'll have to wait and see.

As for DU being shocked about wire tapping, I don't think that's the case, I think DU is shocked that OTHERS (the media/talking heads) are shocked.

[info being]

35. That's a really good point

When the mainstream media picks it up, it becomes more real in an actionable way. We have an audience, so to speak.

[mzmolly]

37. And, we have various sources to post different takes on a situation.

Chris Matthews is doing a show on this tonight for example, and THAT will likely spur some discussion?

[Toots]

36. I have been in a constant state of outrage for over five years

I have been thinking the unthinkable since the 2000 coup.....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. I've been trying to tell people about this case for years, and

the reactions I get include:

"But what if he's really guilty?"

"He's just a worthless gangbanger. He's probably guilty of something."

"It's just one person. It doesn't mean they're going to do it to everybody."

"They wouldn't hold him unless there was a good reason. We don't live in a dictatorship."

:banghead:

The point is Jose Padilla is a U.S. citizen who was held incommunicado and without charges for three years. If they can do it to him, they can do it to anyone. He's the trial balloon. If no one stops them--just as too few Germans protested the first anti-Jewish laws in the 1930s--it will embolden the BFEE and inspire them to try more repression.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

42. I think you have successfully listed all the rationals

that people use to justify this as no big thing which is the part that I find truly frighting. The lack of understand the average American about the abuse of power and just how tenuous their freedoms are is mind boodling.