Wow, just watched Kerry's OK rally

[Cheswick2.0]

If I read a transcript instead I would swear I was reading a Howard Dean stump speech. Kerry was talking about spending more on prisons than schools. He was talking about about bush cutting overtime and the labor department sending out information on how employers can keep from paying overtime to those who are still eligible.
He was even plagiarizing bush "bring it on" and "mission accomplished".
What will happen if Kerry actually gets the nomination? Who will write his material for him? More importantly, who will say it first to make sure it's safe and plays well in Peoria?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Imitation Is The Sincerest Form Of Flattery....

It worked for * in 00 when he stole John McCain's theme and became a "reformer with results".



"Just win... baby..."

[Cheswick2.0]

2. yup and look what a lousy president Bush turned out to be

there is more to it than winning, governing for instance

[AntiCoup2K4]

43. And Junior campaigned on a platform that wasn't his....

...then acted entirely different once the Supreme Court made their decision. The compassionate moderate "uniter not divider" immediately appointed the most extremist right wing pro corporatist cabinet in history, with each appointment being the bizarro world opposite of what should have been appointed to that position. An ex governor with a shitty environmental record as head of the EPA, for example. Or a man so right wing he thinks calico cats are agents of Satan as Attorney General.


Now we have Kerry, the DLC's chosen nominee stealing Howard Dean's message. If Kerry should win (which is not very likely) how much of it will he remember on January 21, 2005?

[jpgpenn]

3. funny you mention Kerry and "plagiarzing"

Back some months ago during 1 of the debates Kerry also "plagiarized" Clark. Clark said words to the effect...."if you want to use assault weapons, join the Army".

Of course Clark said this much earlier on tv and also at rallies.Kerry found it convenient to steal for himself.


edit; text fix

[Cheswick2.0]

4. Hey, whatever works I guess

:shrug:

[jpgpenn]

6. apparently Kerry finds taking words from others

to be a simple way to save time or make him come off better or maybe it's his lack of quote making ability or maybe....

NAH it's just wrong and it shows him in his true light!

[JVS]

21. He has to imitate others because left to his own devices he flip-flops

Imitation is his only path to consistency.

[vi5]

5. Politics is like music.....it's all been done before.....

In case everyone's forgotten, Dean was quite fond of using the "Democratic wing of the democratic party line", which correct e if I'm wrong was not something he came up with himself.

[maddezmom]

7. nope that's his and his alone

don't think anyone is going to copy that line :)

[vi5]

8. Um....no....that was Wellstone's line....

That Dean has been very fond of using on the campaign trail, at least early on. Which I always found curious because if he's not a liberal and wasn't trying to position himself as one, then what exactly was he trying to convey by using the tag line of one of the most liberal senators ever?

Like I said, I don't begrudge him that because it's all fair game but to make like anyone is saying anything original is a bit silly.

[maddezmom]

9. yup your right

guess I was thinking about the line, " Republican wing of the Democratic Party".

[jpgpenn]

10. you are right about that

It was Wellstone's line.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. umm no Dean said it first

thank you though

[charlie]

15. Um noooo, it was Wellstone

You should know that.

[sventvkg]

14. Yea but Dean Gave credit to Wellstone for the quote there bro...

that's the Diff...by the Way Kerry just strikes me as such a boob, fraud with zero ability to rally the Base..maybe we will win anyway because Bush has rallied our Base for him!! But it's certainly not going to be Kerry that gets us all out there to vote...What a let down...Just more uninspiring, establishment talking heads who are most of the reason our country is so Fucked up to being with..I'm out of this Defunct Party after November for good because I can no longer stand the Hypocracy...It's sickening. Have a Nice Day!

[blm]

24. So you hate the one guy who exposed more government corruption than any

other lawmaker alive?

The guy that helped END three wars?

Are you FOR government corruption going unchecked?

You don't find him inspiring, but thankfully, those of us who understand the seriousness of defeating the BFEE do support John Kerry. More Democrats across the country are inspired by him apparently than you would like.

[hilzoy]

39. Which three wars

would those be?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. Let's see....

Pick from one of these post-1970 US wars or conclicts:

OMAN
1970
Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.

LAOS
1971-73
Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.

SOUTH DAKOTA (semi-domestic)
1973
Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas on native land.

MIDEAST
1973
Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.

CHILE
1973
Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected president.

ANGOLA
1976-92
Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.

IRAN
1980
Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.

LIBYA
1981
Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot

EL SALVADOR
1981-92
Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.

NICARAGUA
1981-90
Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.

LEBANON
1982-84
Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim and Syrian positions.

HONDURAS
1983-89
Troops
Maneuvers help build bases near borders.

GRENADA
1983-84
Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.

IRAN
1984
Jets
Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.

LIBYA
1986
Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't.

BOLIVIA
1986
Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.

IRAN
1987-88
Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.

LIBYA
1989
Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.

VIRGIN ISLANDS
1989
Troops
St. Croix Black unrest after storm.

PHILIPPINES
1989
Jets
Air cover provided for government against coup.

PANAMA
1989-90
Troops, bombing
Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.

LIBERIA
1990
Troops
Foreigners evacuated during civil war.

SAUDI ARABIA
1990-91
Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait; 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.

IRAQ
1990-?
Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military. Kuwait royal family returned to throne.

SOMALIA
1992-94
Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.

YUGOSLAVIA
1992-94
Naval
Nato blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.

BOSNIA
1993-95
Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.

HAITI
1994-96
Troops, naval
Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.

CROATIA
1995
Bombing
Krajina Serb airfields attacked before Croatian offensive.

ZAIRE (CONGO)
1996-97
Troops
Marines at Rwandan Hutu refuge camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.

ALBANIA
1997
Troops
Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

SUDAN
1998
Missile attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.

AFGHANISTAN
1998
Missile attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.

IRAQ
1998-?
Bombing, Missiles
Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.

YUGOSLAVIA
1999-?
Bombing, Missiles
Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo.

MACEDONIA
2001
Troops
NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels.

AFGHANISTAN
2001
Massive U.S. mobilization to attack Taliban, Bin Laden. War could expand to Iraq, Sudan, and beyond.

IRAQ
2003-Present

?

[NashVegas]

37. Actually, It's Not Even Wellstone's

Some woman in California coined it. Dean asked her for permission to use it.

I think Kerry's just pissed cause he didn't think of it first.

[dansolo]

35. That line is *NOT* about being a liberal

Ironically enough, the line had to do with the influence of special interests, which has now become a significant issue with John Kerry. Take a look at the the following article on Paul Wellstone:

http://www.opendemocracy.net/themes/article-10-673.jsp

"When Paul considered running for president in 2000, he traveled to Iowa, announcing that he was the candidate of the ‘Democratic wing of the Democratic Party’. He was in open revolt against the money wing, warning that the party could not thrive compromised by the same entrenched interests that fund Republicans. He was a small ‘d’ democrat, a warrior for democracy. He pushed to get big money out of politics, to limit the ability of lobbyists to curry favor with gifts and trips."

Doesn't that sound an awful lot like Dean's message?

[andym]

46. The sentiment goes back a long ways

For example, in 1992, Jerry Brown ran the "we the people campaign"
on the premise that he would return govt to the people.

Interestingly, he refused more than $100/donor.

[Leilani]

48. Actually, getting rid of special interests

was McCain's main message in 2000, along with campaign finance reform,

as the 2 were intertwined.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. I would hope that every Democrat is criticizing the Bush scheme

to end overtime pay, saying we need to end the war in Iraq, repeal the PATRIOT Act, have universal health care, improve our schools, figure out why we have so many people in prison, realize that unemployment is a serious problem and that we need to end NAFTA and go back to fair trade agreements, etc.

Democrats should all be on the same page a good part of the time. Core values are what party membership is supposed to reflect.

[Cheswick2.0]

13. adopting someone else's ideas after they are pretested is not leading

many of the things Kerry is standing against are thing he either voted for or defended.

[jpgpenn]

16. This is so so TRUE

This is a regular pattern with Kerry in almost everything he does.

[seaglass]

17. I have no idea why you think any of these issues

are original ideas - they have been fairly prominent in the news. So, is he not supposed to mention them because Dean already did? Dean doesn't own the overtime issue or any of these issues.

Maybe, because the Boston Globe just published a front page report a month or two ago that MA is actually paying more on prisons than schools he thought it was an issue to talk about. Did the Globe steal it from Howard Dean?

[Hav]

18. .

He didn't use Bush's line and Mission Accomplished because it sounds so great or because it worked so great when Bush said it.He used them to attack Bush.
But hey,use whatever it takes to defeat the Democrat.
Whoever will get the nomination, I can't wait for threads calling for unity among the Democrats.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. Well, yes, and Dean "discovered" BBV about

three months after Kucinich had protected a group of Swarthmore students investigating the matter by putting their findings on his website.

Candidates are inevitably going to cover the same issues. If they're in the same party and that means anything, they should.

[Zomby Woof]

31. and that, Lydia

Is why :yourock:

[blm]

20. He's been talking about those issues eloquently for over a year.

You really never noticed or are you just kidding us, Ches?

Good thing that the people of Iowa and NH heard him loud and clear.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. What's changed is, you're listening. Kerry's saying the same thing

he's been saying all along. The difference is, now people are listening.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

23. Kerry was talking about spending more on prisons than schools?

WHAAAA?
So maybe Howard Dean was right--Kerry IS a Republican!

;)

[Southsideirish]

25. Excellent observation. The republicans always say Clinton stole

their agenda, too but "Howard the Brave" won't let Kerry get away with it.

[milkyway]

26. We're always hearing what a deep thinker Kerry is, why does it seem

when listening to him that there isn't an original thought in his head? Candidates are always shifting and appropriating stuff from others to a certain degree, but Kerry is so blatant about it. He doesn't even bother to change the words much.

[molly]

27. How about just a handful of examples?

[blm]

28. I dare you to read Kerry's foreign policy and environmental speeches and

then read Dean's given afterwards.

Then I dare you to come back here and post your honest assessment.

Other Dean supporters have done this and admitted the similarities in the positions Dean took from Kerry who has actually studied these issues in depth for well over 30 years.

Kerry KNOWS environmental science better than any other politician. Dean couldn't even get an endorsement from the Sierra Club for any of his campaigns. Yet you believe Kerry stole ideas from Dean? Hahahahah

[joshcryer]

36. It's not who had the ideas first, it's who said them...

...as a Presidential candidate first. You go back and read Kerry's early speeches. None of this shit came up to the effect that it is now.

[bigtree]

29. Thanks for listening

:7

[mzmolly]

30. OMG. He sounds like he says the shit verbatim.

Just when you think he couldn't get any more blatent.

[IndianaGreen]

32. Kerry is the DLC's "Phoney Deal"

And the DLC is going to really hate the Left when we begin agitating next year for an immediate disengagement from Iraq, an end to Plan Colombia, closing down SOA, end aggression against Venezuela, etc. Should I mention globalism?

[David Dunham]

33. DEAN IS GOING DOWN; KERRY IS TOPS

[Andromeda]

47. Not for long....

:evilgrin:

[Cocoa]

34. Dean has been ripping from Gephardt

using his "we're all connected" thing.

I'm waiting for him to start claiming his dad drove a milk truck. :-)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

38. Yeah, he saw JFK pilot a boat, become war hero....

:think:

[progressivebydesign]

40. Why does Kerry do that?

It's really irritating! What exactly are Kerry's OWN ideas for taking our country back? I'm sure he's lifted that "take our country back" phrase too, hasn't he?

[Lobo_13]

42. Because he's an honorless

cowardly Washington politician, ne'er do well, "me too" Democrat?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. Actually, I did hear him say in NH:

"...give back the country..." in one of his speeches. (On file at C-Span)


He was still working out the kinks.

[Zomby Woof]

45. all's fair

Dean supporters were waving some signs recently that ripped off DK's "Hope/Fear" dichotomy. You didn't see Dk supporters complaining - we're used to Dean ripping off everyone.