Cynthia Mc.Kinney, making no friends with Democrats

[killerbush]

Things between Rep. Cynthina Mc.Kinney, and her House Democrats, have become so strained, the her and House leader Nancy Pelosi no longer talk to each other, causing many of the Democratic side to say she has become a huge distraction.

Some Dems, speaking on the cloak of anonymity say that Mc.Kinney is not representing herself well, and wish she would drop the "race baiting" she is well known for.

Says one moderate Democrat, "There has been a lot of eye rolling. The national attention it's getting is very unfortunate and highly distracting" He added, "This isn't the view Democrats want to project in the tough races, one of the victims and race baiting".

One Of Mc.Kinney's aides, Coz Carson, came to her defense saying that she has always been outspoken, and will continue to be a force about issues of race, and will defend herself against these baseless assaults on her character.

http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/news/Frontpage/040406/news4.html

[shance]

1. I love it. Race baiting. So easy to say when we're white and privileged.

You stop "race baiting" and telling the truth Cynthia.

We have more money and power than you and we can destroy you like we're doing right now.

SHOW US THE VIDEO.

[qazplm]

7. I'm black and not so privileged

and she was wrong to interject race here.

She over-reacted and now instead of saying hey I overreacted to a touch and apologize, she's turned it into some grand conspiracy against her.

She aint that big of a deal for this to have happened, and if she were, why now, why not wait until closer to the election?

[jus_the_facts]

24. So she's just uppity and has deserved all the shit piled on her.......

....for havin' the intestinal fortitude to speak out about and against what's happened since 9/11?! She IS a BIG DEAL from my perspective... and must be such a big deal that these things amazingly keep happening to smear her RIGHT into JAIL.

I'm not so trusting of the media to believe the massive SPIN and allegations against her being a race-baiter...she's spoken for ME time and again with TRUTH that only a few will utter in Washington these days...I'll not abandon her now...she's got MORE guts for saying what needs to be said but instead she's accused of being called crazy and inept...hmmm.

Strange times are these in which we live when the old and the young are taught falsehoods in the schools of learning. And the one person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and a fool. ~PLATO~

[LittleClarkie]

49. But the person you're replying to is black, so isn't using the word uppity

Sorta out of place. Surely the person you're replying to isn't saying that at all.

But if McKinney has called Al Gore racist, then I'm thinking that maybe she does pull out that card just a tad too much.

[jus_the_facts]

56. Merrium-Webster Dictionary.....

Main Entry: up·pi·ty
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: '&-p&-te
Etymology: probably from up + -ity (as in persnickity, variant of persnickety)
: putting on or marked by airs of superiority : ARROGANT , PRESUMPTUOUS <uppity technicians> <a small uppity country>
- up·pi·ti·ness also up·pi·ty·ness noun


.....assume a tad too much?

[LittleClarkie]

58. It has connotations beyond that definition

So it does seem odd to suggest that a black person is suggesting that a black person is being "uppity" when the word is often associated with race.

Wasn't that why you picked it in the first place? Because of the racial connotations of the word?

...play innocent a tad too much?

[jus_the_facts]

60. Excuse you for assuming that I'm a race-baiter...

....and your insinuation and assumptions are WRONG yet again...thanks for trying to BAIT me into your idea of what I meant instead of paying one iota to anything ELSE I stated.

[LittleClarkie]

67. Nah, just questioning your use of a word with certain connotations

If that wasn't your intention, you mighta wanted a different one.

[jus_the_facts]

72. They said 'privileged'...I said 'uppity'...

....privileged means...having or enjoying one or more privileges...not subject to the usual rules or penalties because of some special circumstance...

....uppity MEANS...putting on or marked by airs of superiority...

...regardless of any connotations you want to subscribe to or assume any meaning on my part.

And as far as Gore is concerned...if she DID actually call him a racist..since you only HEARD about her doing so...maybe it had something to do with THIS TRUTH...which I've vocalized MY OWN doubt and disgust repeatedly...as to why this happened the way it did....

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16

FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Congressional Black Caucus members tried to object to the election outcome on the floor of the House; no Senator would sign the objections.

“While Vice President Al Gore appeared to have accepted his fate contained in two wooden ballot boxes, Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus tried repeatedly to challenge the assignment of Florida's 25 electoral votes to Bush…. More than a dozen Democrats followed suit, seeking to force a debate on the validity of Florida's vote on the grounds that all votes may not have been counted and that some voters were wrongly denied the right to vote.” Susan Milligan, “It’s Really Over: Gore Bows Out Gracefully,” Boston Globe, January 7, 2001.
The Congressional Black Caucus effort failed for “lack of the necessary signature by any senator.” Sen. Minority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD) had previously advised Democratic senators not to cooperate. ‘They did not.’” Robert Novak, “Sweeney Link Won't Help Chao,” Chicago Sun-Times, January 14, 2001.


IS THERE A SENATOR IN THE HOUSE?

When Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus stood up and opposed the assignment of Florida's 25 electoral votes to Bush, why didn't a single senator step up to sign the objections? Why do you suppose Sen. Minority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD) advised them not to cooperate?



So in conlusion...in my own defense against your allegations of my intent...I've posted repeatedly how the REASON I decided to even register to vote initally was to keep DAVID DUKE from becoming the Gov. of Louisiana when he ran back in the early 90's....so please don't go assuming you know my heart or mind...peace.

[BoneDaddy]

31. Thank you for some sense

The problem with any kind of race baiting is that if you are wrong, you diminish the situations where it is real. I am tired of simple criticism of anyone who may be a member of a disenfranchised group being considered racist or sexist when it might simply be a conflict. If you are wrong you are wrong, plain and simple and all the inflammatory rhetoric can't help ya.

I still am a McKinney fan, however.

[coalition_unwilling]

50. I heard Sheila Jackson Lee on "Democracy Now" this morning

saying she had had the same experiences multiple times and that the exact same phenomenon has happened in the Georgia state caital on numerous occasions (where white security guards fail to recognize black legislators who don't have their IDs with them).

I'm white, but I can understand (I think) how truly awful I would feel if I were accosted like a common criminal while my white colleagues were given a free pass.

[laugle]

76. All I know is if you or I had smacked that guy in the head

with a cell phone, we would surely be in jail now!!

I think she set a bad example by using violence instead of just identifying herself.

[radio4progressives]

18. exactly.. so easy to say when there is no video .. so easy to say when

they already dispise her specifically (because of her outspoken positions against the War, on 9/11, and the Patriot Act, as well as what happened in New Orleans/Katrina...

Whie Supremacy is very important, it's okay to have a few token AA's in the House - they are ghettoized in the House of Representatives by these goddam racists assholes!

the Congressional Black Congress has to fight harder than others to get on the floor, the Democratic Party IGNORES their bills, their amendments, time on the floor for debate, and serious responses, and on and on and on

I'm sickened by the racists screeds posted about her and if this is what DU is going to be about.. that would be a very sad state of affairs.


:argh:

[jus_the_facts]

2. Oh the HUMANITY...how DARE she be vocal about anything....

...especially when it flies in the face of the DINO's/GOP agenda. :eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

11. Why, you know she's not only black but she's also

<gasp> a woman. Black Women want to be too strong and powerful. When they speak their mind straight up, it not only frightens the white masters but also the "traditional" men in the ranks.

[LittleClarkie]

55. Oh, she's a black WOMAN. Well alright then.

She can beat up as many cops as she likes in that case.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

3. DLC Democrats, no doubt....

whose mantra is "sit down, shut up, and don't make waves while the GOP fuck the country in the ass sans lube". :eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

6. right, oh, and don't punch cops

[jus_the_facts]

15. That's what's called an ALLEGATION...where's your proof?

...just word from the MEDIA? They're soooo upstanding and forthright it must be TRUE! :eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

20. Right, they are considering an arrest warrent for nothing.

Pahleeze.

You are as bad as the Bush apologists with your coddling of bad behavior.

[jus_the_facts]

26. If it's all TRUE then why are they STILL just considering arresting her...

....if it WAS she'd have been arrested on the spot. Don't be so condesending in your ASSupmtions Pahleeze! :eyes:

[laugle]

77. Could it be because she is a congresswoman??

[Pithy Cherub]

29. The innocent until proven guilty portion of the bill of rights

applies equally. Unless one speciously judges that an arrest makes one guilty absent a trial.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

37. Burn the witch! BURN her!

No evidence needed here on DU, thank-you-very-much.

[movonne]

4. These are the wimpy dems...I don't see repugs doing this..they

stand behind delay,ney,brownie, etc..they don't through more shit at them. We must get very progressive dems in office before we can change this country for the better..

[ShortnFiery]

45. Yes, the republican cyborgs follow Saint Regan's first LAW

Do not disparage a fellow republican. Well, unless they don't meet Rove-Cos criteria and are too moderate.

No, we should never be like that and feel free to disagree among ourselves here at DU. I even respect those moderates who disagree with me. Really - I know you are a part of OUR party.

However, we are at a CRISIS POINT at this time in our fledgling American history. The only humble request that I would make is that when the Rove-Co. machine swings into full action, I beg you moderates to please please, hesitate from chiming in with these smarmy bastards?

Remember McKinney was one of the FEW representatives who spoke out for an investigation into 9/11. If she is destroyed it will send a CHILL across this country: Best not speak out against the powers that be.

Please don't jump on the Rove-Co. "swift boat" MACHINE?

[AtomicKitten]

5. Hard to believe DU is split on this.

This is Ms. McKinney's fourth altercation with the police regarding this same issue because she admittedly refuses to wear the identifying pin. It seems if anyone is doing the baiting, it is Ms. McKinney. And she punctuated it by punching a cop.

No wonder people are rolling their eyes.

[killerbush]

8. AtomicKitten, I agree

:eyes: :eyes:

[beaconess]

65. There's a reason that Members where an ID pin

Because no one can expect the Capitol Police to recognize every single one of the 535 Members at all times. Failing to recognize one - especially one who changed her hairstyle (a hairstyle that was very distinctive and recognizable) - does not make one a racist or suggest that he was treating her like a criminal.

The only thing more annoying to me than Black folk behaving badly then blaming the consequences on racism is how so many other folk jump on thier bandwagon without discernment.

[IselaB]

9. Why the hell are people still talking about this?

Of all the things to be focused on right now. This is a total non-issue.

[killerbush]

10. hardly IselaB

Mc.Kinney did this to herself. We have to be fair because if Mc.Kinney were a Republican, we would be all over 24/7

[ShortnFiery]

13. I can't help but wonder ... oh how busy busy the smear campaign

is taken off. Oh, I can smell the INDIGNATION! How dare that uppity black bitch not know her place and submit to THE MAN.

Wow, I'm in awe at the vicious nature ... we MUST PUT HER IN HER PLACE.

Although the sexism and racism are covert, they are still PRIME FACTORS in this smear campaign.

It will blow up in their faces because many of us non-investor class peons LOVE HER support for us wage slave little people.

God Bless Cynthia McKinney! Also My Hero.

[AtomicKitten]

14. Oh, please. Crying wolf about racism dilutes the real racial

outrage such as occurred during Katrina.

Shame.

[ShortnFiery]

16. It's not crying wolf, she's been harrassed before. It has both

tones of sexism as well as racism and we will NOT be silenced by the smear campaign.

[AtomicKitten]

17. Harassed?

She ADMITTED she refuses to wear the identifying pin required per protocol and, again, this is her fifth altercation regarding that issue.

And she punched a cop. Most people are arrested for that behavior.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize she was special and above the law. My bad.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

23. She PUNCHED a cop??

Would you please kindly point out just where it is alleged Ms. McKinney PUNCHED a cop? Other then FOX news, of course. :eyes:

Talk about bullshit...

[ShortnFiery]

27. I have been dirt poor and I know from that experience that

there are BAD COPS. Those folks who have been blessed to live their entire live within the Middle Class don't see when this happens. I have, up front and personal. No, I've never been arrested but many good people I've known have - and for nothing.

Believe it or not, there is a percentage of cops, not large, but significant, who honestly "get off" at throwing their power around.

Nope, I'm a child of the 70s and I remember my older siblings protesting the travesty that was the Vietnam War.

You don't want to hear the stories of my African American friends who's only crime was "driving while black" in the wrong neighborhoods.

No, I do not unconditionally love Big Brother. Respect goes both ways. I would also like to believe that any professional Capitol Hill Police Officer would recognize a five term congresswoman by sight.

[AtomicKitten]

32. Until film at 11:00 is released ...

... let me ask you this. What the hell difference does it make? If you or I punched, shoved, or even disobeyed an order by a cop, we would be thrown in jail.

If Al Gore submitted to being searched at airports, you bet your ass I expect Ms. Kinney to stop when she is asked by a guard that doesn't see her wearing the proper ID. That's his job. And whatever she did in return other than stop was not appropriate.

Get it? Of course not.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

36. "Punched a cop" and...

touching/poking a cop when turning around to find out who the heck had grabbed her (I have seen both alleged) could be two radically different things, and if you don't see that you need to get real. :eyes:

You are the one who characterised her as "punching a cop" -- and seem to have made up their mind about Cynthia McKinney and the situation without a single shred of evidence put forth from either side.

[AtomicKitten]

42. ah, yeah, there were witnesses.

But you go right ahead and drink the kool-aid and continue to back a clearly illegal action. And just remember that had a Republican done this, there would be quite the opposite response here at DU, and that's called hypocrisy. If we can't conduct ourselves with honor and, for chrissakes, except our leaders to obey the law, than we are no better than our corrupt opposition.

I'm done with you apologists for bad behavior.

Have a fabulous day.

[Karenina]

80. WHERE are the witnesses?

The Mighty Wurlitzer got many a-willin' to crank it!

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

Good Luck with your campaign!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

38. "Until film at 11:00 is released.."

... you should just really refrain from spouting the "Cynthia McKinney punched a cop" as if it is gospel.

[coalition_unwilling]

52. It's not that she was stopped. It's that there is a double standard

when cops are white and congresspeople are black.

[beaconess]

68. What proof do you have of this?

I've personally seen white Congressmen stopped by Capitol Police who did not recognize them. they are issued pins for a reason - because the cops don't always recognize them on sight. McKinney was not wearing her pin. What proof do you have that the cop stopped her because she's black and that he would not have stopped any white Member whom he did not recognize and who was not wearing their Member pin?

If you have none, please don't claim double standard.

[coalition_unwilling]

81. I'll defer to your personal experience on this issue. But

McKinney (and Sheila Jackson Lee's) point is that the white capital police do recognize white members of congress and do not recognize black members of congress. If true, in that sense, it is a double standard (whites recognize whites but don't recognize blacks).

[ronnykmarshall]

12. A loose cannon! Out of control!!

G'on Cynthia!

[madmom]

19. "some dems, speaking on the cloak of anonymity", "Says one

moderate democrat" if they can't prove who says these things IMO they are lying! It's like all repuke ploys someone said- they wish to remain anonymous- etc. etc. etc. just don't get it.

[rman]

21. selfdelete

[rman]

22. Interesting how "some Dems" = "the Dems", and how

"some" anonymous Dems managed to do "a lot" of eye-rolling.


McKinney is distraction, say the Dems
By Josephine Hearn
http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/040406/news4.html

The bizarre scuffle Wednesday between Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga.) and an unnamed U.S. Capitol Police officer is winning the spirited congresswoman few new friends in her caucus. In fact, some Democrats are trying to distance themselves from her.

McKinney has been aggressively publicizing the incident, calling press conferences on each of the past two business days and even attracting a mention on the front page of The New York Times, something that the dozens of House and Senate Democrats combined couldn’t match when they unveiled their homeland-security plan last week.

Now, with McKinney facing a possible arrest warrant, the media frenzy is set only to escalate. The U.S. Capitol Police referred the issue to the U.S. District Attorney’s office for prosecution yesterday.

<snip>

“There’s been a lot of eye-rolling,” said an aide to a moderate Democrat who spoke on condition of anonymity. “The national attention it’s been getting has been unfortunate. It’s becoming a distraction.”

[ClassWarrior]

28. Excellent point. This is "Fox Attribution"...

"Some people allege..."

If you haven't already, borrow the "Outfoxed" DVD from your local library. (http://www.outfoxed.org)

NGU.

[rman]

30. I know; "some people say", "experts say", "govt officials say"

etc.
Deliberatly vague and suggestive, appealing to emotions rather than to rational thought - of which i see a lot here on DU today.

If you like "Outfoxed" you might also like "Spin"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114512/
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7dhyg/id3.html

[itzamirakul]

39. If Democratic politicians are turning their backs on McKinney and

"rolling their eyes" at her behavior, it is only because she makes them feel guilty at their own fear of standing up to the lies of this administration.

[LittleClarkie]

53. I rolled my eyes

when I heard she'd called Gore a racist.

O-B-K-B.

[AtomicKitten]

64. they aren't listening to you

that in itself should be a clue

I hear you.

[beaconess]

74. Or maybe they don't think that everything that every black person does

is a-ok.

Interesting that you are now attacking every other Black Member of Congress, civil rights leader and other blacks who haven't spoken up in her defense as weak Uncle Toms.

[ClassWarrior]

25. Yeah, "she ought to get in her place," huh?...

HEAVY
:sarcasm:

NGU.

[ieoeja]

33. I'll bite. Yes, she SHOULD get in her place.

After 9-11 they came up with a whole bunch of worthless security procedures where I work. And my "place" within that apparatus is following those security procedures. I have no doubt that if I tried forcing my way into work without following those security procedures, the guards would attempt to restrain me while they called the police.

McKinney ADMITTED to her refusal to follow security procedures. So what is her beef?

[rman]

34. Her beef is being accused of assaulting a police officer

Unlike so many of McKinney's critics today seem to think, she is not being accused of not following security procedures.

[laugle]

79. I say make them ALL go through the metal detector, I'm tired

of the priviledged few!

BINGO--PROBLEM SOLVED!!

[McCamy Taylor]

35. This Democrat is proud that McKinney is a Dem!

[killerbush]

40. I have mixed feelings on Mc.Kinney

I like her moxie, but hate it when she uses race as a crutch

[Generator]

41. You know what?

This just made me go off. For all the fucking nothing the whites in the Senate and Congress have done for Black people-fuck you Nancy Pelosi. Fuck 'em all. They don't give a shit if the Black people in Ohio or Florida get to vote. No, they care about being "tough on the war on terror." They let the biggest fucking lie EVER stand-and the Iraq war is bad enough. I'm talking that little thing called 9/11. They enable this president. They are complicit. And yeah, Cynthia McKinney was probably uppity and in the wrong in her incident. BFD. She's mad. She's tired. I can relate. It gets a little frustrating seeing your government a cesspool of lies while they all just "want to get along". Be civilized. Never quit. Never stop saying what you believe. The only people that have supported ME have been the blacks in congress. The black caucus. The only ones with integrity. I'd rather have a hundred uppity McKinney's for one buttoned lying abetter Pelosi.


What have the last two elections been about anyway? Making sure the Black votes didn't count. Race baiting indeed. God, I'm WHITER than White and it just makes me furious. A female Al Sharpton? FINE..better than a mealy mouthed Obama.

[ShortnFiery]

51. Excellent Rant Generator ... I understand your angst and frustration ...

I have hope that this smear campaign will backfire. I sure hope those who convinced me to vote for Kerry for President, respect the left who supports McKinney? We have complied time and time again to the DLC's directives with no delivery but criticisms to our ranks. Please, even if she's not your kind of "decorum - dignified image" of a politician, please don't harp in with the GOP Smear Campaigns?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

59. The Congressional Black Causus...

has been carrying the water for us all for 5 years now. I count them all as among our country's true heroes. :patriot:

[beaconess]

75. But now some DUers are calling them Uncle Toms because they're

not falling on their swords for Cynthia McKinney.

[AtomicKitten]

62. That's right -- keep mixing up REAL outrages with fake ones.

The outrage of the suppression of the 2000 black vote and the appalling lack of response to Katrina gets diluted when this bullshit dubious cause gets added to the mix.

Nice work.

[bpilgrim]

43. yeah, she really upsets the status quo and why she is considered a HERO

2 many and especially on DU...

check out this poll to see the overwhelming majority support her...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x829786

peace

[AtomicKitten]

44. that proves only that

DU is inhabited by people obssessed with causes rather than seeking the truth.

There is no honor in backing someone who has broken the law. That's pack mentality that is wrong and dishonorable.

[ShortnFiery]

46. "DU is inhabited by people obssessed with causes ..."

:wtf: over?

[bpilgrim]

47. du is waaay ahead of everyone else... has been for years

the M$M and the ELITE can't spin their BS here, we got a paper trail :evilgrin:

look at you, you have already judged her and DU guilty :eyes:

peace

[AtomicKitten]

63. And isn't that a double-edge sword?

Wonderful activism mixed with this bullshit.

[bpilgrim]

66. standing up for our reps is all part of the wonderful activism

fyi

peace

[AtomicKitten]

70. even when they are wrong -- just like freepers -- we're better than that

[bpilgrim]

78. standing up for your rep is not wrong

peace

[win_in_06]

48. We will hear a lot about Ms. McKinney in October

She will be featured in GOP campaign commercials.

[Vidar]

54. Let's see McKinney or Pelosi,,,,,,,,bye Nancy.

[Trevelyan]

57. Compare McKinney to the cowardly dems who don't represent us

There is a C-Span video of McKinney on prisonplanet, lost URL but was posted last week. The video shows McKinney aggressively questioning rumsfeld on the Dyncorp human trafficking, the $$$2 trillion that the Pentagon lost and 911 inconsitencies. She was great and the chairman kept stepping in to protect crumbsfeld from the questioning and calling McKinney "This young lady..." it was outrageous. A must see to find out why McKinney is having all these problems.

Go to her site to read her version of these events and also info on other subjects including the fact that she came home (I think from visiting the Gulf Katrina victims) to her home "toilet papered" with VIDEO TAPE???

She wrote that someone wanted her to know they know where she lives. McKinney has a guestbook that you can sign with your comments of support.

She has been the thorn in the side of bushco and if DU would talk about her efforts to defend America, you would understand why this is happening.

Before the outrageous redistricting which McKinney talks about on her site, that cost her her seat in Congress, but she was courageous enough to win it back, McKinney was the only Congressperson officially questioning the bushco fairy tale of 911 events and MCKINNEY'S QUESTIONS WERE DELETED FROM THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD.

Her call for IMPEACHING bush after Katrina was also deleted from the official record as McKinney published her second speech about this on Belacio.com and Rense.com because the left blogs have not been covering her courageous actions. The MS_NBC vid linked from Belacio shows McKinney as the only Dem who did not boycott the Katrina hearings listening as Christopher Shays insults and calls the Katrina victims telling their stories "liars". Why again did the dems boycott the Katrina hearings, their recent more than usual cowardice in passing the Patriot Act without Feingold's amendments to protect our rights, the Alito and Roberts votes, not supporting Feingold's censure and on and on.

THERE IS NO DEMOCRATIC PARTY, ONLY A VERY FEW HONORABLE AND COURAGEOUS PEOPLE LIKE MCKINNEY, HINCHY, CONYERS, FEINGOLD.

[radio4progressives]

61. Feingold doesn't appear to have any friends among the same Class

Relations are very strained between Feingold and the DSCC ...

hmmm...

[McCamy Taylor]

69. Does this thread seem designed to split Dems the way the GOP is split?

I supsect that most Dems support Rep. McKinney, or at least her right to walk around the security check point unmolested the way that all other Congress members do so.

I have to wonder if this issue is being exploited to split Democrats. The GOP has managed to split their own base through their own ineptitude (SS, the War, Dubai, Immigration). They seem to have told their radio hate mongers to start using nasty anti-African-American hate speech to cater to the GOP conservative base. This speech also gets the Dems riled up. We confront Limbaugh and Borzt, which makes the conservative base see us as the party of "them. This cause some Democrats who lack scruples and spines to say that we should keep our mouths shut in the face of this kind of provocation.

I say "Hell no!" to everyone involved in the political game. Real people are being hurt so that politicians can keep their phoney-baloney jobs.

[brentspeak]

73. "this issue is being exploited to split Democrats"

You certainly got that right. Look at all the flame-baiting threads being started here, including this one.

[leesa]

71. Some say....what crap this is. I wouldn't speak to Pelosi either given

the huge wimp factor...