Need some rebuttals to the GOP = Christian theory

[SunDrop23]

A coworker is adamant that I can't be a "good Christian" and a Democrat, because Democrats are "for abortion, for gays..." yadda yadda yadda. I can't think on my feet fast enough, because I get so frustrated at this crap, so any advice you have would be appreciated.

[lwcon]

1. Read the sermon on the mount

The Repubs wrap themselves in the shroud of Turin but completely debase Christian values. It's the Dems who practice them.

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm

___

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[Radical Activist]

15. Along those lines

there is no record of Jesus talking about abortion or gay marriage, the twin obsessions of the "christian" right.

[SunDrop23]

20. And yet they've succeeded in outlawing neither. (nfm)

[cantstandbush]

23. Just read the Bible. It gives all the rebuttal you need. n/t

[lwcon]

2. Also, ask why...

...the Repubs' policies always favor the rich over the poor, war over peace, rage over forgiveness, intolerance over love? WWJ think about that?

Hasn't your co-worker ever seen that some of the most sanctimonious people (e.g., Jim Bakker) just use religion to get power and hide their personal corruption and sleaziness? Maybe s/he could at least consider the possibility that the Repubs are doing just that.

Claiming personal superiority through one's own "godliness" is a very un-Christian thing to do, and all the Tom DeLays and Bushes are guilty of it.

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[leftofthedial]

3. The New Testament rebuts this bigoted lie.

[Lerkfish]

4. Ask him how a good christian could possibly be a republican, when

republicans approve of torture, preemptive wars of aggression, leaving people in New Orleans to die, support bigotry and intolerance, love war instead of peace, celebrate corrupt officials instead of condemning them, Knowingly lie and knowingly accept lies told them, think its ok to kill Iraqi children if they get in the way, and think its ok for the govt to list peace protestors as terrorists.

Remind them of the beattitudes, you know, the peacemakers shall be called the children of God.

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Simply ask them to quote, chapter and versus, Jesus' condemnation

of either gays or abortion? Then ask them what Jesus had to say about helping the poor, peace, not telling the truth, hypocrisy, and the rich getting into heaven.

[magpie]

6. New Testament James 2:14-16

14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

[bluerum]

7. Christianity is not black and white - good and bad. Christianity

is being respectful, compassionate and understanding towards the needs of fellow human beings and as well as other living beings on the planet.

To diminish your humanity and and christianity because of his narrow minded view is un-christian and bigoted.

Abortion's are done for many reason and women are often in difficult circumstances. Some that I am sure your associate could never even imagine.

As for the gay argument - that does not even deserve a second thought. He clearly has personal fears in relating in a human way to sexuality.

Falling back onto the biblical verse argument, - you know - the bible says "this that and the other thing" is full of holes. My first reaction is: It's a 5000 year old book - we are supposed to run a 21srt century world based on on what it says? Preposterous.

My second reaction is that the bible has been altered, re-written, and changed so much to suit various purposes over the course of history that I would never in a million years use it as a basis for my religious beliefs. It is an anthology of inspirational verse. Not useful for much more than that.

[LouisianaLiberal]

8. This worked for me...

"Repubs have held complete power for how long now? If they really wanted to eliminate abortion wouldn't they have done something by now? I think you're being used."

Worked on two hard-line evangelicals. Both voted for Kerry in 2004.

[kiraboo]

9. Republicans like to hold the old testament up as their rulebook.

But true Christians believe that Jesus came to redeem us. Ask your republican friend where Jesus says anything - and I mean ANYTHING - about killing your enemies, or raising the rich at the expense of the poor; about taking from the weak and voiceless or even about forcing one's values upon another. They won't be able to answer, because the answers aren't there.

[cantstandbush]

24. Then that means that they are NOT Christians but Hebrews.

They like a vengeful god, and laws that are impossible for anyone to keep. That's why Yaweh kept punishing the Hebrews. Most GOP haven't even read the New Testament completly. If they had they would be shocked to find out that paying taxes was a duty that even Christ felt necessary to follow.

[PaDem]

10. I'm an Evangelical Christian and a solid left liberal...........

I feel your frustration. Part of what's most difficult about a situation like yours is that it's hard to know where to begin, and it's even harder to neatly counter that statement in a 30 second soundbite. When you are dealing with Christians who have been indoctrinated with right wing ideology for most of their lives you need more than a few minutes to even plant a seed of open minded consideration.

That said, I think you have to make arguments on their terms. You can't just do the Sermon on the Mount routine, because that doesn't address abortion. I always talk about the incredible hypocrisy involved in the conservative "pro-life" position on abortion. Of course it's really not a pro-life position at all. It's in fact an anti-choice position. A true pro-life party would do everything it could to ensure that unplanned or unwanted children born into this society would have every safety net possible at their disposal to give them the best chance to succeed.

As for the gay issue, I think it's important to again discuss it on their terms. I don't get into debates with regards to whether or not gay sex is a sin. What I do is try to impart the notion that homosexuality as a sin or a vice has been blown waaaayyyy out of proportion by religious leaders. It's mentioned only in a handful of places in the Bible, and in a couple of places man has read homosexuality into the text (Sodom and Gomorrah for instance). Centering our lives around money on the other hand is mentioned a ton, as is loving the weak, oppressed, poor and sick. In short I try to put folks on the defensive, making them defend their priority of impassioned bigotry towards gays over an impassioned defense of the oppressed and marginalized.

If I've made headway at this point, I then delicately try to get folks to see how the Republican Party is stringing them along with these cultural issues.

[AlecBGreen]

11. ill post some scripture tomorrow

just read it out loud and say "now whaddya think?"

bring a camera to capture the look on their face ;)

[Zynx]

12. They like the following:

1. Killing
2. Racism
3. Money

That pretty much shows them to be the antithesis of Jesus' teachings.

[crikkett]

13. 1John 4:7-8

Beloved, let us love one another
For love is of God, and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not, knoweth not God, for God is Love.

It goeth on from there, ;) but it's a good start. What about the GOP is about love?

[Dora]

14. How about a big "fuck off" to your coworker.

Pardon my french.

There is no good reason on gd's green earth for you to have to DEFEND your spiritual beliefs to your coworker.

Threaten your coworker with a religious harassment suit. It's a free country, and you're free to be a Christian and a Democrat.

"Can't."

:eyes:

[lwcon]

19. LOL

That's thinking out of the box!

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Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[banana republican]

16. Don't throw pearls before swine

translation:

If you fight with pigs you only get muddy. don't waste your time.

quote the above passage and walk away....

[Rocknrule]

17. Use these quotes:

"Blessed are the peacemakers"
"Thou shalt not kill"
"Beware of false prophets"
"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"
"Thou shalt not steal"
"Thou shalt not bear false witness"
"Turn the other cheek"
"It's easier for a camel to pass through a needle's eye than for a rich man to enter heaven"
"Thou shalt not covet"
"Thou shalt not use God's name for evil purposes"


And ask them where Jesus ever says "Nuke 'em all," "Kill the fags," "I hate everyone," or "Blessed are the Republicans, and no one else"

[LSK]

18. umm, Hookergate????

[DuaneBidoux]

21. Ask him to take this multiple choice question:

In the Bible Jesus spoke most often about:

a) Tax cuts to spur investment

b) The importance of stoping gay marriage

c) The importance of stoping abortion

d) Showing sympathy for and helping the needy

(clue, he only spoke about one of those things and it happens to be principally a Democratic value).

[area51]

22. GOP != Christian.

"The GOP does not equal Christian."

Ask your co-worker how "Christian" it is to allow people to die due to lack of medical care, since we don't have universal healthcare.

And why does he think that it's okay to bomb Iraqis, but not okay to abort a fetus? :eyes:

[SunDrop23]

26. The co-worker would certainly say something to the effect of....

(with regard to the Iraqis)

"well they are Muslim so they are going to hell anyway."

[Mountainman]

25. Ignore them. It isn't worth debating.