DU Plameologists Alert: Big Expose on the Powerful Man You Never Heard Of.

[KoKo]

(Since Addington supposedly replaced Libby...I'm wondering who spilled the beans about this all powerful man...Cheney's Brain to US New & World Report? It's a very long read but filled with fascinating info)


Cheney's Guy
He's barely known outside Washington's corridors of power, but David Addington is the most powerful man you've never heard of. Here's why:

By Chitra Ragavan

5/29/06

The signing statements are just one tool that Addington and a small cadre of ultraconservative lawyers at the heart of the Bush administration are employing to prosecute the war on terrorism. Little known outside the West Wing and the inner sanctums of the CIA, the Pentagon, and the State Department, Addington is a genial colleague who also possesses an explosive temper that he does not hesitate to direct at those who oppose him. Addington, says an admiring former White House official, is "the most powerful person no one has never heard of."

Name one significant action taken by the Bush White House after 9/11, and chances are better than even that Addington had a role in it. So ubiquitous is he that one Justice Department lawyer calls Addington "Adam Smith's invisible hand" in national security matters. The White House assertion--later proved false--that Saddam Hussein tried to buy nuclear precursors from Niger to advance a banned weapons program? Addington helped vet that. The effort to discredit a former ambassador who publicly dismissed the Niger claim as baseless, by disclosing the name of his wife, a covert CIA officer? Addington was right in the middle of that, too, though he has not been accused of wrongdoing.

-Snip- (This is a 9 Page article... I took liberty of snipping the beginning and end)

As legal scholars continue to examine the government's 9/11 policies, David Addington's singular presence looms larger than ever. What is unclear, at this juncture anyway, is how history will regard him: as a legal path setter who devised innovative means to help a president defeat an unconventional enemy or as a dangerous advocate who, in pushing the envelope legally to help prosecute the war on terrorism, set U.S. foreign policy, and America's image in the world, back by decades. Even his toughest critics in the administration say Addington believes utterly that he is acting in good faith. "He thinks he's on the side of the angels," says a former Justice Department official. "And that's what makes it so scary."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060529/29addington_7.htm

[seemslikeadream]

1. ADDINGTON'S ROLE IN CHENEY'S OFFICE DRAWS FRESH ATTENTION

That's David (Geneva Convention is "Quaint") Addington


http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1030nj1.htm

By Murray Waas and Paul Singer

10-30-05

David Addington, counsel to Vice President Cheney, has been named to succeed Scooter Libby as Cheney's chief of staff. Addington's own role in the Plame matter is emerging just as the vice president selects him for the top job.

...

Further, Addington played a leading role in 2004 on behalf of the Bush administration when it refused to give the Senate Intelligence Committee documents from Libby's office on the alleged misuse of intelligence information regarding Iraq. Because Addington may be in line to succeed Libby, the Intelligence Committee-White House battle over the documents has sparked new interest on Capitol Hill.

....

Rockefeller's call for an inquiry by the Intelligence Committee captured the attention of many senators Friday, but did not attract wider press attention. It also surprised senators because Rockefeller, who is a political moderate, was often praised by the Republican chairman of the committee, Pat Roberts of Kansas, and other Republicans for serving as vice chairman in a bipartisan matter. Indeed, some other Democratic senators on the committee have privately complained that Rockefeller had not pressed Republicans hard enough on some oversight issues.

....

During confirmation hearings of Alberto Gonzales to be attorney general, it was revealed that Addington helped draft the White House memo that concluded that the Geneva Convention against torture did not apply to prisoners captured in the war on terror. The memo declared that terrorism "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions."

....

helped out that torture guy Gonzales too (who maybe under indictment also)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1262353&mesg_id=1262353



http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article323785.ece

By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
Published: 01 November 2005
The Independent


Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the senior White House official charged over the CIA leak affair, is to appear in court this week, as investigators continue their inquiries into the activities of President George Bush's senior political adviser, Karl Rove.

An official said yesterday that Mr Libby would appear in a federal court in Washington on Thursday morning, where he would be formally charged, or arraigned. He faces five charges ­ two of lying to investigators, two of lying to a grand jury and one of obstructing justice ­ in relation to the leaking of the identity of a covert CIA operative, Valerie Plame.

Mr Libby, 55, has made it clear he will plead not guilty. He was replaced yesterday by David Addington, a longtime aide to Vice-President Dick Cheney and his top legal adviser. Mr Addington was among the authors of a White House memo justifying torture of terrorism suspects.

Over the weekend Mr Libby's lawyers said they would argue that, as a busy White House official, he could not be expected to recollect the full details of every conversation he had with reporters. They will deny that he deliberately intended to lie to either investigators or members of the grand jury about what he had told reporters about Ms Plame.


http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/31/cheney-promotes

Cheney Promotes Individuals Named In Indictment

"Both Addington and Hannah are named in the indictment. Hannah was intimately involved in the strategy of leaking Plame’s identity. From the indictment:

13. Shortly after publication of the article in The New Republic, LIBBY spoke by telephone with his then Principal Deputy and discussed the article. That official asked LIBBY whether information about Wilson’s trip could be shared with the press to rebut the allegations that the Vice President had sent Wilson. LIBBY responded that there would be complications at the CIA in disclosing that information publicly, and that he could not discuss the matter on a non-secure telephone line.

Addington provided legal counsel to Libby in helping to divulge Plame’s identity.

18. Also on or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY met with the Counsel to the Vice President in an anteroom outside the Vice President’s Office. During their brief conversation, LIBBY asked the Counsel to the Vice President, in sum and substance, what paperwork there would be at the CIA if an employee’s spouse undertook an overseas trip.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/3128addington_memo.html
Addington, a "swell " guy...
Cheney's Lawyer Addington
Penned Key Torture Memo
by Jeffrey Steinberg

David Addington, the General Counsel to Vice President Dick Cheney, was the actual author of one of the now-infamous White House "torture memos" that claimed for President Bush the authority to violate the Geneva Conventions on the Treatment of Prisoners of War, in the so-called "war on terrorism." The immediate result of this Hitlerian document was the scenes of inhuman torture at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad, and the as-yet untold tales of similar torture at other secret prison locations in Afghanistan, at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and in other countries around the world.



http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-3158

David S. Addington actively participated in the following events:
January 21, 2002 Torture in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere

White House lawyers visit Guantanamo Bay. On the flight back, Alberto Gonzales agrees with David Addington that all Guantanamo detainees should be designated eligible for trial by military commission under the president's November 13 Military Order (see January 20, 2002).
People and organizations involved: Alberto R. Gonzales, David S. Addington

'Passive' participant in the following events:
Torture, rendition, and other abuses against captives in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere - November 13, 2001 - President Bush issues a 3- ...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5223042
Page 4 - ("Under Secretary of State")International Security Affairs John Bolton or Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Marc Grossman?

Page 4 - ("A senior officer of the CIA") ?

Page 5 ("An aide to the VP") John Hannah - Senior Nation Security Aide or David Wurmser - Middle East Advisor?

Page 5 (CIA briefer") ?

Page 6 ("Libby's then Pincipal Deputy") John Hannah

Page 7 ("WH Press Secretary") Ari Fleicher?

Page 7 ("Counsel to the VP') David Addington?

Page 7 ("Ass't to the VP for Public Affairs") Catherine Martin (she was his press secretary)?

Page 7 ("MSNBC Reporter") Chris Matthews

Page 8 ("Official A") Karl Rove?

Page 8 (Other Officials) Plane trip from Norfolk

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/28/addington-involved-in-leak-scandal/

Scooter Libby’s replacement as chief of staff to the Vice President is reportedly a man named David Addington. He was formerly Cheney’s counsel, a position he held since 2001. According to the indictment, it appears that Addington was involved in the leak:

18. Also on or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY met with the Counsel to the Vice President in an anteroom outside the Vice President’s Office. During their brief conversation, LIBBY asked the Counsel to the Vice President, in sum and substance, what paperwork there would be at the CIA if an employee’s spouse undertook an overseas trip.

Was Addington aware that he was facilitating alleged criminal conduct?

Unitary Executive theory

http://alternet.org/blogs/themix/#27514

Scooter Libby's insta-replacement, David Addington, believes in the Unitary Executive theory. If you guessed that this meant the power of one CEO who decides liberty and justice for all, you wouldn't be far off. It's not too far from King of Everything, really.

Here's a description of how it works by a legal theorist from Michigan Law School:

Several scholars have recently rearticulated the "unitary executive theory" of Article II , arguing that Article II vests the power to execute federal law solely in the President of the United States. Unitarians do not maintain that the President must personally execute all laws; Congress may establish an administrative bureaucracy and identify particular officials to assist the President in carrying out legislatively prescribed tasks. But, unitarians argue, such officials must always remain subject to the President's direction.

According to Raw Story, Bush has made at least 95 decisions since 2001 using this unitary logic, including many of his ill-fated choices relating to torture and the Geneva Conventions. And who was the author of the infamous "torture memo?"

David Addington.

http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=David_S._Addington

Primary Role in Bush Admin's POW Policies

....

Former attorney general William P. Barr suggested to Gonzales's staff early on that those captured on the battlefield go before military tribunals instead of civil courts. But Ashcroft and Michael Chertoff, his deputy for the criminal division, both adamantly opposed the plan, along with military lawyers at the Pentagon. The result was that the process moved slowly."

"Addington was the first to suggest that the issue be taken away from the Prosper group and that a presidential order be drafted authorizing the tribunals that he, Gonzales and Timothy E. Flanigan, then a principal deputy to Gonzales, supported. It was intended for circulation among a much smaller group of like-minded officials. Berenson, Flanigan and Addington helped write the draft, and on Nov. 6, 2001, Gonzales's office secured an opinion from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel that the contemplated military tribunals would be legal."


"The task of summarizing the competing points of view in a draft letter to the president was seized initially by Addington. A memo he wrote and signed with Gonzales's name -- and knowledge -- was circulated to various departments, several sources said. A version of this draft, dated Jan. 25, 2002, was subsequently leaked. It included the eye-catching assertion that a 'new paradigm' of a war on terrorism 'renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners." More...

http://whateveralready.blogspot.com/2005/10/i-have-brand-new-national-journal.html

by Murray Wass
Thursday, October 27, 2005

....

Cheney has tried to increase executive power with a series of bold actions -- some so audacious that even conservatives on the Supreme Court sympathetic to Cheney's view have rejected them as overreaching. The vice president's point man in this is longtime aide David Addington, who serves as Cheney's top lawyer.

Where there has been controversy over the past four years, there has often been Addington. He was a principal author of the White House memo justifying torture of terrorism suspects. He was a prime advocate of arguments supporting the holding of terrorism suspects without access to courts.

Addington also led the fight with Congress and environmentalists over access to information about corporations that advised the White House on energy policy. He was instrumental in the series of fights with the Sept. 11 commission and its requests for information...

....

Even in a White House known for its dedication to conservative philosophy, Addington is known as an ideologue, an adherent of an obscure philosophy called the unitary executive theory that favors an extraordinarily powerful president.

....

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/10/libby_resigns_b.php

Libby Resigns, But Was His Replacement Involved in the Leak?

Posted by Joe Rospars on October 28, 2005 at 04:34 PM


The crack team over at Think Progress has the scoop on Libby's replacement in the White House:

Scooter Libby’s replacement as chief of staff to the Vice President is reportedly a man named David Addington. He was formerly Cheney’s counsel, a position he held since 2001. According to the indictment, it appears that Addington was involved in the leak:

18. Also on or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY met with the Counsel to the Vice President in an anteroom outside the Vice President’s Office. During their brief conversation, LIBBY asked the Counsel to the Vice President, in sum and substance, what paperwork there would be at the CIA if an employee’s spouse undertook an overseas trip.

Was Addington aware that he was facilitating alleged criminal conduct?

You'll remember that Republican leader Tom DeLay handed his leadership post to another ethically-challenged Republican, Roy Blunt.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22665-2004Oct10.html

In Cheney's Shadow, Counsel Pushes the Conservative Cause
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, October 11, 2004; Page A21

The vice president's point man in this is longtime aide David Addington, who serves as Cheney's top lawyer....

Where there has been controversy over the past four years, there has often been Addington. He was a principal author of the White House memo justifying torture of terrorism suspects. He was a prime advocate of arguments supporting the holding of terrorism suspects without access to courts.

Addington also led the fight with Congress and environmentalists over access to information about corporations that advised the White House on energy policy. He was instrumental in the series of fights with the Sept. 11 commission and its requests for information. And he was a main backer of the nomination of Pentagon lawyer William J. Haynes II for a seat on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit. Haynes's confirmation has been a source of huge friction on Capitol Hill.

Colleagues say Addington stands out for his devotion to secrecy in an administration noted for its confidentiality. He declined to be interviewed or photographed for this article, and he did not respond to a list of specific points made in the article.

[Supersedeas]

3. I would have guessed the torture memo and the Gitmo tribunal delays

Thanks for the linkie

[KoKo]

4. Thanks for those "refresher" links. It seems US New & WP is taking this

mainstream. It's nine pages online! I don't know if it's in their print edition but I hope so.

It's a really long read but for most folks who don't read oline and haven't followed Waas and others alarms about Addington the article connects lots of dots for the average person. It made me wonder if Libby is exposing him in more detail since the guy took his job and the article never mentions Libby at all. Lots of adoring quotes from Mary Matalin supporting Addington and Cheney, though, which can be ignored...in the read.

Article also says Addington cut the State Department out consistently. So it could be Colin Powell that gave some info, too. But most of the article is so "inside" that I thought it might have come from Libby. :shrug:

[Stinky The Clown]

12. "I don't know if it's in their print edition"

I've noticed a boatload of stories that get carried only in the online editions of various and sundry rags. I see it as a convenient way to cover themselves and allow them to claim "We covered it. See? Right here? <link>"

But in this day and age, online newz is hardly mainstream. Johnnie Q never sees it and goes along blithely voting for the next Idol.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. "He thinks he's on the side of the angels,"

Sounds like another rapture ready Bushbot. This is one scary breed.

Thanks for the link. Will read later.

[Minnesota Libra]

5. I will certainly keep an eye/ear open for mention of David Addington......

....from now on. Never heard the name before - maybe this should be sent to LTTE and any people we can think of. Exposure to the light of day is always the best medicine for anyone in the shadows.

[Peace Patriot]

6. Yeah, he helped Bush "defeat an unconventional enemy"...

...the American people!

[Peace Patriot]

7. ...56% of whom opposed the invasion of Iraq, way back in Feb. '03,

AFTER Powell's speech to the UN--and 63% of whom oppose torture "under any circumstances" (May '04).

Diebold and ES&S did the rest.

[phoebe]

8. let's go back even further - can we say Iran-Contra?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/05/AR2006010501902_pf.html

By David Ignatius
Friday, January 6, 2006; A19


snip

Addington, 48, is in many ways Cheney's Cheney. Like his boss, he has exercised immense power without leaving many fingerprints. He operates with a decorous, low-key manner, but colleagues say he can intimidate and sometimes bully opponents. Though working out of the relative obscurity of the vice president's office, he has been able to impose his will on Cabinet secretaries and other senior administration officials. His influence rests on two pillars: his unyielding conviction that the powers of the president cannot be abridged in wartime, and the total support he receives from Cheney.

Addington's relationship with Cheney developed during the 1980s, when the two learned the same hardball lessons about national security. Addington worked as an assistant general counsel at Bill Casey's no-holds-barred CIA from 1981 to '84, where a friend says he loved the culture of "go-go guys with a license to hunt." He got to know Cheney when he moved to Capitol Hill as a staffer for the House intelligence committee and later the Iran-contra committee. "David has seared in his mind the restrictive amendments tying the president's hand in funding the contras," remembers Bruce Fein, a Republican attorney who worked on the Iran-contra committee. Addington moved with Cheney to the Pentagon as his special assistant and later became Defense Department general counsel.

snip

Friends and former colleagues describe Addington as a man who thrives on his invisibility. He lives in a modest house in Northern Virginia, takes the subway to work, and shuns the parties and perks of office. He usually has the same simple meal every day -- a bowl of gazpacho soup. Though born in Washington, he styles himself as a "rugged Montana man" in the image of his boss, and he has a photo in his office of Cheney shooting a gun. (??????)

snip

A special target of Addington's needling during the first term was John B. Bellinger III, at the time the chief legal adviser to national security adviser Condoleezza Rice. Addington would attack any sign of caution or wariness from Bellinger about proposed policies, breaking in to say, "That's too liberal," or "You're giving away executive power," remembers a colleague. Bellinger is now Rice's legal adviser at the State Department.

Addington's most bruising fights have been with colleagues at the Justice Department and the Pentagon who challenged his views on interrogation of enemy combatants. He pushed Justice's Office of Legal Counsel to prepare a 2002 memo authorizing harsh interrogation methods. When that memo was later withdrawn, Addington was furious. Last year, he successfully blocked the appointment of one critic, Patrick Philbin, as deputy solicitor general, even though Attorney General Alberto Gonzales wanted him in that role. Also last year, Addington was so adamant in resisting the efforts of a Pentagon official named Matthew Waxman to limit interrogation that Waxman eventually quit and is now moving to the State Department.


from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Addington

snip

Addington was assistant general counsel for the Central Intelligence Agency from 1981 to 1984. From 1984 to 1987 he was counsel for the House committees on intelligence and international relations. Addington was also a special assistant to President Ronald Reagan for one year in 1987, before becoming Reagan's deputy assistant. He was Republican counsel on the Iran-contra committee in the 1980's. From 1989 to 1992, Addington served as special assistant to the Secretary of Defense, before becoming the Department of Defense's general counsel in 1992.

No wonder Reagan was never charged with Iran-Contra crimes


another article makes reference to Iran Contra

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?060227fa_fact

THE MEMO
How an internal effort to ban the abuse and torture of detainees was thwarted.
by JANE MAYER
Issue of 2006-02-27
Posted 2006-02-20

In confronting Haynes, Mora was engaging not just the Pentagon but also the Vice-President’s office. Haynes is a protégé of Cheney’s influential chief of staff, David Addington. Addington’s relationship with Cheney goes back to the Reagan years, when Cheney, who was then a representative from Wyoming, was the ranking Republican on a House select committee investigating the Iran-Contra scandal. Addington, a congressional aide, helped to write a report for the committee’s Republican minority, arguing that the law banning covert aid to the Contras—the heart of the scandal—was an unconstitutional infringement of Presidential prerogatives. Both men continue to embrace an extraordinarily expansive view of executive power. In 1989, when Cheney was named Secretary of Defense by George H. W. Bush, he hired Addington as a special assistant, and eventually appointed him to be his general counsel. Addington, in turn, hired Haynes as his special assistant and soon promoted him to general counsel of the Army.

[phoebe]

9. another article on Addington

http://www.comcast.net/news/politics/index.jsp?cat=POLITICS&fn=/2005/11/11/262557.html

snip

At Cheney's side since the 1980s, Addington has been a behind-the-scenes player in one after another of the hot-button controversies the Bush administration has faced:

_The CIA leak probe.

_The fight to disclose which corporations advised the White House on energy policy.

_The dispute over the treatment of suspected terrorists.

_The White House disagreements with the Sept. 11 commission and the Senate Intelligence Committee over the release of documents.

snip

Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell, told National Public Radio earlier this month that it's his belief that the administration began to authorize procedures within the armed forces that led to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners.

"This started from the very beginning when David Addington, the vice president's lawyer, was a staunch advocate of allowing the president in his capacity as commander in chief to deviate from the Geneva Conventions," Wilkerson said.

snip

Addington was mentioned in title, not name, in the indictment. It says Libby met with Addington on July 8, 2003, in an anteroom for the vice president's office and asked him "what paperwork there would be a the CIA if an employee's spouse undertook an overseas trip."

The indictment did not say whether Addington actually sought more information on Wilson.

[KoKo]

10. Yep...long history. Makes it even more evident that Bush is just a puppet

when the real power is running the show and made preparations long ago to take over. They just needed Puppet Man to make it look legit. I wonder if the Poppy wasn't just a Puppet for these people, also. He always seemed as stupid and unprepared as his son. He just had a little more "refinement," and maybe was a little observer of history.

[phoebe]

11. Poppy was no puppet - he was Director of CIA - he knew

exactly what he was doing and still has influence today.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. He goes back to Poppy, too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Addington

Background

Addington graduated from Sandia High School in Albuquerque, New Mexico in 1974. He is a graduate of the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University and holds a J.D. from Duke University School of Law.

Addington was assistant general counsel for the Central Intelligence Agency from 1981 to 1984. From 1984 to 1987 he was counsel for the House committees on intelligence and international relations. Addington was also a special assistant to President Ronald Reagan for one year in 1987, before becoming Reagan's deputy assistant. He was Republican counsel on the Iran-contra committee in the 1980's. From 1989 to 1992, Addington served as special assistant to the Secretary of Defense, before becoming the Department of Defense's general counsel in 1992.

From 1993 to 2001, he worked in private practice, for law firms Baker Donelson Bearman Caldwell & Berkowitz and Holland & Knight, and the American Trucking Association.<3> He headed a political action committee, the Alliance for American Leadership, set up in large part to explore a possible presidential candidacy for Mr. Cheney.

[peacetalksforall]

14. Does anyone know how to get a printable version of the U.S. News

article. There is a dropdown from the Home box that covers the text and won't go away, plus the Print icon doesn't turn over on dial-up.

Thanks!

[KoKo]

15. Try this link ....and see if it works better. I'm Dial Up, too.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060529/29addington.htm

When the article came up I had to wait a few seconds for a flashing ad to disappear on each page I viewed. It was annoying but would go away. I tried to post link to a Print Version but unfortunately the site goes directly to my printer without a Print View.

I just went back to the article and the annoying ad wasn't there ...so try the new link.

If it doesn't work let me know.

[peacetalksforall]

16. Thanks for your advice. It didn't work for me. I just sent a message

to them.

This has happened before and I gave up, but this article is really important. I think it is a saver and one to share. There are so many explanations contained in it. Their intentions amaze me. Their arrogance amazes me. And it is another confirmation of my belief that Geroge is just a front man - the glad handing, back slapping, fund raiser who can connect with the non-thinking citizens. However, they have really brainwashed him to think otherwise or he is a better actor than I thought possible.

[KoKo]

17. I just checked both links and can get the article...if you ignore the

"flashing ad" and wait about a minute it disappears and you can read the page...it will show up on every page but disappears again if you wait.

I'm sorry this is happening to you...but I'm Dial-Up and I can still read it but it won't give me a print copy to post.

Have you tried going down and hitting print and printing it out? It's a long enough article you might want to just print it and read it when you have some time.

Let me know if you click the original again and it doesn't work. I hope others haven't had this problem or maybe they just printed it out. :shrug:

[peacetalksforall]

18. Nothing worked. I tried to go in a side door by using the minimum

url and searching on Ragavan which did not work, but 'Cheney's Guy' did. The url's for each page were listed, but that didn't work either - there were no alternative url's.

Along the way I found a website for Ragavan. I think I'll wait a few days and go to her website to print it. I read enough by copying and pasting, but it excludes what is under the dropdown. I am getting the gist of it all, but as I said - this is a winner of an article and I want to share it.

I always make sure the source and date appears.

I'm going to have DSL set up soon. This is probably a dial-up problem and they didn't consider it. Sometimes I can't believe the lack of foresight in web design that doesn't allow easy printing, if it's permissible. No frames, no color, no 50pt fonts and combinations of fonts. Simple is beyond the talents of some.

I think this insight into this fellow and the flavor of what she gave us is going to be beneficial.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help.

[KoKo]

19. You might have AdWare or SpyWare on your computer.

They are both "Free Download Programs" and have kept my old creaking computer with Dial Up free of "bugs" that would intefere with me downloading sites.

[KoKo]

20. Kick ....Good info and links posted here...plus the original article...