Is Barbara Boxer a clueless idiot? You decide.

[saltpoint]

A post over at FireDogLake:

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/06/10/clueless/#comments

--suggests that Senator Boxer is "clueless," with references to her throughout the thread as "an idiot," and worse. In one poster's passage reference is made to her being in league with those who would wantonly gratify base desires of George Bush's private parts.

This in response to Sen. Boxer's Las Vegas appearance at yKos, and her support of Sen. Lieberman, a colleague in the senate with whom she must work to accomplish goals. Boxer spoke for Lieberman as a matter of Senate campaign protocol and is being trashed for it by several posters.

A few posters speak in her defense. Some of the anti-Boxer language is worse than the euphemistic phrase I used just above. Put on some asbestos earmuffs and wear hip boots and go have a look.

I'm not registered there but am considering contacting the admins at FireDogLake. For my money, this is the a shameful assault on the character of one of the best U.S. Senators we've got. I'm a strong Boxer fan, and former volunteer, and I didn't care much at all for the slam job on her character.

[BlueManDude]

1. I like Boxer

no surprise she's supporting Liebs.

[saltpoint]

19. I've seen Boxer in an interview alongside retired Republican contrarian,

Alan Simpson.

Alan Simpson is a horse's ass, in my opinion, but I watched Boxer talking with, and to, him and saw how skillful she is at negotiating a point, rounding the edges, not putting him on the defensive, and tolerating his oratorical stunts.

She charmed the pants off of him and he didn't even know it.

[bleever]

31. That, my friend,

is the story, right there.

She's a member of the United States Senate.

Not only does she behave accordingly; she does so effectively.

:thumbsup:

[saltpoint]

32. bleever! Thank you for that post. That last sentence you have there

in support of Senator Boxer is the summary I needed for my OP.

Well, you've provided it right there.

Bull's eye & Bravo.

[Downtown Hound]

2. I'm a Californian and a Boxer fan

although I have nothing good to say about old Joe Lieberman, her support of him in no way diminishes the courageous stands she has taken in the past on numerous issues. You won't find a more anti-Bush Senator in the Capitol today than her.

[saltpoint]

5. I'm a non-Connecticut Dem-for-Lamont, and agree with you on both

Lieberman and on Boxer.

I found the tone of the anti-Boxer remarks on that site very off-putting. Some of the individual posters sounded like they needed either anger management or hog tranquilizer.

Maybe both.

[Mass]

3. Let see - If I understand correctly, Boxer answered to a representative

of the Corporate Media and somebody who is far from being a friend from liberals and democrats that he was exaggerating the rift among Democrats.

As an assistant whip, she would have been wrong to say otherwise! And I dont think ANY sitting democratic senator is going to speak against Lieberman (except to say they disagree on some issues).

Nothing wrong with her. She is smart and, contrarely to others, not filling the newspapers with comments on how the Dems are divided. Kudos to her.

[saltpoint]

7. O Mass! I loved your answer. Thank you. I wish you had been over

at that other site to speak in defense of Sen. Boxer.

I remember when we sent her flowers for her stand about the Blackwell-ruined election in Ohio.

[ccpup]

4. I often don't like

what other people have to say about Senators or Cogresspeople I like, but I'll be damned if I'm going to try and take their right to say it away! To try and do so would make me no better than a knuckle-dragging, open-mouthed breathing, NeoCon Fundie! Free Speech doesn't mean everyone is in agreement.

[saltpoint]

9. Point taken, but have you read some of those posts? Have a look at

them and tell me if that's how YOU solve problems as a grown-up.

It seems to me that many judges rightly delineate between First Amendment privileges and outright slander or libel.

Some of those posts are well across that line, IMO.

[ccpup]

55. This isn't about

what I would or wouldn't do "as a grown up". This is about someone attempting to decide what others should or should not write. I often vociferously disagree with things written on DU. I get angry, I lose my patience and I think the person who wrote it is an idiot. But I don't feel like I'm the one to be The Decider on what's "appropriate" to write and what isn't. Now, you may disagree with me and that's fine. We can agree to disagree. But that's the beauty of our Country as it is now: we have the right to disagree. :-)

[robinlynne]

6. I love Barbara Boxer.

[saltpoint]

10. Me, too, robinlynne. I think she's the cat's pajamas, and always have.

[cboy4]

8. I love Barbara Boxer also n/t

[saltpoint]

12. hey there, cboy4. Good to bump into you tonight on DU. I'm with you

all the way on Senator Boxer.

In my book, she's a diamond.

[cboy4]

36. You're in trouble mister. I just read your plot to kidnap Barbara ;)

:grr:

LOL! Nice to hear from you :hi:

[saltpoint]

37. LOL! Yep. I'm in a jealous voter's rage that Californians have Barbara

representing them and I don't. I wail. I weep. I pout. I kick animals. Etc.
_____
Seriously, I'm happy for you Californians. You are the beneficiaries of Sen. Boxer's efforts, and they've been consistent and dutiful for a long time. She is climbing the hierarchy ladder in the U.S. Senate. This is her third term already, isn't it? If we can capture the Senate in 06 or 08, she is in line for some major influence.

And that would be good for everybody.

[Omaha Steve]

11. I'd vote Boxer for President anytime

I think she is doing great things for the party too.

[saltpoint]

14. I agree with every syllable you typed, Omaha Steve. She is many good

things, but not least, she is worth it. She's worth the loyalty and the toil and the dedication.

[AtomicKitten]

13. As a Californian, I'll take Boxer over Feinstein any day.

[saltpoint]

16. I continue to brood in my basement, AtomicKitten, over a detailed plot

to go out to California and steal your U.S. Senator from you! A lot of us want her to be OUR senator.

So just you better keep your guard up out there, because we want Barbara Boxer for OUR states!

[AtomicKitten]

21. Yeah, well, I keep her in MY basement. n/t

:)

[saltpoint]

22. Damn. That's going to make it even harder to pull off.

Seriously, AtomicKitten, a lot of Democrats love Barbara Boxer, and feel you're lucky to have her out there. I know you appreciate her, and don't blame you one bit.

[AtomicKitten]

25. I'm lucky for a lot of reasons.

I live in a blue state in the bluest city - San Francisco - having moved from Santa Cruz, another wonderful blue city here in California. I appreciate it every single day.

I really feel for Dems trying to survive in red states, particularly in the south where some of my best buddies live, the ones that give me the most encouragement and hope just by their never-give-up, kick ass and take names attitude. They remind me that some of the squabbles here at DU seem so absurd in the bigger of scheme of things. They participate in genuine activism in places where that's a dirty word.

Thanks for not holding my good fortune against me! Nothing cooler than waving to Babs riding in an open car in the SF Chinese New Year parade.

[saltpoint]

26. I love the detail there of Senator Boxer riding in the open car in the

Chinese New Year parade.

What a great image that is.

Well, if you've lived in Santa Cruz and San Francisco, you have appreciated a lot of progressive neighbors and pals. Hat's off to ya for that, and many more years of the same.

We'll be looking toward the Bay Area on Nov. 7 this year for a huge anti-Arnold turnout. You folks went 80-20 against Schwartzenegger versus Davis while the rest of California tilted the outcome to Arnold.

Davis was nothing great but surely preferable to Schwartzenegger.

So do what you can out there, and we'll be rooting for you.

[still_one]

15. I like Boxer, but if she is throwing her support behind Liberman

for the primaries, she is clueless. I could understand her throwing her support for Liberman if he wins the primaries, but this is insane, especially since Liberman has all ready said HE WOULD NOT RULE OUT A RUN AS AN INDEPENDENT if he LOST THE PRIMARY

[saltpoint]

17. Senators must work together as a team -- in small groups, as duos,

etc. -- in order to advance initiatives for the party.

Sometimes they even "cross the aisle" to work with Republicans. It's not only NOT unusual, it is very USUAL, and absolutely necessary that they do this.

They can't be slamming each other in public over ideology. Protocol demands that they put the greater goal above personal viewpoint. Nothing would get done if they abandoned this.

Frist abandoned it to campaign against Daschle. It's bad politics.

[still_one]

28. she does NOT have to support anyone until after the primary

This has nothing to do with slamming anyone.

That logic doesn't cut it, especially in light of the fact that Liberman said HE WOULD go independent if NOT nominated

You tell me what is loyal or not

I voted for Wesley in the primaries, but will vote for Angelenies in the general election because he won the primary

[saltpoint]

30. But you aren't a sitting U.S. Senator, are you? Both Joe and Barbara

are.

My point on Senate protocol is not mine, pulled from thin air. It's been around for decades.

Boxer was on solid ground the way she responded.

[robinlynne]

18. I read the blog over there, and I think boxer said it best: Why do you

keep asking about Lieberman?

[saltpoint]

20. Yes. And for that she is being thrown to the lions. I was appalled also

at the sexist tone of the criticism. I had taken FireDogLake to be a pro-feminist site, but some of the people posting in support of Jane's OP are just off the chart.

Very off-putting.

[ruggerson]

23. O.C. This is one woman's viewpoint

the sad part is that she could have expressed her disagreement with Boxer over this without calling her names.

I think she kind of destroyed her own credibility by doing so, so I'd hate to see ya get bent out of shape over it. I share your frustration. Boxer is a fine woman and does not need to be subjected to personal attacks by people on OUR side of the fence, for pete's sake!

[saltpoint]

24. Hi, ruggerson. Yep -- it was the name-calling I can't abide. I wonder

if she couldn't have posed the issue as a communications break-down (if that's what she perceived) as opposed to setting the stage for a slamfest.

Some of the anti-Boxer comments in that thread are (to my ear, anyway) blatantly sexist. Also, I wonder if those "progressives" would prefer to remove Boxer from office and have in that senate seat instead one of the rightwing Republicans in the California delegation. I'm sure the GOP would love to have Barbara Boxer out of the way.

But I would not. I'd like to see her enjoy an extremely long life in the Senate, or in a higher role if she so chooses.

Not bent out of shape, but ethically alarmed at "progressives" turning on a truly accomplished professional progressive woman.

[chaumont58]

27. I read the Boxer piece yesterday

and don't consider it a big deal. Bloggers and people who read blogs on a daily basis develop a somewhat exaggerated importance of the blogger's views. Boxer, as a United States Senator, does not read blogs. She may not even have anyone on her staff that does. I would bet a lot of beltway politicians truly are clueless regarding a lot of the dislike for Lieberman that the great unwashed has for him. I bet Boxer was invited to the Yearly Kos, and accepted because of a recommendation of her staff. She probably doesn't know Kos from Buster Keaton.
It was a meeting of two insular worlds, the blogger's world and a US Senator's world.

[saltpoint]

29. Very insightful. I hadn't come at it from that angle.

Well. Whatever it was, I think you might be right about the no-big-deal part -- at least as far as it would mean damage to Sen. Boxer.

It's just the tone of the response that seems so disproportionate to her "offense."

With Jeff Sessions and Tom Coburn in the U.S. Senate, I wonder if the FDL OP might have prioritized her emergencies better.

[bleever]

33. Additionally, I want to recommend this thread,

because Jane Hamsher and the other folks at firedoglake deservedly get much attention and are given much credence, and I want to be out front in saying that I disagree, and respectfully.

[saltpoint]

34. Thank you, and another good point on firedoglake. Those folks

know how to run a website but the occasional misstep, disagreed with respectfully as you have done here, is healthy and makes for a more vibrant public discourse.

bleever, your stars are lined up just right this late spring evening.

[Ghost in the Machine]

35. I saw and listened to Senator Boxer for the first time the other day

while I was watching the yearly kos. I was VERY impressed with her, as I was with Russ Feingold when he walked out on Arlen Specter. We need strong leaders like this in these trying times.

[saltpoint]

38. Ghost in the Machine, a warm welcome to you to DU. You've come to

a pretty darned good place.

Yes. She and Feingold are both impressive. Very good energy to them both. You mention Feingold's walking out on Specter. That was great stuff. Specter is someone who deserves, richly, to be walked out on, too.

From your profile, I'm guessing that you know a thing or two about bass fishing. I love using 6-lb test line with a swivel and then a Fred Arbogast yellow-speckled Hula-Popper, early morning lake, not a ripple on the surface of the water.

It's my favorite lure. Barbara Boxer is right up there as one of my favorite senators.

Welcome to DU.

[Ghost in the Machine]

43. Thank you for the hearty welcome!

I'm watching for more to impress me in the future.

Yes, I enjoy some bass fishing, striper fishing and crappie fishing. I use ultra-light tackle for crappie and bass. I personally always practice catch and release unless there is just no way to save the fish. The bait and tackle shop isn't mine. I just built the website for them. They are right down the street from me and that is where I buy my supplies and bait when I go fishing. I manage the site myself as Charlie doesn't have a clue as to how to even turn on a computer. LOL! I've got to do some updating sometime this week so check it out again towards the end of the week.

[saltpoint]

46. Yep. Catch-and-release is the way to do it. What a nice thing for

you to do for those folks with the website. I'll try to have a look at it in a week or so.

[madfloridian]

39. Hamsher is wrong on this.

I don't especially like Boxer's affection for Lieberman, but I don't see how she could very well speak against him.

She usually goes along hand in hand with the recommendations made by Rahm and Schumer on who to support. She has supported two candidates in the primaries here in Florida on Rahm's word.

I don't like it but I see where she must do it. You don't cross committee leaders on candidates to support.

[saltpoint]

40. All true. Your observations address the protocol of the chamber Boxer

is a part of and which she should not violate.

While at the same time, you allow air holes for anyone to prefer Lamont to Holy Joe.

Hey, madfloridian: I want you on the blue team forever. Really fine post.

Also: are you in the flood zone for Tropical Storm Alberto?

[madfloridian]

41. Not the flood zone, but the rainy windy zone.

We are inland, not in a low-lying. But a lot of beautiful oaks survived the 3 hurricanes that came our way in 04....hope they survive this season.

This thing has both hubby and me in a lousy mood, sort of depressing to see it start again. We have had some heavy gusts.

[saltpoint]

42. Well, the oaks are survivor-trees. I love 'em. They're tough customers.

I hope you two are safe and sound & out of harm's way.

Maybe put on some good music and pour some lemonade. I'll send good vibes down there to speed Alberto on his way.

[madfloridian]

44. I think some bloggers get too much ego when they get attention.

That is human nature. I was very very impressed with the Fire Dog Lake bloggers on the Plame panel...they are so articulate and brilliant.

But they are only bloggers after all, and they get just like all of us...rather full of their own personalities.

[saltpoint]

47. True. My long-time partisanship toward Barbara Boxer is a factor

in the degree of offense I felt at seeing her trashed on another website, I admit. But the language used by some of the posters just seemed to come from out of nowhere.

If Barbara Boxer is not sufficiently progressive for someone, I think that someone is going to be terribly furious at the world. There are at least 90 senators to her right on the political spectrum, maybe 95.

[JI7]

45. Boxer is great

those who bash her over this and other things and make her out to be something she is not are assholes.

[saltpoint]

48. Hi, J17. Yep. I was thinking a good punishment for the Boxer bashers

would be to force them to relocate to a state where they'd be represented in the Senate by someone like Jeff Sessions or Orrin Hatch or John Cornyn.

After a couple of years of that kind of representation, we'll check back and see how they feel about Senator Boxer.

[Rene]

49. I'd love to see a Clark/Boxer or Boxer/Clark ticket for the Dems in '08

[saltpoint]

51. I'm a little late, but welcome to DU, Rene. I'm not sure how we get

Barbara Boxer on the national ticket without scaring the hell out of some people, but the tickets you list there would likely generate tremendous enthusiasm among activists.

Over the last week Wes Clark wowed a lot of audiences and despite the character slam by Jane Hamsher on firedoglake, I think Senator Boxer's standing remains high.

She's a terrific senator in my book.

[sendero]

50. I can't stand Holy Joe..

... but I'm not going to throw everyone who disagrees with me on this into the dustbin.

[saltpoint]

52. Hi, sendero. I think you've got a lot of company on the subject of

Lieberman. I posted on another thread that I'd love to eavesdrop on a Lieberman re-election strategy committee to see if his political advisors are urging him to hold his ground within the party or run as an independent. They have to gather signatures , like... starting right now if they sense Lamont's numbers rising and if they see it as the only way to compete.

It's going to get REAL interesting in Connecticut. I'm kinda happily jealous of Connecticut Dems -- they've got our attention for sure this summer for that August primary.

Yep. Boxer was observing a Senate protocol wherein one does not trash the people one works with. My private guess is that she could shmooze with Joe all day but prefer Lamont in that Senate seat to help her with bolder initiatives.

Thanks for your post.

[gasperc]

53. Look, if you we're a Senator do want another member backing your primary

We can't beat up on our sitting Senators for not backing Lamont, Lieberman as much of a jerk that he's been for backing Bush hasn't done anything illegal. Now if he goes independent, then I hope that some DEMS will stand up say, hey we left this as a local decision, CT voters spoke and picked a new nominee now step aside. Because, frankly, as a fellow DEM at that point I see now reason to trust that Lieberman will vote for or with the DEM caucus and may not even support a DEM majority leader.

[saltpoint]

54. I think Lieberman's best political hope is to concede the primary to

Ned Lamont.

I'm sure Joe wouldn't care to hear me say so, but that's how I feel. My objection to Lieberman goes back to his win over Lowell Weicker, so I'm not just piling on the latest bandwagon. There've only been about 5 or 6 Republicans in HISTORY that were any good, and Lowell Weicker was one of them.

I think Lamont is going to win the primary in August, and if Lieberman runs as an independent, I still think Lamont will have the support and momentum to win in November. Lamont is riding a national vibe. I think he's the winning horse.

Another scenario that could emerge is that Lieberman wins the primary, but by only a very narrow margin.

Then, Lamont could run as an independent and I think that would sweep him into that Senate seat.

Boxer's a cool-browed poker player from way back, and I think she handled herself just fine out in Las Vegas.