Allen must be really scared

[win_in_06]

I think a run for president might be out of the question for him now, but I'm surprised he has had to pull this stunt in order to try and beat Webb:

" Most Virginians and Americans would find passages such as those below shocking, especially coming from the pen of someone who seeks the privilege of serving in the United States Senate, one of the highest offices in the land:

– Lost Soldiers: “A shirtless man walked toward them along a mud pathway. His muscles were young and hard, but his face was devastated with wrinkles. His eyes were so red that they appeared to be burned by fire. A naked boy ran happily toward him from a little plot of dirt. The man grabbed his young son in his arms, turned him upside down, and put the boy’s penis in his mouth.”


Things are getting VERY ugly in VA.






http://drudgereport.com/flashaw.htm

[MadMaddie]

1. What the F*&%$ is this?

Are you kidding me?.....Webb should have known that everything he has done would be put under a microscope.....sigh...

[LA lady]

2. I think you're right

Stick a fork in Webb, he's done.

[fooj]

4. It's from DRUDGE...

Keep that in mind.

[win_in_06]

5. Of course, but these are quotes from books that Webb himself wrote

I'm sure we'll hear from him directly soon on this matter.

[LA lady]

7. No

It's a press release and on MANY other sites. My family lived in Chesapeake and Richmond, I can already imagine the reactions.

[fooj]

8. Hopefully some good news...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2908056

[enough already]

9. The real danger now is that this sticks to other Dems

Anyone even seen in the same room as Webb in the last 6 months is going to be tarred and feathered.

[win_in_06]

13. These excerpts will certainly be hard to explain away.

I can't see any heavy-hitters, Dean or otherwise, trying to defend these statements. This could cancel out the Foley factor.

[AlCzervik]

17. thats bullshit.

[win_in_06]

22. We'll soon find out, won't we?

[AlCzervik]

24. i guess we will and i give people a little bit more credit.

[Kingofalldems]

41. Thanks for your concern

I think you are wrong though. Cheers.

[enough already]

6. Webb is done like dinner

This blows. We had that racist pig by the nuts.

[Windy]

11. I agree...its over for Webb

the press will have a field day with this

[Ethelk2044]

46. Webb's Campaign

It's not over for Webb.  Only fools will vote for Allen. 
Those who are more concerned about,  taxes, education, social
security will vote for Webb.  The republicans have tried to
take the dems for stupid for so long.  I feel that they are
smarter than that.  We just have to show them that people from
Virginia is smarter than what they think they are, by getting
out the vote.

[INdemo]

20. Relax and quit buying into the Republican propaganda

and dont believe every poll that is published or broadcast..these polls use such a small number of respondents the accuracy is very questionable....

[Hoosier Dem]

3. When did Mark Foley's memoirs come out???

[Infinite Hope]

10. That's disgusting!...

Why did he even write something like that??? Can anyone give it context? That is twisted writing.

[NYCGirl]

19. It's a book about VietNam.

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Soldiers-James-Webb/dp/0440240913/sr=8-7/qid=1161910696/ref=pd_bbs_7/104-5429749-9754331?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Mojorabbit]

12. Dammit! eom

[AlCzervik]

14. can some of you wait to hear from Webb before writing him off?

Is that possible? Are you willing to hear what he has to say, are you that willing to trust Drudge?

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

15. They are quotes from Webb's published novels.

Not much wiggle room this time. Damn.

[AlCzervik]

16. so i'll just put you in the "No" column.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

23. You asked if we should trust Drudge. I answered.

I'm sorry, I don't like it either, but we look like fools when we argue whether water is wet or not. Webb wrote the stuff. Small, sex-obsessed minds are now taking it out of context, and it has a life of its own. My guess is that Webb will say very, very little about this, as this is one of those things where he can dig a deeper hole very easily if he's not careful.

[AlCzervik]

25. it's a novel and not his emails.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

27. This was released because they know...

...that many don't draw a distinction between emails and fiction.

It's a cynical, nasty hit. That's all. It's typical Repub tactics.

[WestSeattle2]

45. Apparently another Republican double standard.........

http://www.amazon.com/Sisters-Lynne-Cheney/dp/0451112040

[bluedogyellowdog]

18. Why is this even an issue?

This is a quote from a *fiction* novel about Vietnam for crying out loud. This kind of material is in many fictional war novels, perhaps most such novels written in the past 3 decades.

Non-issue. This won't hurt Webb a bit. What it means is Allen is getting desparate.

[win_in_06]

21. In a close race in a red state it could make all of the difference in the world

[LostinVA]

44. VA is not a red state

Parts of it are, parts are very blue, and parts of it are very purple.

And the oh-so-obvious posts on this thread are both laughable and annoying.

[enough already]

28. It's a red state. There is no doubt this will swing some of the undecideds to Macaca boy

You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

[LostinVA]

47. *yawn* Go play somewhere else

[LostinVA]

42. Bingo

[Beetwasher]

26. To All The Concern Trolls: *Yawn*

Wake me when this is beyond Drudge and there's a media frenzy. Otherwise, FOAD. Thanks!

Oh, and BTW, here's the full context, it's not sexual you idiots:

[win_in_06]

29. I don't know how you could possibly say it is non-sexual. Even if you

were correct it will clearly be construed as such, and beyond that, smacking of pedophilia.

[Beetwasher]

35. *yawn*

Obviously you failed reading comprehension 101.

[win_in_06]

39. obviously you failed reading politics 101

[Beetwasher]

43. Wake Me

When this is a story, Mr. "concerned", and not some idiotic post for suckers on Drudge.

[win_in_06]

48. Just continue in your slumber.

[Beetwasher]

49. And You Continue W/ Your "Concern"

It's noted, Chester. Now run away and let the adults discuss real issues.

[win_in_06]

52. Rather than take your frustrations out on me, go get out the vote

[Beetwasher]

53. LOL! Frustrations? Yeah, Ok Nervous Nelly!

When you finish shaking in your boots, shitting your pants and wringing your hands, you do the same, 'kay?

:rofl:

[Infinite Hope]

58. That doesn't show it ISN"T sexual....

It only makes it look worse because it appears like something irrelevant from the plot...something that could just as well been left out.

Tell me, is that a Vietnamese cultural greeting for a father and son? I doubt it...

[Beetwasher]

62. You Know, You're Right, It Also Doesn't Show It ISN'T MURDEROUSLY ALIEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Therefore, maybe Webb is a psychotic, serial killing alien...Hmm, you may have a point!

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Clarkie1]

30. This will backfire on Allen. He is underestimating the intelligence of Virginia voters.

If Allen has nothing better than to attack Webb for passages from a book, that's very weak and voters will see that. I doubt Allen is capable of writing well enough to get anything published.

Edit:

Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
Webb's cultural and political portrayal of Vietnam 25 years after the war's end is delivered with such bold strokes and magical detail that it really doesn't matter that the plot itself is relegated to the backseat. This is a highly personal and empathetic look at today's Vietnam, a land of misery and inequity, yet one still vibrantly alive. The story follows the experiences of Brandon Condley, an ex-Marine whose job it is to find missing American soldiers, dead or alive. Condley is trying to track down Theodore Deville, an army grunt who not only deserted his unit in 1969 and killed a fellow serviceman, but then joined the ranks of the enemy. Condley is convinced Deville is still alive, operating somewhere in southeast Asia's underground economy. Webb introduces a rich cast of supporting characters as Condley pursues his quarry across Vietnam, Australia, the former Soviet Union and Thailand. Among the most delicately etched is Dzung, a former South Vietnamese officer now relegated, like thousands of others on the losing side, to a menial station in life, one that he and his family have no hope of escaping. Such characters, as well as the highly textured mood and atmosphere that Webb creates, tend to further eclipse the main narrative and shift the focus to the moral consequences and social fallout of the war. This detailed, lovingly drawn portrait of Vietnam reveals a sad, tortured country that has never recovered from the horrifying events of a quarter-century ago. Major print and radio advertising. (Sept. 4)Forecast: Webb (Fields of Fire) is no stranger to the bestseller lists; endorsements from heavy hitters like Sen. John McCain will help put him there once again.


From Library Journal
Some of the memories were horrible. A few of them were good. But all of them had meaning. Thus begins a gripping tale of mystery and intrigue set in present-day Vietnam. The center of this fine novel is the search for two army deserters who led U.S. troops into ambush and then hid in North Vietnam after the hostilities ceased. Like the best of such tales, however, the novel offers more than the resolution of a mystery: it also tells a poignant story of a love that might have been and of friendship across partisan lines and is rich with the sounds and smells of its foreign setting. Former Secretary of the Navy and Assistant Secretary of Defense Webb (also the author of the best-selling Fields of Fire and other novels) has used his familiarity with the Far East to evoke the tangled net of loyalties and enmities bequeathed to a troubled country by a savage history of conflict. This exceptionally well-written book tells a gripping tale; enthusiastically recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Soldiers-James-H-Webb/dp/B00006JO28/sr=8-1/qid=1161912243/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3208846-9588863?ie=UTF8&s=books

[ACK]

31. Give me a break this has been around since 10 days or so ago

It even made it to the FreeRepublic sites.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1720926/posts

Even a poster there saw it as a load of shit to quote,
"To: ReagansRaiders
I read Webb's 'Fields of Fire' which, while not a great book and entirely too derivative of Norman Mailer's and James Jones' works, was a solid, well-written novel, and certainly one of the better Vietnam war novels. A published, award-winning fiction writer myself--and no fan of Webb's political views--I resent this attack on his character by way of his fictional works. One of my short stories is about an acquitted child molester; another centers around four people who killed for money. Does that mean I sympathize or empathize with or secretly fantasize about their crimes? Emphatically, no.

Webb has plenty of weaknesses insofar as his political and philosophical views are concerned, all legitimate targets in a political campaign. This article was shoddy and below-the-belt.
3 posted on 10/17/2006 9:15:35 AM PDT by Rembrandt_fan "

[Clarkie1]

36. Thanks for the dose of reality! nt

[Orangepeel]

32. um.. is the "shirtless man" the HERO of the book?

If so, then I can see why somebody would be up in arms. But if the character isn't written as a "good guy" then what's the problem?

[Alhena]

33. I'll still take a guy who writes bizarre works of FICTION over

a guy who puts a REAL deer head in an African-American's mailbox.

Whether the good folks in Virginia will agree with me is another matter- I expect some won't and Allen has to be considered the favorite.

[Clarkie1]

34. What is bizzare about Webb's book? Have you read it?

Here are some reviews:

From Publishers Weekly
Webb's cultural and political portrayal of Vietnam 25 years after the war's end is delivered with such bold strokes and magical detail that it really doesn't matter that the plot itself is relegated to the backseat. This is a highly personal and empathetic look at today's Vietnam, a land of misery and inequity, yet one still vibrantly alive. The story follows the experiences of Brandon Condley, an ex-Marine whose job it is to find missing American soldiers, dead or alive. Condley is trying to track down Theodore Deville, an army grunt who not only deserted his unit in 1969 and killed a fellow serviceman, but then joined the ranks of the enemy. Condley is convinced Deville is still alive, operating somewhere in southeast Asia's underground economy. Webb introduces a rich cast of supporting characters as Condley pursues his quarry across Vietnam, Australia, the former Soviet Union and Thailand. Among the most delicately etched is Dzung, a former South Vietnamese officer now relegated, like thousands of others on the losing side, to a menial station in life, one that he and his family have no hope of escaping. Such characters, as well as the highly textured mood and atmosphere that Webb creates, tend to further eclipse the main narrative and shift the focus to the moral consequences and social fallout of the war. This detailed, lovingly drawn portrait of Vietnam reveals a sad, tortured country that has never recovered from the horrifying events of a quarter-century ago. Major print and radio advertising. (Sept. 4)Forecast: Webb (Fields of Fire) is no stranger to the bestseller lists; endorsements from heavy hitters like Sen. John McCain will help put him there once again.

From Library Journal
Some of the memories were horrible. A few of them were good. But all of them had meaning. Thus begins a gripping tale of mystery and intrigue set in present-day Vietnam. The center of this fine novel is the search for two army deserters who led U.S. troops into ambush and then hid in North Vietnam after the hostilities ceased. Like the best of such tales, however, the novel offers more than the resolution of a mystery: it also tells a poignant story of a love that might have been and of friendship across partisan lines and is rich with the sounds and smells of its foreign setting. Former Secretary of the Navy and Assistant Secretary of Defense Webb (also the author of the best-selling Fields of Fire and other novels) has used his familiarity with the Far East to evoke the tangled net of loyalties and enmities bequeathed to a troubled country by a savage history of conflict. This exceptionally well-written book tells a gripping tale; enthusiastically recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Soldiers-James-H-Webb/dp/B00006JO28/sr=8-1/qid=1161912243/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3208846-9588863?ie=UTF8&s=books

[win_in_06]

37. If only it were only one book...

[Clarkie1]

54. Webb is a highly-praised writer! What's wrong with that? This is a non-issue. nt

[Alhena]

50. The bizarre part for me is

I guess the bizarre part for me is why he felt it necessary to include that passage about the man turning the naked boy upside down and putting his penis in his mouth. Now, maybe there's some kind of context for it, but it seems like a strange thing to throw into a book about Vietnam.

I don't think it's particularly relevant to the election, though, and I'd certainly vote for Webb if I were in Virginia. But it seems like an unforced error for anyone thinking of a future career in politics.

I DO think, however, that the other passages quoted by Drudge are nothing to get in a twist about. A little salacious, but so what? The fact is that soldiers in combat tend not to think about women in the most wholesome ways.

[Clarkie1]

55. He's writing about REALITY. The good, the bad, and the ugly. He's a GOOD writer! nt

[WestSeattle2]

38. Perhaps Mr. Allen would like to share some of

Lynne Cheney's fictional accounts of lesbian love in her published writings? Shotgun Dick apparently could care less about his wife's writings.

If Mr. Allen wishes to critique fictional writings, he might as well run the gamut. Someone should ask the Cheney's what their take is on Mr. Allen's campaign tactics.

[LostinVA]

40. Some very.... interesting posts on this thread

Methinks the kids at LIberty Baptist are bored this evening. Go do some volunteer work, kiddies.

[Sensitivity]

51. NO, ROVE knows that he is doing. Hope our side also have figured it out

IF YOU DON'T WIN, YOU CAN'T DO SHIT!

[Clarkie1]

56. Rove is an idiot. His whole strategy is about to fail big-time. nt

[Ninja Jordan]

57. Diaper-rash face getting desperate

dammit

[Catchawave]

59. ***DEBUNKED***

Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2491792

[Infinite Hope]

60. 2 Possibilities...

The most likely explanations are that it's 1)cultural or 2)a result of trauma from the war

Those are both reasonable for including that part in the book because it's showing the realities of war. Webb can come out and say "This shows the side effects of war....by the way we're in an unnecessary and illegal war as we speak where we've seen things like abu ghraib and other effects of trauma and stress both sexual and violent"....and then his book is a dead issue and Allen is left explaining the war and Abu Ghraib.

[Generic Brad]

61. Of course Allen is scared

He's a Republican. They're scared of everything, including their own shadows. Have they declared a War on Shadows yet?

[SaveElmer]

63. Good God...CALM DOWN...

It's like everyone is just waiting for the hammer to fall which will portend doom for us in two weeks. We're like a bunch of gun shy hound dogs scurrying away when a twig snaps!

This is gonna be a one day story....

It is gonna come out from the Webb people I am sure that these passages represent both cultural differences witnessed by Webb in VietNam, combined with incidents he witnessed while there. A simple reading of the book reveals it for what it is.

John McCain endorsed the book for Christ sakes...it will get some play in the media but will soon be revealed as a tempest in a teapot...

[proud patriot]

64. I'm locking this thread

This smear has been debunked :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2491792