Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Fock Carville, Begala and the cover up wing of the party. Time for Anti-Corruption

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 05:58 PM
Original message
Fock Carville, Begala and the cover up wing of the party. Time for Anti-Corruption
Edited on Tue Nov-07-06 06:00 PM by blm
and Open Government wing of the Democratic party to step up, be heard and take the LEAD for this nation.

It's absurd that Carville and Begala are on CNN with shocked faces because they never saw that corruption was an issue.


What good are DC "strategists" when they are SURPRISED to learn that Americans' biggest concern is CORRUPTION?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
gfnrob Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. First order of business:Clean House..at ALL costs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. If it be corruption, then Burns should go down in Montana.(eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Exactly - chalk it up.
If that's what's driving voters this year, Burns is history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I heard Begala say he wants to be buried in ???, Texas so he can
keep voting after he is dead.

They just perpetuate the MO that both sides do it and blow off talk of the Republican's voter suppression and fraud. Grrrrrr.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. They're so in love with their OWN voices and bank accounts they don't LISTEN
to the American people anymore.

They have distributed talking points against Kerry with their NBC and CNN newsroom buddies because they intend to take Kerry out for Hillary.

Tough cookies boys - you called the American people ALL WRONG - they are sick of the lies and the coverups.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Carville and Begala ARE f_____g idiots--and there are others, too........get rid of
'em all
NoFederales

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. Dean needs to weed out the spokespeople and groom some new ones.
Ones who know about the issues and ALL Democrats, not just those only schooled for 12 years in defending Clinton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. more effin bologna
They said they thought IRAQ would dominate, not that they didn't think corruption wasn't an issue.

Do you ever stop spinning to trash the people you hate?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. They ARE the cover up wing who worked AGAINST the anti-corruption Dems so
Edited on Tue Nov-07-06 06:42 PM by blm
deal with it.

Read the National Security Archives and understand there are Dems who work to expose corruption and Dems who have helped cover it up.

I side with those who investigate and expose corruption and know full well what Dems excel in that area and what Dems have FAILED in that area.

That's MY turf. And I really don't care about anything as much as I do about opening the books to the American people and CRUSHING BushInc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. STOP LYING -- deal with that !!!
If you want to start a thread talking about corruption, go for it. But don't start one based on something you've pulled entirely out of your ass. Nobody begrudges you the opportunity to puff yourself up, but it's inexcusable when you do it at the expense of others by lying about them. \

STOP LYING.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Baloney - Everyone knows Clinton covered up for Bush1 - his own book proves it
and the way Clinton handled CIA drugrunning proves it.

What you want is for people to ignore the truth so YOU can feel good about your loyalty.

Well that ain't happening here - not from me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Earth to blm.
I'm not taking the bait. You misrepresented what Begala and Carville said. You flat-out lied so you could launch into what you really want to talk about, and I called you on it.

If you want to talk about corruption, start another thread, or maybe your tag-team will be by directly to assist you in your poorly veiled charade.

In the meantime .... STOP EFFIN LYING.

I've got election returns to watch, infinitely more important than this same old crap from you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I didn't - they were surprised about corruption being a major issue - I WASN'T and haven't been for
Edited on Tue Nov-07-06 07:46 PM by blm
a long time.

They're surprised because they know THEY haven't been pushing the issue with their candidates - and those of us familiar with the truth about BushInc and how they got away for so long, know exactly why that is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Then go
watch them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. I could do better ...
... than about 2/3rds of the losers who call themselves "consultants". It's really pathetic, I think one reason our side has lost so much is the utter lameness of the advisors that our candidates hire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'll drink to that with you.
The media made most of these dummies, and it's about time they be demoted. Just because they learned to make big money doesn't mean they know the American people. Especially post 9-11 and post Katrina electorate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. THose two should be taken out to
the pasture and fed whatever Dean, Kerry, Conyers, and the rest of the clued in are munching on. :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. Their shocked because their candidate-Hillary isn't to choosey
where her money comes from.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I don't think Hill has corrupt money, she just shows no sign of wanting to open the books
on Bush2 the same way Bill wasn't interested in opening the books on Bush1.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. You & your books. How many thousands of times are you going to use that
issue in your feeble efforts to belittle the great Clinton legacy, all in a futile self-serving attempt at making Kerry come out better for it. Even John Kerry himself would be ashamed of the nonsense you spout 24/7.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I challenge you to argue with Robert Parry about TRUTH and COVERUP
Robert Parry: HEY DEMOCRATS, TRUTH MATTERS!
Hey, Democrats, the Truth Matters!
By Robert Parry
May 11, 2006

My book, Secrecy & Privilege, opens with a scene in spring 1994 when a guest at a White House social event asks Bill Clinton why his administration didn’t pursue unresolved scandals from the Reagan-Bush era, such as the Iraqgate secret support for Saddam Hussein’s government and clandestine arms shipments to Iran.

Clinton responds to the questions from the guest, documentary filmmaker Stuart Sender, by saying, in effect, that those historical questions had to take a back seat to Clinton’s domestic agenda and his desire for greater bipartisanship with the Republicans.

Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships.”

Clinton’s relatively low regard for the value of truth and accountability is relevant again today because other centrist Democrats are urging their party to give George W. Bush’s administration a similar pass if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress.

Reporting about a booklet issued by the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank of the Democratic Leadership Council, the Washington Post wrote, “these centrist Democrats … warned against calls to launch investigations into past administration decisions if Democrats gain control of the House or Senate in the November elections.”

These Democrats also called on the party to reject its “non-interventionist left” wing, which opposed the Iraq War and which wants Bush held accountable for the deceptions that surrounded it.

“Many of us are disturbed by the calls for investigations or even impeachment as the defining vision for our party for what we would do if we get back into office,” said pollster Jeremy Rosner, calling such an approach backward-looking.

Yet, before Democrats endorse the DLC’s don’t-look-back advice, they might want to examine the consequences of Clinton’s decision in 1993-94 to help the Republicans sweep the Reagan-Bush scandals under the rug. Most of what Clinton hoped for – bipartisanship and support for his domestic policies – never materialized.

‘Politicized’ CIA
After winning Election 1992, Clinton also rebuffed appeals from members of the U.S. intelligence community to reverse the Reagan-Bush “politicization” of the CIA’s analytical division by rebuilding the ethos of objective analysis even when it goes against a President’s desires.

Instead, in another accommodating gesture, Clinton gave the CIA director’s job to right-wing Democrat, James Woolsey, who had close ties to the Reagan-Bush administration and especially to its neoconservatives.

One senior Democrat told me Clinton picked Woolsey as a reward to the neocon-leaning editors of the New Republic for backing Clinton in Election 1992.

“I told that the New Republic hadn’t brought them enough votes to win a single precinct,” the senior Democrat said. “But they kept saying that they owed this to the editors of the New Republic.”

During his tenure at the CIA, Woolsey did next to nothing to address the CIA’s “politicization” issue, intelligence analysts said. Woolsey also never gained Clinton’s confidence and – after several CIA scandals – was out of the job by January 1995.

At the time of that White House chat with Stuart Sender, Clinton thought that his see-no-evil approach toward the Reagan-Bush era would give him an edge in fulfilling his campaign promise to “focus like a laser beam” on the economy.

He was taking on other major domestic challenges, too, like cutting the federal deficit and pushing a national health insurance plan developed by First Lady Hillary Clinton.

So for Clinton, learning the truth about controversial deals between the Reagan-Bush crowd and the autocratic governments of Iraq and Iran just wasn’t on the White House radar screen. Clinton also wanted to grant President George H.W. Bush a gracious exit.

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided,” Clinton explained in his 2004 memoir, My Life. “President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the (Iran-Contra) matter between him and his conscience.”

Unexpected Results
Clinton’s generosity to George H.W. Bush and the Republicans, of course, didn’t turn out as he had hoped. Instead of bipartisanship and reciprocity, he was confronted with eight years of unrelenting GOP hostility, attacks on both his programs and his personal reputation.

Later, as tensions grew in the Middle East, the American people and even U.S. policymakers were flying partially blind, denied anything close to the full truth about the history of clandestine relationships between the Reagan-Bush team and hostile nations in the Middle East.

Clinton’s failure to expose that real history also led indirectly to the restoration of Bush Family control of the White House in 2001. Despite George W. Bush’s inexperience as a national leader, he drew support from many Americans who remembered his father’s presidency fondly.

If the full story of George H.W. Bush’s role in secret deals with Iraq and Iran had ever been made public, the Bush Family’s reputation would have been damaged to such a degree that George W. Bush’s candidacy would not have been conceivable.

Not only did Clinton inadvertently clear the way for the Bush restoration, but the Right’s political ascendancy wiped away much of the Clinton legacy, including a balanced federal budget and progress on income inequality. A poorly informed American public also was easily misled on what to do about U.S. relations with Iraq and Iran.

In retrospect, Clinton’s tolerance of Reagan-Bush cover-ups was a lose-lose-lose – the public was denied information it needed to understand dangerous complexities in the Middle East, George W. Bush built his presidential ambitions on the nation’s fuzzy memories of his dad, and Republicans got to enact a conservative agenda.

Clinton’s approach also reflected a lack of appreciation for the importance of truth in a democratic Republic. If the American people are expected to do their part in making sure democracy works, they need to be given at least a chance of being an informed electorate.

Yet, Clinton – and now some pro-Iraq War Democrats – view truth as an expendable trade-off when measured against political tactics or government policies. In reality, accurate information about important events is the lifeblood of democracy.

Though sometimes the truth can hurt, Clinton and the Democrats should understand that covering up the truth can hurt even more. As Clinton’s folly with the Reagan-Bush scandals should have taught, the Democrats may hurt themselves worst of all when helping the Republicans cover up the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I challenge you to stop pasting the same old post more than a 1000 times
in your incessant efforts to belittle the great Clinton legacy for your self serving measures.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. You want to make the case that Clinton closing the books was the right thing to do in
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 12:49 PM by blm
front of the 9-11 families?

Have at it - you can practice on us here at DU. Craft a post where you challenge the premise of Parry's call for open government that exposes BushInc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Where did I say or imply that? Do you ever say ANYTHING accurate??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You insist Clinton had a great legacy - I insist that there was no legacy left standing BECAUSE
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 01:09 PM by blm
he made the decision to close the books.

BushInc DISMANTLED everything good Clinton did do because they were FREE and in power to do so....thanks to Clinton.

And the truth is only old and tired to those who want it to disappear without acknowledging it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. For the 2nd time, where did I say that Clinton's closing of the books was the right
thing to do? Nice try at deflecting the question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Nobody complained when Hillary donated money to Lamont's campaign
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. Well, I will give props to Begala for two things last night...
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 02:00 PM by skids
1) Calling Rush a "drug addled gasbag" on perhaps the most watched segment of CNN this year.

2) Showing off the fake "steele democrat" voters guides on air right in front of Bennet and that other pug.

Beyond that, never cared for him. But I did think those two things were good.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Clever banter is OK, but imagine "top strategists" for Dems not KNOWING that
the voters were angry about CORRUPTION in government?

That's my greater point than just my directed snit at the two of them.

It's their professional credentials that have taken a huge hit last night.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. I'm locking this thread
This has been worded in an inflammatory way and
it is attracting personal attacks .

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC