Dear Kerry Worshippers

[dionysus]

sincerely.

Just because we do not want him to be the 08 nominee does not mean that we have "bought into the RW spin" or "helped bury him".

For pete's sake we can like kerry and other candidates too.

And accusing people who don't agree with you as "blinded by MSM propaganda" is insulting.

Please chill the hell out, because you don't do Kerry favors with this.

[LittleClarkie]

1. I'm not a worshiper. I'm a minion.

:)

[dionysus]

2. lol

touche ;)

[TayTay]

9. A minion? Damn, I want to be a minion too!

Is there a club? A secret hand-shake? A super-secret tattoo or something?

Nobody ever tells me anything. I wanna be a minion too! What, did I miss the memo or something?

Damn. Well, I'm going to be pouting for the rest of the night.

[LittleClarkie]

12. Oh sorry dear. Didn't realize you'd missed the meeting.

We elected you grand poopah in your absense. Hope you don't mind.

[TayTay]

22. Oh, thank you for thinking of me.

Can I get the keys to the clubhouse? We were out of the good root beer last time and I want to make sure we are stocked up and ready to go.

Oooh, goody Grand Poobar of Kerry Minions of all DU! Wow! And my Mom said I'd never amount to anything. Boy, was she ever wrong. I'm a minion and I'm so proud.

[Vektor]

18. I had to restrain myself from my "usual" humor.

:-)

You know, I HAVE cleaned up my act a whole lot lately. I was about an inch from making a "slobbering apologist" joke.

But this is the new Vektor. Clean and spotless, pristine of mind.

Chaste.

:rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

33. Saving up the slobber for his birthday party?

So you can drool in person?

Going this year or no? I'm afraid I won't be there, again.

[Vektor]

38. A lady never drools...

at least not BLATANTLY. :-)

[Blaukraut]

40. what do ladies do?

Moisten their lips with tiny drops of glistening saliva? Hell, I drool. Remind me to bring a bib this year!

[Vektor]

42. Ewwww.

Ok, end of convo. Saliva totally grosses me out.

No drooling. Maybe eyelash batting. Much less messy. Though a contact lens could fly out...

[garthranzz]

76. No, no, you can't be a minion all by yourself

You need ten Jewish men to...what, oh, minyan? That's different. Never mind.

:)

[Old and In the Way]

25. I'm a bootlicker!

Or a Kerrybot....take your pick! :rofl:

[TayTay]

30. I was offered that job, but turned it down

Yuck. You go through a fortune in tooth paste. (Minions aren't paid a lot, certianly not enough for that.)

:rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

37. I've been trying to work my way up to Kerrybot

Damn glass ceiling.

[TayTay]

78. I knnow what you mean

I had originally applied for 'Love Slave,' but I never made it past the application:

Do you like Pina Colada's?
And taking walks in the rain?

Then there was something about dunes on Cape Cod. I had this bad skin rash at the time and I thought I would never make it past the first interview, so when I saw the opening in Minions, I took it. At least it has dental. I guess the KW's (Kerry Worshippers) get vision coverage. Wow!

[Blue_In_AK]

57. Another minion for Kerry...

[Clark2008]

3. ...

:popcorn:

[dionysus]

4. Hey, I like the guy

but some posters get real pissed if you don't bow down and annoint him the greatest politician ever. that's the whole point

[Clark2008]

5. I know... but I'm just waiting on them to unleash.

I like Kerry, too - but he's far from my first or second choice.

[wisteria]

46. I think that is obvious. No need to recount. n/t

[JetCityLiberal]

115. I like Clark

but too many of his 'supporters' on these forums don't help him AT ALL.

[LittleClarkie]

10. Some of us are just sick of being told he's through, is all

You don't have to love the guy. You don't even have to vote for the guy. But if one more person tells me to not waste my time because he's toast, I'm gonna plotz. We probably didn't need more than one thread telling us about the poll where he's dead last. We probably didn't need the thread saying that he boldly chose the blue tie over the red.

We're not looking for worship of the guy. But if we get baited, we take the bait. There's a difference between preferring something else, and posting threads about how he plagarized Clark, or how he's through, taking the word of the media when we hardly take their word for ANYTHING else.

Kinda see what I mean?

Not worshiping is one thing. Making fun of the dude is another.

[dionysus]

21. i voted for him and wrote letters

but certain posters will insult those who do not want him as the nom, tis the whole point.

[mitchtv]

29. But,but he's from the NORTHEAST

The shame of it all. He's an elitist, you know

[LittleClarkie]

34. I suppose he drinks lattes too.

The FIEND!

[digno dave]

144. He's not just a NORTHEASTERNER, he's a LIBERAL NE'er

not that there's anything wrong with that.
Irregardless, that's the issue, as far as i'm concerned...and that's why i can't support any of his national political aspirations.

[k_jerome]

6. I like Kerry. He had his shot. Time to move aside and...

let others do the same.

[zann725]

65. Not with wide-spread computer Election Fraud, he NEVER did.

And because he was NOT given a "fair election" (and TRUTHFUL results), as Gore wasn't either (FACT-BASED winner by popular vote)....Kerry does NOT have to "step aside." Nor should Gore.

But rather claim the place that was rightfully won, rightfully theirs, instead of present imposter holding The Throne...defiling our Bill of Rights.

[k_jerome]

69. he conceded. as did Gore. nt.

[Pawel K]

82. ding ding ding, we have a winner

sure there was election fraud, it was his damn fault for not standing up to it. I like him and think he should stay in congress for as long as Kennedy did, but he needs to let someone else run in 08 and I pray the person we elect in the primaries will not end up being a senator/congressman.

[CTyankee]

96. Nobody expected the Swift Boat smearing, altho we SHOULD

have expected some real resentment for his antiwar activities after he left the service. Honestly, some people never let that stuff die.

And he does come across as what he is: a northeast liberal. And he does have elite tastes because he is in that class and he doesn't affect an accent that is different from his own (altho I have noticed that he has dropped his Boston "a's" as in "How do you ahsk a man to be the lahst to die..."

And what about "who among us does not love Nascar?" My son in law, who worked for Kerry's campaign in Boston, loves that one! And he's a native Bostonian!

I love Kerry, but then I love men like him: intellectual, funny in a witty way, with highly cultivated tastes. You can't (cahn't) blame him for that. You just can't expect the rest of the country to like it so much, for their own reasons.

It's unfair, I know.

[LittleClarkie]

67. We'll see in the primaries. That is, if he runs

He still hasn't announced yet.

And I fail to see what's magical about new, and why someone who's "had their shot" can't try again. Where is the "one and done" rule written?

[k_jerome]

70. he certainly can try. it is his right. he will lose if he does. nt.

[geek tragedy]

7. I like him. I like a LOT of people who I don't believe

deserve consideration for the 2008 nomination.

[Vektor]

8. I think many of us are simply Kerry supporters...

and have graciously defended many other candidates from slander and smears while defending Kerry as well. There are a great number of Kerry supporters on this board who have done our best to promote unity, civil debate, and an all around pro-Dem message and have stood up for EVERYONE'S right to support whomever they choose.

I'm sure you did not mean to paint all Kerry supporters with the same broad brush, though, right?

[dionysus]

11. heck, i like Kerry myself!

but a quick peruse thru DU had people insulting people who don't want Kerry the 08 nominee as propaganda brainwashed fools, ect.

[LittleClarkie]

13. I was brainwashed into thinking Gore was a baffoon.

I was still a sheeple then. I know better now, and I know what the media can do. I kinda thought that was more the point.

[Vektor]

16. Yeah - I've seen way too many insults all over DU lately...

from all sides, and all angles. It sucks. We won the recent congressional elections. I'm pretty happy about that. I guess it's idealistic and lame of me, but I really wish I could see less infighting and more unity here. (I know, wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up faster.) :-)

I know we all have our own eccentricities, and that's fine, but some of the hate we spew at each other here on DU is worse that what we get thrown at us from those "other" sites.

It's disconcerting, really. :shrug:

[dionysus]

19. i like kerry myself

great man

does it mean i want him as the nominee? no

do i need another post saying he would have taken down the BFEE had not clinton covered for him, and if i like another candidate i am stupid\asshole?

no thanks :)

[Vektor]

20. Just do what I like to do.

Blame everything on "The Clenis."

It's the world's greatest all purpose scapegoat. The Clenis bombed the World Trade Center, ya know. ;-)

[elehhhhna]

80. Kerry woul dmake a SUPERB A.G. Period.

Let him do what he does best, which, btw, ain't campaigning, imo.

[madfloridian]

14. I just posted about what we are doing here.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/706

It is scary.

[dionysus]

17. i know and agre with you but

people are pushing their favorite candidate and tend to resort to calling people stupid or fooled by rw media if they disagree...

[madfloridian]

26. It would not be happening if people here were not helping ...

the media go after Kerry. Why are they doing it? Of course they are defending Kerry, he deserves to be defended. That poll has Bush as very popular...so bullshit.

I remember in 03 defending someone just as passionately.

[LittleClarkie]

35. Thank you Madflo

I appreciate your support. I don't understand why we can diss the media one minute, and take their shit as gospel truth the next when it suits our purposes.

Indeed, why would Bush be so popular in that poll? What is their normal track record in these things? I assume Cheney was in there too. And he came out ahead of Kerry as well? Bullshit indeed.

And you know I've got that someone's back if he needs it, against Carville and anyone else who would try to usurp him. Viva the 50 strategy!

[wisteria]

48. Thank you! n/t

[karynnj]

55. Thanks madfloridian

Thanks for helping explain why we are defensive. We are simply making the case that the study has flaws and that the historical series does not match the trend in other polls - making it suspect.

Also, Quinipeac has produced crazy results for NJ - showing Kean ahead (when he wasn't), had Corzine neck and neck with Forrester going into the primaries - which Corzine wone by about 12 points.

[LittleClarkie]

56. That's what I keep asking for, but wasn't getting. Thanks.

I wondered what their track record is. Sounds right-leaning.

[WildEyedLiberal]

71. Thank you, so much

It really sucks to be the object of scorn simply for defending a noble man who is unfairly smeared by the cowardly media and powers that be. I understand it all so painfully clearly now.

They can laugh at us, Mad, but they won't win. We're too damn stubborn to just go away - and so are those noble guys we happen to support.

[WildEyedLiberal]

72. delete dupe

[wisteria]

47. OMG, I just posted a poll using that very premise. n/t

[elocs]

15. I don't want anybody, anybody who voted to fund the Iraq war

and now has to explain away their original decision, making it look like they have their finger in the wind. I would rather have a candidate who voted "no" or who did not support the invasion and was not in a position to cast a vote.

[AlamoDemoc]

23. We have had many here at DU that jump on the MSM polling that said Sen. Kerry stands no chance in 08

Many have also criticized him on a gaffe he made during campaign and said "it takes away many democrats from their election chances" accusing him 'disaster' and not to campaign for the democrats.

There said, and done! I wish many here would go back to their core-link to what matters to liberalism and resume their thinking that they have had with Kerry in 2004….the support and gentle manuscript he has given them to fight back then continued on....he campaigned on behalf of many democrats corner-to-corner in America raising money and galvanizing support for democratic candidates that resulted Democratic house leadership.

No one can blame Kerry on 2004...as we are to celebrate in 2007.

on edit: "many have said not to campaign for the democrats'

[dionysus]

24. that's not the point

Kerry busted his ass in this election.

I am sick of certain posters, and you know who they are, who rip anyone who doesn't have him as the first and only choice.

[AlamoDemoc]

27. Of course I know my position on Kerry. I think you misread my post. n/t

[Dinger]

28. A Favorite Pic Of Mine Showing Kerry On The '04 Campaign Trail:

I don't even think a caption is necessary. I love this pic!

[AlamoDemoc]

31. your caption shows Kerry's humility...thanks

[Major Hogwash]

32. Wow.

How quick we forget.

That is an outstanding picture.

[Dinger]

36. Thanks. I Took It In Green Bay, Wi. - May 27th 2004

Which reminds me, I should scan the autographed ticket I got and post it here tomorrow.
**Reminder to self: DO THIS! *Notice - Feingold there too, as well as Kerry's "Band of Brothers".

(*Story: I was with my son, and as Kerry walked around the front (where I was), I stuck it out and said "Senator Kerry would you sign this so I can show it to my 4th graders tomorrow?" And snap! It happened just like that!
A moment I will never forget.

[Dinger]

154. Here It Is:

[LittleClarkie]

41. I was here, in Milwaukee, the day before the election

somewhere behind him.

[wisteria]

50. Sweet n/t

[MirrorAshes]

39. I truly believe in Kerry... still got my sticker on my car... BUT

I feel like the stars are just aligned against him. Does he deserve any of it? No, aside from the legitimate criticism that he has a problem communicating with regular folks. He could have been a truly great president, I have no doubt that he is qualified and able to steer this country in the right direction with his judgement and experience. Unfortunately, though, he is not an agile candidate, and blown out of proportion as it was, the joke set him back even further. 2008 just isn't in the cards for him. He just needs time. Look at Gore--in 2000 he was successfully marginalized by the right, mocked and outcast with the help of a complicit media. But now... notice that when they talk about Gore, they aren't talking about how he "invented the internet" anymore. He's changed, evolved, in the past few years and now has an aura about him that is genuinely intimidating to the right. You can tell they are scared of him now. They need to be scared of whoever our next candidate is--and they aren't scared of Kerry. They are still kicking him while he's down. He needs time to pick himself up again first before he decides to get back into the fight.

[LittleClarkie]

43. Attorney General then?

I'll take what I can get, personally. If he doesn't run, or if he doesn't make it if he runs, I'll be lobbying for the above.

[fujiyama]

120. He'd make a good AG

or even Sec. of State.

[wisteria]

51. I have my sticker also, and I believe that sometimes it is darkest

before the dawn. I have not given up hope.

[LittleClarkie]

52. This is my sticker

[katsy]

44. It's not always about liking or not liking a candidate, never about worship.

MSM is like a 3-ring circus always promoting corporate right wing agenda for the most part (some notable exceptions). They slammed Kerry as a flip-flopper, swiftboated him and smeared him mercilessly before the election, even to a greater degree than they stomped on President Gore (sorry, he's still my Prez).

He still won 59 million votes. Whether he can build on that is the real issue. Whether he'll fight harder and rally more voters in 08 will be apparent in the Presidential primaries. I'll support him if he can. I won't hate him if he can't rally the votes.

That's not hero worship. Hero worship on bloody alters are a republic (he he) trait. To characterize people who support Kerry or defend him vehemently as "hero worshippers" is to play into the MSM's devious trend of making elections into some sort of game, a popularity contest, an intellectually & morally bankrupt exercise, a twisted soap opera. I don't care to play that way and I voted for Kerry/Edwards in 04 because of my deep respect for his positions and confidence in his leadership qualities. I still respect him and it boggles my mind when I read snarky remarks about him here. I'm not referring to anyone that simply states a preference for another candidate or expresses a lack of confidence in Kerry's ability to win. This isn't a MSM 3-ring circus.

I support him because of his voting record:

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103

Kerry would make a fine leader and doesn't deserve to be disparaged. There isn't one elected Representative or Senator or President (past, present or future) for that matter that hasn't pissed me off for voting a certain way and Kerry is no different. But taken as a whole, Kerry has a decent voting record except for voting on giving that evil monkey the power to make war on Iraq. And even so, I believe the Democrats in general were lied to much as the rest of the country.

I respect Kerry. I adore Gore. My dream team Gore/Kerry (or Gore + anyone for that matter). IMO, they were both cheated out of what was rightfully theirs.

[LittleClarkie]

49. Well said. And I like Gore too. It was terrible what they did to him in 2000

When I was a sheeple, I believed it too. Thank God for Daily Howler, a good resource for setting oneself straight about media bullshit.

[katsy]

53. Can you imagine...

any one not voting for a leader because he appears "stiff". Mocking him because he is an intellectual?

MSM bites. They are idiots with an agenda... corporatism. I despise them.

So we get a kinda' casual guy. A guy ya' wanna have a beer with. A plain spoken (5th grade level) man's manno.

Just because this monkey is a murderous criminal is okay 'cause ya'll know someone you swilled beer with that was just like him. Better him than someone you can't relate to... like an honorable stiff guy with a freaking brain who doesn't engage in fuzzy math! :sarcasm:

arrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Blue_In_AK]

59. My 21-year-old daughter asked me today...

"How did George Bush get to be president? He's so DUMB." I said, "Yes, dear, he's as dumb as they come, but apparently America is full of dumb people who wanted to be led by someone as clueless as they are."

Give me a president with a brain, please.

[katsy]

62. It's coming back to bite them...

just wait until they can't afford health insurance or their job is outsourced or they lose their house. Maybe they'll lose a loved one in Iraq (though I wish that on no one).

Maybe all that "fuzzy math" is becoming crystal clear for them.

Maybe that "lock-box" on SS funds isn't funny anymore. They used their newly found math skills and calculated their loss by privatization and figured out how much those "managment fees" are really going to cost them.

Yep. Dumb and greedy. A disasterous recipe for our side.

[dionysus]

93. if you don't insult others for NOT supporting kerry, the post

isn't directed at you;)

[katsy]

148. Yeah, I know...

Sometimes I have to put my thoughts in writing just to work through a problem.

Insulting one another isn't healthy and I understand your point.

:thumbsup:

[wisteria]

45. Then you should be calling out the media on this smear and

perhaps some "others" who are working this bullsh*t. These types of smears can happen to your favorite candidate too. NO DEM IS IMMUNE- except for now one.

[dionysus]

86. I am not talking about the media smear.

I am talking about the people who throw around names and become offensive, not because he's being criticised, but for simly not agreeing that he is the only hope.

[Mass]

97. Could you please link to such a post. In all honesty, I cannot think

to more than one or two DUers who would repeatedly post things like that, so I wonder why you thought useful to make a thread attacking broadly Kerry's supporters.

[dionysus]

107. this is meant not for all supporters, as is pretty obvious

is meant for the handful of high profile supporters who feel it necessary to bash people for not sharing the same favorite candidate

[Mass]

134. Well, you still did not answer my question. Why go after Kerry supporters who do that and not

against other supporters who do that. Why the focus on Kerry's supporters?

[rockymountaindem]

54. I see where you're coming from

And I've seen some things in Kerry threads that may have crossed a line, to the point where I thought that "if that post were directed at me, I'd be mad". However, I think this is the problem that gets Kerry supporters like myself riled up...

When people on DU have bad things to say about Kerry, a lot of times that comes out in the form of smears drawn up by the right wing. Specifically that Kerry is boring, a "flip flopper", "insulted the troops", "voted for the yellow tie before he voted against it" etc. The problem is that Kerry was the Democratic standard bearer in '04, and like it or not, the smears against him were meant to disparage all of us who supported Kerry (whether because we really like him or a lot or even if we were just ABB). When the RW media said "Kerry's a flip flopper", what they meant to say is "all Dems are flip floppers" or "Dems aren't 'real Americans' because their candidate can't connect with people". So when we see DUers posting smears like that directed at Kerry, we (or at least I) think about how the conservatives are putting words in DUers mouths (bad) and we remember how those attacks hurt us all back in 2004.

Furthermore, you rarely if ever see the right wing attacks being used against other candidates on DU. You'll never see anybody here say that "Clark almost started WWIII in Kosovo" or that "Clark is responsible for the bombing of the Chinese embassy" or other lies about Clark. You'll never see a DUer make fun of Gore for sighing in his debate with Bush or for "claiming he invented the internet", and so on. The only candidate who seems to attract right wing attacks here on DU is Kerry. That's why sometimes Kerry supporters react harshly. It's not, IMHO, against people who just differ in opinion with Kerry, but rather with those who continue to use dishonest right wing ammunition to attack a Democrat. If someone told a Deaniac on DU, in all seriousness, "Dean is a crazy latte drinking, New York Times reading, Volvo driving, insane screaming whacko who doesn't represent the Democratic party", I think they'd have every right to get mad; because that's the right wing talking right there, and a parrot of baseless smears used against him in 2004.

I hope this post makes some sense.

[katsy]

58. Well said.

:applause:

Remember the constant barrage of attacks on Dean because of the "Dean scream"?

MSM will attack any Democratic nominee for President no matter who it is.

Gore (if he runs) will once again be called the stiff tree-hugging father of the internet intellectual with an understanding that math isn't as fuzzy as that coon tail on some neandrethal's rear view mirror.

Senator Clinton will be smeared because big dawg may take advantage of some intern in the oval office.

Barack will be smeared as a some corporate sellout type guy who's clueless about _________ fill in the blank.

Just look at how they're deviously chipping away at Speaker Pelosi! "Hoyer won, getting off on the wrong foot, sending the fashion police to chatter about her wardrobe. HEY! Name one fucking male senator or representative to whom MSM sent the fashion police out after. And the repubics had their own election for minority leader... someone won, someone lost. Big fucking deal. But noooooo... when it's Speaker Pelosi, Hoyers win is reason to question her leadership. She's a girrrrrrl.... let's check out her wardrobe.

MSM ever discuss Senator Kerry's voting record as a whole? Nahhhhh... flip-flop flip-flop flip-flop flip-flop flip-flop flip-flop. Has MSM ever once discussed the repubic's flip-flops? Nahhhhhh.

Wait. It'll happen to all Democrat candidates. Wait until you come to DU to escape MSM and you get the same MSM shit thrown around.

[LittleClarkie]

60. Or call Dean a waffler. Thanks for expressing it eloquently

That's about it.

Somebody called him Lurch today. That's not something I want to see on a Dem board. I got enough of that from the Freepers in 2004, when I used to post at ezboard.

[janx]

126. The RW smears have indeed been used against other

candidates on DU.

They come from television, and DUers watch a lot of political television, hence... ;-)

[jgraz]

61. K&R

:applause:

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

68. hmmm...the above post just says "ignore" -- I do hope I'm not missing any incisive commentary

Oh my...I'm sure there's just loads and loads of intelligent content there...

[zann725]

64. We're NOT Worshippers. That would be Shrub-blind fans. Kerry supporters are

intelligent, and know the Best Man for the job when they see it.

And obviously bright enough to know when MSM and Powers-that-Be are trying to hide Kerry, shame Kerry, disgrace Kerry from public favor, and possible '08 candidacy.

If one TRULY wants to check out JK's popularity, one only has to visit the DU Groups/Democrats/Kerry Group...and compare the number of posts, compared to ALL other Dem candidate groups there. JK has MANY TIMES OVER the input, support than even the "allegedly" more popular Hilary, Obama, etc. candidates who have mere handfuls of posts on their sites, compared to the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of JK site posts.

#20 in popularity?! Right, sure. Whatever the foolish choose to believe.

[LittleClarkie]

66. Karyn had a good point upthread. She pointed out the history of the poll in question

Quoting her:

"Also, Quinipeac has produced crazy results for NJ - showing Kean ahead (when he wasn't), had Corzine neck and neck with Forrester going into the primaries - which Corzine wone by about 12 points."

If we wouoldn't take Quinipeac's word in other races, why would they suddenly become credible now? Because people like the results this time? That's a lousy way to decide if a poll is accurate.

[dionysus]

91. this post is for those kerry supporters who feel that they must

shout down people just for supporting someone else over him.

i am not talking about people defending him from innacurate criticism.

and if you read enough DU it should be very clear what i am talking about.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OneBlueSky]

74. Al Gore won (and was denied) the presidency before John Kerry . . .

won (and was denied) the presidency, so he should have first dibs . . . also, we desperately need a strong environmentalist in the White House, for the sake of the nation AND the planet . . .

I learned all I need to know about the real Al Gore when he sent two jetliners to New Orleans at his own expense to bring critically ill patients to Nashville for life-saving treatment -- and sought no press or accolades when doing so . . . THAT'S the kind of man we need for our candidate, and for our president . . .

[Eurobabe]

75. HIT THE IGNORE THREAD BOX

That's what I just did, because I am sick to death of reading all Kerry threads.

Ferchrissakes, if I didn't know any better, I'd swear Theresa Heinz Kerry is on here defending JFK!

[cleveramerican]

77. Kerry has himself to blame

the only unforgivable sin in politics is looking stupid too often.

[Joe Chi Minh]

83. Well,if I were you, I'd keep off this board.

[jgraz]

111. Totally out of line

Please quit telling people to get off the board just because they disagree with you.

[TankLV]

150. Ah - a good example of what we're talking about. Just Perfect...

[jgraz]

110. I don't think he looked stupid, just not comfortable in his own skin

You never get the impression you're seeing the real, unfiltered Kerry when he's talking. I can see why people didn't trust him. Especially after he betrayed our trust following the stolen election.

BTW, don't let the Kreepers drive you off the board. You have as much right to be here as they do.

[TayTay]

128. Hahahahaha!

Who is driving people off of a thread with over 126 response so far.

Funny!

[Mass]

79. Only one question. Why do people who think Kerry does not stand a chance spend

so much time bashing Kerry supporters and Kerry himself. You need to be two to tango. Most of the outrageously pro-Kerry threads would sink if some rabid anti-Kerry people did not answer. You may not be one of them, but they are some here that are as much to blame as the people you are talking about here.

Just ignore the threads, put them in ignore and move on.

If he is as irrelevant as so many people think, why do people speak about him so much? Why do yu even bother starting this thread?

[dionysus]

89. it is annoying than whenever people support a candidate,

certain fanatics of another candidate have to pop in and tell them that they are wrong, only candidate _______ is any good, you're dumb for not agreeing, ect ect.

it happens with other candidates too.

[Mass]

95. SAo, why do you go after Kerry supporters if, as you say rightly, if happens

with other candidates? This is what bothers me in your OP.

I do not like Edwards and I can tell you that I have been literally agressed by some Edwards supporters (not all, just some) because I do not like him.

I have seen Clark supporters (once again a few, not others) attacking Edwards supporters who attack Clark supporters ...

I have seen a lot of people telling us that Obama was the only one, that Feingold was the only one, that (feel the blank) was the only one.

But apparently, your issue is with Kerry supporters. So, here is the question I have asked to the very few non Kerry supporters to have felt offended because we support Kerry (and once again, it is only a handful of people on DU), why does it bother you when Kerry supporters think their guy is the center of conspiracy, and not when it comes to another person's supporter?

[zulchzulu]

81. I find a lot of Kerry bashers just can't get a grip on the facts...

I SUPPORT Kerry.

I also have done my homework on his career and understand that people will try to tear him down at any cost with fairly inconsequential accusations and downright lies.

I support other candidates as well and know that if they are the frontrunner, they WILL get the same treatment that Kerry has gotten. If anyone thinks that the MSM would not try to tear down their favorite candidate and actually take "clues" from the GOP bat cave, then they have lot to learn. You name the candidate and I can tell you exactly what the GOP will use to attack them...and the MSM will swallow it up and repeat it over and over again.

I think there are people here who support Kerry that actually understand what is happening. They offer a defense of any accusation and it's usually met with Repig talking points... if you don't want to listen, there is nothing anyone can do for you.

[Joe Chi Minh]

84. A very insightful post.

[dionysus]

88. don't treat me like i am ingorant, i am not bashnig Kerry

i am complaining about those who shove him down your throat and ridicule you if you have a different first choice. nowhere will you see me criticising him.

[Mass]

90. There may be two or three people like that on DU. There are however

many who are ridiculing me because it is my first choice. You may not be one of them, but they are there, be sure of that, and I do not see you going after that.

[dionysus]

103. I will not ridicule you for your choice. I proudly voted for the man.

I have the bumpersticker on my car to this day. This post isn't addressed to all the Kerry supporters, just those who treat the supporters of other candidates like crap. I haven't seen you do it, so the OP is not intended for you.

If someone is pushing for a candidate, insulting those that disagree may feel good but it will backfire and doesn't win people over.

For example Gore is my first choice (even tho he probably isn't even running). But I wouldn't go and call someone stupid if they had a different preference than I do!

If you were around for primary 03 supporters of lots of different candidates were doing it. It's rather silly and counterproductive if you ask me.

peace

[Mass]

135. Was I talking about you? Clearly not, but I was asking why you chose

to criticize the supporters of one person and not the supporters of other people.

I do not disagree with your analyse. I just disagree with the singling of one group of supporters to the exclusion of others.

[Parche]

85. kerry

He is my choice

This was the same thing that happened in 2004
and he turned out to be the nominee.

He will make a fantastic President

KERRY/CLARK 2008

[dionysus]

87. if you are not one of the people who insult others

for having different preferences, then this post was not directed at you.

[madfloridian]

92. The term is offensive....just as much as "Dean worshippers" was.

How about "Clark worshippers"? Lots of them here.

Too late for us "Dean worshippers", he is changing things in another role now....the first one was closed to him.

[LittleClarkie]

94. I'm almost glad, I hope you don't mind me saying, that he is where he is.

He's changing the party so that Dems can win. We needed that. Do you think that he still wants to be president at some point in the future?

[madfloridian]

98. That really doesn't matter, does it?

The decisions are made at other levels.

[dionysus]

100. Notice I said Worshipper, not "supporter", there is a difference.

candidate supporters will say positive things about their candidate and defend them from inaccurate criticisms or swiftboating.

candidate "worshippers" will attack other candidates and their supporters, deriding and insulting people who do not agree that their candidate is the the only choice and anyone that does not agree is stupid.

you know exactly who these posters are, as they did and to some extent continue to, do it to you.

peace

[jgraz]

113. Well said

Sadly, a quick check of the Kerry forum shows that we still have miles to go in the area of mature, adult conversations.

[Blaukraut]

114. self delete

on edit; Just not worth it

[jgraz]

116. See? Learning can be fun!

[Blaukraut]

121. too bad you won't take your own advice and learn something n/t

[jgraz]

122. Yeah, I'm slow that way

[TayTay]

123. For God's sake, the next time you come over, phone first

Do I show up at your house without calling? No, I do not. Common courtesy dictates that you give some advance notice before you come over to someone's place and start trashing it.

If we knew you were coming, we would done some cleaning, put all the wonky threads out in front, make a nice cup of tea for you and so forth. How utterly rude.

So, where do you sit and talk with friends and share jokes, wonk and policy arguments. I should like to go over and see the place.

[jgraz]

131. Sweetie, either add to the debate or crawl back the Kerry Forum

This group stalking is starting to bore me. Please just stick to your first love, I'm spoken for.

[LittleClarkie]

132. Add to the debate? How was a comment on the goings on in the Kerry forum

adding to the debate.

And indeed, announce yourself first. Some of us might be nekkid.

(btw, it's not stalking, it's spoofing.

[jgraz]

136. Because a quick browse of the Kerry forum is all you need to support the OP

You guys want to have your Kerry lovefest, knock yourselves out. But if you want to use to forum to run down other posters and accuse DU members of being freepers, then you have zero right to complain when people call you on it.

And BTW, quit playing the fucking gatekeeper on the general forums. All of us have a right to be here, and, in case you haven't noticed, most of us are getting bored with your childish bullshit.

[LittleClarkie]

137. Are you the key master?

:D

I don't know WHAT you're talking about. Tay is doing a pretty good job of keeping things light, and I'm joining her.

A quick look at my posting history will tell you that I defend many of our leaders, not just Kerry. I generally try to be Unity Gal. So bitch at someone else, if you would, dear.

If the mods have a problem with our behavior, I'm sure we'll hear. Until then, we've as much right as anyone else to be wherever we see fit.

FYI, the OP wasn't talking about all Kerry supporters, just a certain number who can be a tad annoying (as can a few of the supporters of almost any candidate). She's made that pretty clear throughout the thread.

Gatekeeping?

[jgraz]

138. Zoooool

OK, I'll buy it. It's been a bit difficult to tell "light" from "nasty" lately.

[LittleClarkie]

139. Heh, that's the spirit

:D

[AtomicKitten]

141. watch your tail, cowboy

[jgraz]

142. lol

Don't worry, I still want the Kerry Campaign to dry up and go away.

[LittleClarkie]

143. He's a nimble little minx though

So you never know.

[Alexander]

99. Kerry should've brought up BCCI and Iran-Contra. He didn't. That's Kerry's fault.

The American voters could've had an image of the Bush cabal as hopelessly corrupt for generations and Kerry as the white knight on a horse riding in to fix all the corruption and make it right.

Kerry had a lot to brag about in 2004, and unfortunately the only thing he could muster up the courage to talk about was his Vietnam service record over 30 years ago.

Kerry only has himself to blame for that mistake.

[dionysus]

101. That is true but is not at all the point of this post...

People seem to be sidestepping the real issue here. This is not a Kerry sucks post. I voted for him once and will do so again if he is the nominee. However, he is not my first choice.

What I am talking about is the small group of people, not to be named here, but people know exactly who they are, who will insult and trash those who do not agree with them that Kerry is the best thing since sliced bread, calling them "brainwashed by the MSM" or what have you.

It is not good when anyone does this with their favorite candidate. Not only does it make the people who say stuff like that look like major jerks, it doesn't reflect in a positive light on the candidate they are trying to help.

Do some of the people reading this thread not see what I am talking about, or are they purposely avoiding the issue?

This has NOTHING to do with the media hit-job on Kerry, it's about people being unnecessarily nasty to people who have different points of view.

[Alexander]

105. Yes, and that's nothing new.

The Clarkies attack anyone who dares question their god. The Obama and Hillary supporters love to brand anyone with a different opinion as "racist" and "sexist".

On the legal drinking age issue, one lovely individual accused anyone in disagreement of being "for drunk driving".

There are people like this in every camp. I'm for Gore but realize that he might prefer not to run at all, and so of course I have a Plan B candidate in that event. I also realize the man has faults, but that most of them have been corrected at this point.

When support of a candidate turns into hero worship, that's when the irrational behavior and ad hominem attacks start. A glance at FR will reveal what I mean - they treat Bush like he's a god over there.

[WildEyedLiberal]

112. The point is - you are ONLY attacking Kerry's followers

When you know good and well, and have admitted as such in your various posts, that there are at least as many partisans for other candidates who are as intolerable of other opinions.

There are, at most, three or four - at MOST - Kerry supporters who I've seen go negative on another candidate or his/her supporters purely because they think Kerry is the best. But you know what? EVERY candidate has at least three or four partisans who become vicious to anyone who dares suggest a preference for another candidate than their chosen one. There are a small handful of Clark, Obama, Gore, Clinton, and Edwards supporters who do exactly what you are accusing the "Kerry worshipers" of doing.

So it's really, really insulting and disingenuous of you to single out only Kerry people in your post when you know good and well that there are plenty of DUers who are divisive and combative to anyone who disagrees with them, and the majority of them aren't Kerry people at all.

I have been attacked far more often for supporting Kerry than I have ever seen anyone on DU attacked for NOT supporting Kerry. I've been attacked by Hillary partisans, extreme far leftists, DLCers, you name it - just because I'm "stupid enough" to support Kerry and defend him when those people, in an attempt to take him out, start repeating right-wing smears. Yes, I'm going to respond when I see DUers parroting word-for-word the latest Limbaugh/Rove attack line on Kerry. Where is your post calling THOSE people out? Maybe more people would take this post seriously if it was actually about "a small group of people who attack anyone who doesn't think ____ candidate is the best thing since sliced bread," and not a very obvious and pointed attack on specifically one group of DUers, a very small percentage of whom actually engage in that behavior. As it is, this post is flamebait because you are referring to at most three or four people and using them to paint all Kerry supporters with a broad brush.

FYI, if Kerry supporters have been agitated recently, it's because a LOT of DUers are gleefully repeating word for word the MSM's hit jobs on Kerry about the "joke" and the "poll." Isn't it funny how the MSM is excoriated here when they are whoring for Bush, but when they're attacking Kerry or someone else the mob at DU decides they don't want to run for president, their word is gospel.

[dionysus]

117. My my, strike a nerve did I?

By reading my posts on this thread you know that I am not painting "all Kerry supporters with a broad brush"... why are you so upset? Perhaps you're complicit in this? Why are you so insulted? Apparently you took the post very seriously because it seems to vex you so.

BTW your slip is showing.

[WildEyedLiberal]

147. What the hell is your post supposed to mean?

Please, if I'm complicit, please provide links to any posts where I excoriate any other DUer for preferring another candidate. I eagerly await your response.

Meanwhile, it's really rich that you imply that Kerry supporters can't take any criticism, yet your every response to criticism of this OP has been hostile and rude. Maybe you should pull out the beam from your own eye before you criticize a speck in another's.

Please answer my question: why is your post directed solely at Kerry supporters when by your own admission you have observed this supposed behavior in other candidates' supporters?

If you cannot answer that question honestly, then I will correctly infer that you have an anti-Kerry agenda. If you don't like that inference, you need to do a hell of a lot better than attacking every Kerry supporter you see to prove me wrong.

[blm]

102. Dem spokespeople wouldn't support those attacks - they were still Clinton's team

then along with the DNC. Bring up IranContra and BCCI and it exposes Clinton as the key person who covered up for Bush1 on the outstanding matters involved. The Dem powerstructure would have pulled out completely from even a show of support for Kerry.

It also complicated matters that Saint Ronnie had died and the media spent a month putting him up on a pedestal.

Read this and you'll see how big a deal it was that Clinton covered up for Bush1.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[Alexander]

104. The two scandals could've been brought up without mentioning Clinton...

And St. Ronnie's teflon would've come right off had Kerry discussed what he did to bring down corruption in the 1980s.

Even a vague general statement, like "I fought corruption in the 1980s" or "You heard about Iran-Contra and BCCI because of me" would've worked wonders.

Quit making excuses.

[blm]

106. He did do that in Sept 2004. We had threads going on that speech because we had

been waiting to hear it here at DU. After he brought it up, no media followed up on that aspect of his speech.


Kerry COULD have done it, but without a strong backup from spokespeople willing to discuss it with any knowledge or detail it was not going to counter a month of eulogizing Saint Ronnie.

What I KNOW about the future is that ALOT of the Clinton protection has disappeared, Clintons no longer run the DNC, and Kerry has no reason to withhold ANYTHING.

[Alexander]

108. With the anti-corruption wave going on, it would've been a good idea.

During the debates, we heard nothing.

During the convention speech, we heard nothing.

If Kerry's too afraid to point to his real successes, he and his followers shouldn't be surprised when the masses aren't enthusiastic about him.

[blm]

109. I felt it was a sure thing, too - but he is the one who would've faced it alone

with every DNC spokesperson being told by Clinton to say "Poor Kerry must be breaking down from the pressure of the campaign" - "there is no there there, and in fact, BCCI was so unimportant it was never even included in Clinton's book."

At that point Kerry would've been battling Clinton and Bush machine. You and I would have been in the peanut gallery posting about the unfairness of it all.

[Alexander]

146. You don't know that. Especially if he brought it up during the debates.

Then post-debate (let's face it, people watch the debates, not the post-debate spin), voters would've been given very good reasons to vote for Kerry.

1) Mentioning Iran-Contra and its association with Bush Sr. would've reminded people of the rampant corruption throughout the Republican party, and would've planted seeds of doubt in people's minds about the honesty and integrity of Bush Jr. (after all, he did bring his daddy's buddies to the White House)

2) Kerry connecting himself to the publicity of either one of these scandals would've countered the claim that he "didn't do anything" in the Senate, would've given him a clean and untarnished image, and associated him with the "whistleblowers" that tend to make the cover of TIME magazine. People love whistleblowers, unless they themselves are corrupt.

Again, the debates would've been the perfect time to bring this stuff up. A national audience would see it, there wouldn't have been much time left to spin it against Kerry, and Bush's honesty ratings would likely have tanked due to guilt by association.

[zulchzulu]

119. I have Kerry on video discussing that very issue...

Granted, the speech wouldn't have made it on the MSM news since Michael Jackson was caught playing with himself or something...these stories are what Americans want to be immediately informed about.

:sarcasm:

[LittleClarkie]

125. They wouldn't have understood it anyway, poor stupid bastards

Best off just showing them what they can digest. Maybe Shrum was right. People were too dumb to know about the best part of Kerry's portfolio. It might have confused them. Good thing Michael Jackson took one for the team that week and gave the people something to gawp at.

:sarcasm:

[Alexander]

145. Why not bring it up during the debates?

Then we wouldn't need to rely on the MSM. But Kerry was mum on those scandals during the time when it would've been most helpful to talk about them.

[fujiyama]

118. Kerry is a good guy

and his politics are closely aligned with my own in most ways.

But I think he's a better statesman and politician than he is a politician. He makes a good senator, and would make a great president, but I just don't see him having what it takes to get there.

[lillilbigone]

129. What's funny is you're saying you like him but he's not 'electable'

which is the opposite of one of the common anti-Kerry memes: that he only won the nomination because people thought he was 'electable'.

[AtomicKitten]

124. You have reasonable cause for your OP

... in spite of the denials from those you are speaking of.

I was news-cruising this evening and Jack Cafferty made a crack about Al Gore having no personality. That most certainly is one the stock cracks about him. I laughed.

And then it occurred to me that had something similar been said about the subject of the OP, the usual suspects would have started threads quacking about it, about what an a-hole Cafferty is for saying it, how the media is out to get him, yada, yada, yada.

Been there, done that a hundred times already.

The OP has it exactly right.

[dionysus]

127. Thanks!

[election_2004]

130. And while we're at it: Dear Hillary Worshippers....

Just because we don't want your queen to be the Democratic presidential nominee doesn't mean we are "sexist, right-wing enablers."

[dionysus]

153. i could have switched out Kerry with Hillary or Barak in the OP

and it would be just as relevant.

[mtnsnake]

133. hear, hear!

Amen, bro

[RoyGBiv]

140. Dear Candidate Worshipers,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2992735&mesg_id=2992735

[TankLV]

149. Couldn't agree with you more...

The Kerrybots are very annoying...

[wisteria]

151. Well, we don't mean to be. We just are so susportive and protective of this wonderful man.

He gets unfairly kicked around her a lot so we are only defending him and his record.
He really is a great, great man.

[dionysus]

152. i will say again i did not refer to you specifically.

i had never seen you participate in the stuff i mentioned.

this post wasn't meant to alienate everyone who likes him.

[AtomicKitten]

155. exhibit A

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2989538&mesg_id=2989538

[dionysus]

157. hmmm

wery interesting

[wyldwolf]

156. Take out "Kerry" and insert "Dean" and you have a stronger case

[dionysus]

158. I saw some of that, but not since the 03 primaries

lately i see it with kerry tho

[wyldwolf]

160. It goes on here at DU daily

[izzybeans]

159. Do we really need two long years of this shit?

[seabeyond]

161. "worshipper" wasnt meant to inflame either? and who are you saying to chill out

the purpose of the post is to denigrate, from the very beginning with subject head. right.... youmight want to chill out a bit, or at least be a little honest.